[bluebell]

i'm at my wits end with this seasonal affective disorder. it seems worst than ever this year, and my diet is so much better this year than previous years. i'm so tired in the mornings, feel utterly low highly anxious and in the doldrums all day (not good for my daughter to be around). and i find it difficult to get to sleep at night (though once asleep can't wake up!). i'm wondering if it might be because i've changed my diet. i'm totally complex carb and sugar free but i'm wondering if this is causing me to make even less serotonin than before? i know my symptoms are low serotonin based. i've tried a light box but its not working. i'm so tempted to get antidepressents but i really don't want to go down that path because everything in my life is natural these days. the best answer would be to move or go on a long holiday abroad to a sunny place (not possible unfortunatly) so i don't know what to do.<br><br>
i used to follow the 'potatoe's not prozac' diet years ago and that did really help lift my brain chemistry up and was the start of my journey to TF, however i had to move on from that diet because i was having such bad gut problems from the complex carbs, and the whole diet is based around having a brown carb with protein. since cutting the carbs and sugars my gut has got better but i'm really struggling with the brain chemistry thing.<br><br>
does anyone else feel bad during the winter? has anyone found any nutrional cures. i really believe i can help this with the right nutrition, but i can't go back to eating carbs because of the gut stuff, so it is a matter of finding the answer. i'm also wondering if it might be related to die off because i've been taking lots more probiotics and i've definilty got a candida problem. but i think it is more than just that because when thats happened before it usually settles down after a while.<br><br>
it is so dark and grey in england right now - and i struggle to motivate to get out even on the sunnier days.<br>
i'm so in the doldrums any ideas would be appreciated.<br>
thanks for reading this!

 

[Pinky Tuscadero]

I'm pretty sure cod liver oil is supposed to help with that. I would also make sure I was getting plenty of good fats. I mean, plenty. As in, a lot. Raw butter, coconut oil, bacon grease, etc.<br>
I think more fat is the answer to a lot of our health problems.<br>
Hope you find something that helps!

 

[Leilalu]

You could suppl. vitamin D instead of antidepressants. I know it is helping me. I just don't get enough sun lately with all the stormy weather, and this Florida raised girl needs sun!

 

[bluebell]

thanks for your replies. i am taking 2tsp of dr rons CLO and 2tsp of green pastures high vit butter oil already. i am trying to eat more fats though but perhaps still not enough. i've been having butter but its not raw (am trying to either make it or find a source for raw butter). i do find getting more fat into my diet quite difficult, but this could well be the answer - i'll start adding it to everything i eat! really big thanks to you for repliying - just that has cheered me up!!

 

[cortsmommy]

You could go to a tanning bed too. Just don't stay in it too long. You want to get some light, not get burned. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">

 

[kbchavez]

oops! double post. For some reason I need more letters...

 

[kbchavez]

I have been having this same problem. The thing that has made the biggest difference is raw liver pills. I'm also eating two raw eggs a day, CO and BO, some raw meat, lots of raw butter and honey. Too much raw food, and I get queasy. Some cooked starch really helps if you can swing it. I am doing really wild rice and potatoes. I am also doing a light box, and and thinking of going to a tanning bed. Does cooked starch always upset your digestion? I have a hard time with grains, but do fine with root vegetables. I do find I need some carbs in the afternoon, especially. Good luck!

 

[bluebell]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kbchavez</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10272353"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have been having this same problem. The thing that has made the biggest difference is raw liver pills. I'm also eating two raw eggs a day, CO and BO, some raw meat, lots of raw butter and honey. Too much raw food, and I get queasy. Some cooked starch really helps if you can swing it. I am doing really wild rice and potatoes. I am also doing a light box, and and thinking of going to a tanning bed. Does cooked starch always upset your digestion? I have a hard time with grains, but do fine with root vegetables. I do find I need some carbs in the afternoon, especially. Good luck!</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<br>
i'm trying to go more raw, i'm having 3 raw eggs in a green smoothie, and eating raw honey. not had raw meat yet though. yes starch is a real problem because i'm basically doing the scd, i know i can't tolerate potatoes anyway even sweet potatoes and most root veg. the only one i can do is butternut squash which i do eat often. potatoes really affect my blood sugar (as do most carbs). i have extremely low blood sugar problems which have got better since cutting the carbs because most carbs gave me reactive hypoglaciemia. however i'm also wondering if the slow start in the mornings is related to bloodsugar because i am still nursing my 4 1/2yr old in the night/early morning. i'm wondering i should try to eat in the middle of the night because it is such a long time without food. i'd have to actually wake up though and eat and then get back to sleep again which might be difficult. but i do really wonder if this is to do with blood sugar, as i did read somewhere that people with low blood sugar are prone to S.A.D.<br><br>
the light box hasn't done much for me. i can't do a tanning bed cos it freaks me out! but i am going to increase the fat.<br><br>
where do you get liver pills from?<br><br>
thanks for your repliy, i hope things get easier for you too.

 

[lastrid]

Your sleep symptoms sound like Adrenal Fatigue. Perhaps that is part of your problem as well as SAD?

 

[bluebell]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lastrid</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10272547"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Your sleep symptoms sound like Adrenal Fatigue. Perhaps that is part of your problem as well as SAD?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
oh yes! i read a great book on that too and related to most of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue - especially the energy sluggish in the morning and waking up at 10pm! but my homeopath/natrapath said that the adrenal fatigue is all related to the bad health of my gut and the candida overgrowth. he recomended to sort the gut out and the adrenals will get better. but its taking so long!! this winter i'm barely functioning - if i could i would literally go into hibernation. i'm really thinking about this blood sugar problem now and its relation to it all - but then again it probably all comes back down to the way my gut is - come to think of it now i think serotonin is also made in the gut hmm! i've got to sort my gut out!

 

[spiderdust]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>bluebell</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10270985"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">i am taking 2tsp of dr rons CLO and 2tsp of green pastures high vit butter oil already.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Try going up to a whole tablespoon of the CLO. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">

 

[newcastlemama]

I would look into taking in more vitamin D because in the winter we burn through stores of 3000-4000iu a day and there is research that D can help SAD. My nutrionist said that everyone (in a northern climate) should be getting in 4,000iu a day in the winter. 2t of HVCLO has about 2300 iu of D I think.<br><br>
I don't have SAD this year so far and I have been taking about 5300iu of D in the form of CLO and D3. I do have a light box and that did help some in the past. Short tanning bed sessions seemed to help too just for the warm feeling and the brightness(I would only get in for about 6 minutes) My girlfriend gets it very badly and has had some success with St. John's Wort.<br><br>
I hope you feel better soon. SAD is so hard to go through <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">s<br>
Jen

 

[dannic]

Have you read The Mood Cure by Julia Ross? It's a good read...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">

 

[bluebell]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>newcastlemama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10273833"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would look into taking in more vitamin D because in the winter we burn through stores of 3000-4000iu a day and there is research that D can help SAD. My nutrionist said that everyone (in a northern climate) should be getting in 4,000iu a day in the winter. 2t of HVCLO has about 2300 iu of D I think.<br><br>
I don't have SAD this year so far and I have been taking about 5300iu of D in the form of CLO and D3. I do have a light box and that did help some in the past. Short tanning bed sessions seemed to help too just for the warm feeling and the brightness(I would only get in for about 6 minutes) My girlfriend gets it very badly and has had some success with St. John's Wort.<br><br>
I hope you feel better soon. SAD is so hard to go through <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">s<br>
Jen</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<br>
being the anxious type - especially in the winter! i'm worried about overdosing on vit A and D. so would a tablespoon give me enough vit D without overdosing? and if i'm adding raw butter and teh high vit butter oil will i still be ok? what is D3?<br><br>
can i take st johns' wort while breastfeeding do you know? just being a bit paranoid - i'm sure i'm totally depleted in vit D, the last summer in england was terrible so i didn't get much sun then, and i've had absorbption problems anyway with the dodgy gut that i've got. so it kind of makes sense that i need to dramatically increase my amounts of vit D.<br><br>
will also check out the mood cure book - thanks for the suggestion.<br><br>
thanks everyone.

 

[macly]

I think you do want to be careful about what type of vitamins you are eating. Good CLO such as Green Pastures put the natural vit. A and D back in after the oil is cleansed so they are not the toxic synthetic version. From what I have read you can not overdose on natural vit. A. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. With that reasoning, you would want to be careful about taking a vitamin D supplement in addition to CLO as that is likely synthetic. My sister and I have been been affected with SAD at one time in our lives, and I now the CLO helped her tremendously (I was in high school with a horrid diet, so did not try anything diet related). You can also increase certain types of food such as fish and eggs to boost your natural vit. D. These foods don't have tons of D in them, but any bit helps.<br><br>
This is unrelated to TF, but I had a dawn simulator in high school that I loved (and that my mom still uses). If you google sunrise alarm clock there are tons of models out there. It basically is a natural light box that slowly starts lighting up (like dawn) 30 minutes before the alarm rings in the morning. They are pricing, but maybe worth checking out.<br><br>
Good luck to you. I know how tough this can be! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2">

 

[phroggies]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kbchavez</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10272353"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have been having this same problem. The thing that has made the biggest difference is raw liver pills.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I just wanted to second the raw liver suggestion. I don't know if I have SAD per se, but it sure as heck feels like it sometimes, and I do find the liver makes a big difference in the winter. I try to get about an ounce of it a day, though I'm not very religious about it. I usually just eat thin slices of frozen liver--never tried pills.<br><br>
This may be a no-brainer, but I also try very hard to get outside at least a little each day, without my glasses or contacts. I've really been focusing on this this season and I think it's helping--but on the other hand it's been really warm and sunny here so who knows?

 

[newcastlemama]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>bluebell</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10276398"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">being the anxious type - especially in the winter! i'm worried about overdosing on vit A and D. so would a tablespoon give me enough vit D without overdosing? and if i'm adding raw butter and teh high vit butter oil will i still be ok? what is D3?<br><br>
can i take st johns' wort while breastfeeding do you know? just being a bit paranoid - i'm sure i'm totally depleted in vit D, the last summer in england was terrible so i didn't get much sun then, and i've had absorbption problems anyway with the dodgy gut that i've got. so it kind of makes sense that i need to dramatically increase my amounts of vit D.<br><br>
will also check out the mood cure book - thanks for the suggestion.<br><br>
thanks everyone.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
About D-- Here is a thread and some articles<br><a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=795786&highlight=supplementing+vitamin+D" target="_blank">http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ting+vitamin+D</a><br><br>
I would read these if you are worried about overdosing<br>
Vitamin A-- <a href="http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitaminasaga.html" target="_blank">http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...aminasaga.html</a><br>
Vitamin D-- <a href="http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitamin-d-safety.html" target="_blank">http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...-d-safety.html</a><br><br>
1 T of HVCLO would be 30,000iu A and 3,450 iu of D. I would not worry about overdosing at that level. I would worry more about underdosing. The more I read about fat soluables the less I worry about overdosing on them.<br><br>
D3 (not D2) is the one to take. There is info in the links I posted. I take Carlson brand.<br>
The main thing is that you want to balance you fat soluables (A,D,K) and get enough calcuim and magnesium. From what I gather from the WAPF site primitive people ate 50,000 iu of A/day and they recommend a total of 4,000iu of D for pregnancy.<br><br>
You could get tested for vitamin D if it makes you feel better about supplmenting. That is how I knew I was deficient.<br><br>
St.Johns wort--I don't know if it is BF compatible. My friend says that she knows you cannot take it while pregnant.<br><br>
Jen

 

[kbchavez]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>bluebell</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10272490"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">the light box hasn't done much for me. i can't do a tanning bed cos it freaks me out! but i am going to increase the fat.<br><br>
where do you get liver pills from?<br><br>
thanks for your repliy, i hope things get easier for you too.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
The liver pills are just small pieces of raw frozen liver that you swallow like pills. I actually find them easier to take when they've thawed a bit. Then they slip right down because they're soft. I swallow mine with rejuvelac. It's supposed to have a lot of B vitamins, too, so I call it my morning B vitamin boost. I would say that in the week or so I've been taking the raw liver, that I've experienced at least a 50% improvement in my depression and fatigue.<br><br>
How long did you try the lightbox? I just got mine, so I can't say if it's made a difference or not. I know it's supposed to take a week to notice any effect.<br><br>
Supposedly, they make safer tanning beds, now. Check out Dr. Mercola's site for info. I have very white skin, and have always feared tanning beds... but I'm seriously considering it now. I plan on covering my face, neck and hands since they all have some photo damage from regular sun exposure (ah, life in California), and just let the rest of my pasty self get some exposure. I wouldn't do it long enough to burn... maybe 15 minutes or so.

 

[bluebell]

thanks again everyone. so something i can try is the raw liver and see if that helps. newcastlemama thanks for putting my anxious mind at rest - i need to relax a bit about this cos it sounds like i'm definitly underdosing.<br><br>
i used my lightbox everyday from october until just recently but as i hadn't found much difference i've given up because it was just a hassle to have to sit infront of it solidly for 30mins or so, with dd wanting my attention.<br><br>
i will look into the sunrise light though because that sounds exactly what i need when dd wakes me up it is dark and it dosn't get light here until about<br>
9am...kbchavez aah california sunshine...i'm dreaming of the times i used to escape english winter for a few weeks to visit friends back in the pre dd days!

 

[thedomesticdiva]

{{{{hugs}}}}<br><br>
I have no help to offer, other than empathy: I know depression.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
Do not lose faith, I know you can find something that will help!!