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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
that in the event that I get my VBAC, I dont want the baby removed from my chest after birth? As in, baby comes out gets set on my chest, and me to tell the nurses "dont touch him/her"? Cause I know they just love to take the baby to the warmer, and such. Im not letting them give eye goop, or the vitamin k, or hep shots....so I believe there is no reason for them to take him/her to the warmer. I know the baby can be kept warm with my body heat....so I dont know what other excuses they can come up with.<br><br>
Now I know in the event of a problem, with breathing or something, then I will allow it, but otherwise I dont want it.
 

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Do you have a birth plan written up?<br>
Write one, and put this as well as any other concerns/stipulations/concerns<br>
that you have in it. Make sure that it gets into your file and bring extra copies to the hospital.<br><br>
HTH and GL
 

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Tell your OB or MW what you want as well, and why. So that they can help reinforce/inform the staff if the staff starts to move in on babe while you're still blissed out after birth, KWIM?<br><br>
We did a birth plan, the OB knew - and, one of things I mentioned is the AAP breastfeeding policy, which states right in the policy that babe should be placed on mom's chest after birth to facilitate initiating nursing immediately, that routine tests etc. can all wait. I brought a hilighted copy of that statement with me to the hospital in case we had to fight it out but we were fine, no issues.<br><br>
Birth plans can be key - have you researched one and looked for a good one to bring? My labors are fast enough that the staff didn't get a chance to read my birth plan - but the OB knew we wanted delayed clamping, baby to breast etc. and he made sure that they didn't get pushy either.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lilgsmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9038472"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">tI dont know what other excuses they can come up with.</div>
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They don't need to "come up with an excuse". That would imply some sort of peer-to-peer interaction or a feeling that they need to justify their actions to you. They would be acknowledging your request. Unfortunately, too often medical staff just DO what they wish, without pause, discussion, etc.<br><br>
I'm sorry to sound so negative, but I've heard enough stories about hospital staff LAUGHING at the notion of women bringing in birth plans, and seen enough of staff acknowledging my plan with a "Ok, looks good" and then ignoring many aspects (with absolutely no health concerns to warrant a deviation).<br><br>
I very much doubt I'll be birthing again, let alone in a hospital. But if I ever did, my birth plan would be pretty simple:<br><br>
It would be titled "NO!" in large letters. Following that:<br><br>
"There is no such thing as implied consent. Baring an emergency, EVERY intervention must be discussed with my husband/myself <i>and</i> verbally agreed to. I will pursue all manners of recourse if my wishes for care of myself or my newborn are violated."<br><br>
I guess I could believe the idea about "attracting more bees with honey" if I saw <i>evidence</i> that our gentle ways with medical personnel conveyed <b>anything</b> to them short of an assumed compliance.<br><br>
Oh yah. . . and that's <b>considering</b> my experiences of hunting around for the most laid-back, non-interventionist caregivers I could find. This isn't a reaction to me having some of those "horror" nurses or doctors you hear about. This is just the run-of-the-mill, perhaps well-intentioned violations of routine suctioning, immediate cord clamping, inspecting baby at warmer and removing vernix, etc, etc.<br><br>
I really don't think the hospital birthing climate will change until medical staff face stern dicipline for overstepping their bounds. And by the time the whole birth and hospital stay is over, most women who are dissatisfied by the process are simply grateful to beat it out of there and get on with enjoying their lovely new babies.<br><br>
I know this isn't what you were hoping to hear, but that's my perspective.
 

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Good luck with that!
 

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A client of mine had very good results with:<br><br>
Smile (sometimes it's more like gritting teeth)<br><br>
Say politely one of the following, as applicable:<br><br>
"I am not ready for you to take him yet. I will let you know when (if) I am ready."<br>
"Sorry, our family has a policy of being the ones to give the baby his first bath ourselves"<br>
"I carried the baby inside of me for 41 weeks, I will hold the baby myself now. You are welcome to examine him while I hold/nurse him, however"<br>
"I will have our family pediatrician take care of all medical treatment, including vaccinations"<br>
"I understand it is your policy, however, it is not mine."<br>
"no"<br>
"NO"<br>
"I don't believe you heard me right. N-O. No."<br><br>
It is the politeness that tends to work. They may had huge issues with you going "against hospital policy" but are more willing to bend if you are polite about your refusals. DH needs to be ready and willing to repeat the phrases as often as he needs to, as well.<br><br>
Good Luck,<br><br>
Sweetpea
 

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Birth plan, Birth Plan, Birth Plan!! Write ALL of your wishes down!! Mine was 4 1/2 pages long, with a cover sheet that was a shortened, quick glance version. And make your nurse read it! If you want help with your birth plan let me know- I have been helping a lot of mamas with them lately!
 

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Doula, doula, doula!<br><br>
I can't tell you how many times I've seen a doc or nurse or CNM just breeze right past the birth plan. Moms put so much time and effort into it, and to the hcp, it's just an annoying piece of paper to throw in the trash.<br><br>
Most moms are a little overwhelmed during the pushing phase, and so I whisper in moms ear, "Remember to tell them that you want baby placed on your chest immediately until further notice!" And I also mention it to dad.<br><br>
There is no need to be polite to the hospital staff -- they work for YOU and YOU are in charge. (Not that any of the nurses or docs or CNMs I've seen are actually aware of that phenomenon. I think they'd be shocked to realize it.)<br><br>
Seriously, a birth plan is all well and good, but when it comes down to it, it's a piece of paper. A doula is a person who will help you fulfull it. Not so easy to throw away a person as it is to throw away a piece of paper.<br><br>
-glad I'm homebirthing.
 

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I agree with the doula suggestion- I had two and they were wonderful. However, I still stress the importance of the birth plan. Putting down your wishes on paper make them very official and you just have to be forceful that your nurse read it. If you have to, make DH or the doula go over it with the nurse. The cover sheet with a shortened version of your plan is also an easy way for them to get the idea of what you want. I had my birth plan put in my chart when I preregistered at the hospital and I also brought one with me when I was in labor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I would love to have a doula or birth coach but we prolly wont be able to.<br><br>
Because Hospital A is currently only allowing 1 person besides the laboring Mother in the room...they are under construction so thier L&D rooms are small right now.<br><br>
And because Hospital B has a crappy VBAC rate....county hospital...crappy L&D practices....heck until you are triaged and put into a room...anywhere from 1-4 hours...they dont let anyone in with you...heck I had to wait 6hrs in the waiting room until my friend was taken for her section, when they finally came out and told me I could come back.<br><br>
I do plan on having a birth plan!<br><br>
I just dont want to have to say "Dont f'ing touch my baby!".....lol
 

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not sure how well this is gonna work since we haven't had our baby, but I told dh to hold our child and to NOT LET GO. I told him 'do not let our child out of your arms. Anything they want to do will have to wait or they can do it while you are hold him'. don't know how effective it'll be or if it'll even come up since we are planning a home birth and only will go to the hospital if there is an emergency. actually I'm surprised that dh remembers me saying this several months ago, as I didn't think he was listening. guess I made an impact.<br><br>
I have really mixed feelings about the birth plan. most of the ones I've seen are written like you are asking permission. I have a problem with that premise. most I have seen, have some general statement in the beginning 'in case of emergency we will trust your expertise' then at each line item there is something about unless an emergency arises, 'we request dimmed lighting, unless is it medically necessary to have otherwise'. It just doesn't make sense to me, maybe if I already had a hospital birth under my belt, I would understand better. it is my body, my birth and my child. the professionals are there in case of emergency.
 

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Birth plan definitely, although I referred to mine as "preferences" as I know the med establishment disses them and regardless of the plan stuff happens. Also, if it's 4 pages they are less likely to read it. Mine was 2, I think and bulleted where possible.<br><br>
I wasn't asking permission in mine, but nor was it a list of demands as I didn't feel that would accomplish my goal of a ncb. Recognizing that you never know what might happen, but the point was to avoid all their routine interventions that would result in more of the same.<br><br>
This was part of the summary before my specific requests, sets the tone<br><br>
The following is our “ideal” birthing preferences and we thank you for helping us achieve as many of these goals as possible.<br><br>
In the event that the situation becomes life-threatening for mom or baby, we will, of course consent to any request for life-saving intervention, upon the briefest of consultation. In the strong likelihood that we have the normal birth that we expect, we ask that you refrain from any routine interventions or measures that we have not previously agreed upon.<br><br>
I had a great ncb eventhough I made the mistake of going in for ROM check so spent 2 days in the hospital before labor started. Nobody ever mentioned pit as my preferences were clear.
 

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From an L & D nurse perspective-<br><br>
You can put it in a birth plan, but make your birth plan short. Definitely not more than 1 page. Even the best and most supportive nurse does not have time to read multiple pages of birth plan. Not to mention retaining everything you have written. Make it concise. If you have to, make a postpartum plan in addition to your birth plan but really try to minimize your birth plan. Things like "I request no shaving or enema" are not necessary in most places anymore.<br><br>
Secondly remember that it is the provider who holds the cards on where baby goes after birth. Some providers put the baby right on mom's chest and others hand the baby to a nurse or take him/her to the warmer. The most important thing to do is make sure your provider knows you want the baby on your chest.<br><br>
Once you have the baby with you there is no reason you can't just say no to someone trying to take him/her away. You need to make sure your DH/partner is on board and ready to speak up because from personal experience you may not be up to arguing at that point and may give in a little easier.<br><br>
Remember that almost everything really hinges on your provider. They write the orders for everything from IVs to catheters to meds for you and babe. So if you don't talk to your provider first you will show up at the hospital with orders for all of those things already entered (they do it in advance). That's what makes it difficult for nurses to against "policy" - legal orders from the doc are there. Of course, you have the right to refuse anything, but it isn't always that easy from the nurse's perspective (doesn't want doc to be mad, never had a patient refuse something before, etc). Good luck with your birth.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lilgsmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9049712"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would love to have a doula or birth coach but we prolly wont be able to.<br><br>
Because Hospital A is currently only allowing 1 person besides the laboring Mother in the room...they are under construction so thier L&D rooms are small right now.<br><br>
And because Hospital B has a crappy VBAC rate....county hospital...crappy L&D practices....heck until you are triaged and put into a room...anywhere from 1-4 hours...they dont let anyone in with you...heck I had to wait 6hrs in the waiting room until my friend was taken for her section, when they finally came out and told me I could come back.<br><br>
I do plan on having a birth plan!<br><br>
I just dont want to have to say "Dont f'ing touch my baby!".....lol</div>
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Just curious, have you asked the county hospital directly what their VBAC rate is? I wonder because where I live the county has really low C/S rates, really good VBAC rates because there is little financial incentive to do more interventions with people using public assistance. Even if you aren't using public assistance the environment may be a little more VBAC friendly than you think.
 

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I agree that it is vital to make sure your doctor is well informed about your birth plan and wishes.<br><br>
The reason my birth plan was so long was because I included everything related to the birth, postpartum and in case of an emergency. I had my 3 pages detailing what my choices were and why I had chosen them, and then I had a concise cover page version that just bullet pointed all of my wishes. That way they could tell at a glance what I expected but if they questioned why I made the choices I did they could also look at the other pages to find out my reasoning and acknowledge that I was an informed mama- not jsut blingly making "crazy" choices. I think that my birth plan and written explanations helped the nursing staff have more respect for me and my choices because they knew I wasn't some dumb, young, naive woman who didn't know the first thing about anything! I think I avoided a lot of the crap that a lot of women deal with because the nurses knew they couldn't pass things off on me. KWIM?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Chic_Mama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9055176"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I agree that it is vital to make sure your doctor is well informed about your birth plan and wishes.<br><br>
The reason my birth plan was so long was because I included everything related to the birth, postpartum and in case of an emergency. I had my 3 pages detailing what my choices were and why I had chosen them, and then I had a concise cover page version that just bullet pointed all of my wishes. That way they could tell at a glance what I expected but if they questioned why I made the choices I did they could also look at the other pages to find out my reasoning and acknowledge that I was an informed mama- not jsut blingly making "crazy" choices. I think that my birth plan and written explanations helped the nursing staff have more respect for me and my choices because they knew I wasn't some dumb, young, naive woman who didn't know the first thing about anything! I think I avoided a lot of the crap that a lot of women deal with because the nurses knew they couldn't pass things off on me. KWIM?</div>
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That's probably the best of both worlds then. I just hate how the other nurses mock birth plans, but in all honesty sometimes they are so long or ridiculous that it is hard for the nurses to relate. Something like what you had is also a great way to educate nurses who in all honesty are rarely informed about risks/benefits outside of what the hospital/provider believes.<br><br>
I would be quite happy to read and respect any birth plan that comes my way but I think in the worst case nurse scenario something short or something like what chic_mama did is a great idea.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lilgsmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9049712"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would love to have a doula or birth coach but we prolly wont be able to.</div>
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I think you need to explore this option more. Whether it means going to Hospital B or getting prior permission from Hospital A. I think only allowing 1 person in the room is a very outdated rule. I would abslolutely FIGHT for a doula to be allowed. If there is a $ issue also when hiring a doula, you might be able to find someone who is recently finished training and would do it for free. I wouldn't birth in a hospital without a doula (well, I wouldn't birth in a hospital w/o medical reasons anyway- which you do have). You NEED a doula, ESPECIALLY since you are trying for a VBAC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>celestialdreamer</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9055259"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think you need to explore this option more. Whether it means going to Hospital B or getting prior permission from Hospital A. I think only allowing 1 person in the room is a very outdated rule. I would abslolutely FIGHT for a doula to be allowed. If there is a $ issue also when hiring a doula, you might be able to find someone who is recently finished training and would do it for free. I wouldn't birth in a hospital without a doula (well, I wouldn't birth in a hospital w/o medical reasons anyway- which you do have). You NEED a doula, ESPECIALLY since you are trying for a VBAC.</div>
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Before construction they (hospital A) allowed as many people as you would want....but they had to move to smaller rooms cause of the construction.......very small rooms<br><br>
Im going to do more talking with Hospital B......but even when I did give birth there 5 years ago, it was the same procedures...it sucked
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lilgsmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9049712"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I just dont want to have to say "Dont f'ing touch my baby!".....lol</div>
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You may have to. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> I wouldn't think twice about it, and if they tried anyhow I'd act as though I were being assaulted.<br>
YOUR baby, you don't need anyone's "ok"...but, sadly, easier said than done in a hospital. Be prepared to be VERY assertive. Good luck!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>YumaDoula</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9049600"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br>
There is no need to be polite to the hospital staff -- they work for YOU and YOU are in charge.</div>
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I am going to respectfully both agree <span style="text-decoration:underline;">and</span> disagree with you, Yuma. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Yes, the hospital staff works for you/the patient (even if they don't acknowledge it), but so does the guy who services your car. The thing is, he does not have the motivation to manipulate me into a spinal tap on the baby, or calling CPS, or interpreting a funky heartrate on the monitor in a negative way, in retaliation for rude behavior. The hospital staff subjected to rude behavior CAN and DO retaliate, to the detriment of mamas and babies. OP can be ASSERTIVE AND POLITE at the same time. Polite does not mean submissive. It just means recognizing the other person's humanity, much as you would like them to recognize yours. Without relinquishing control.<br><br>
Of course, if the nurse/doctor/whatever is a total UA Violation, all bets are off, and anything goes! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Sweeetpea
 
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