Is your employer supportive, but not your DH's?

604 Views 11 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Ellien C, Mar 31, 2006

mom2evan

Discussion Starter · Mar 30, 2006

I am wondering if our situation is unique, or if others find themselves in the same circumstances.

When DS was a year old, I took off a few months to rethink my career path and find a job that satisfied my professional goals and my personal needs (i.e., a flexible, less than full-time schedule). I am very happy where I am now, in a small law firm, working with a lawyer who, though older, white, and male, truly supports my dual roles as the mother of a young child and a competent lawyer.

My DH, on the other hand, works in a start-up company for a physician who does not support DH's role as a father in a family with two working parents. Initially, he sounded quite supportive. He and DH had many conversations about the challenges faced by working mothers. It rapidly became apparent, however, that DH's boss believes the solution to those challenges is for working mothers all to go back home, where they belong. (His wife stays home and homeschools their four children.)

This week, for example, DS was sick with a high fever on Monday and Tuesday and could not go to day care. I had a brief to write for an appeal and absolutely could not take the time off. DH had no pressing meetings or deadlines, so he stayed home with DS.

When DH went back to work yesterday, he said it was plain that his boss was extremely angry - not because DH had failed to do work that was needed (he worked in the evenings after I came home and got quite a lot done), but simply because he wasn't there during regular office hours because he was parenting a sick child. His boss again raved about how women have been sold a bill of goods, that it isn't possible to "have it all," and on and on.

Ironically, of course, it is people like this man who create the very problems he describes.

His backward views have created a real dilemma for us. Because it is a startup, and DH could be let go on a whim by his boss, we end up having to consider his antagonism toward's DH's role as an equal parent any time Evan has to go to the doctor's office (which is 15 minutes from DH's workplace, but 45 minutes from mine), is sick, or has some other need during the regular work day. Aside from this week, I end up having to do more than either DH or I want because of DH's boss' views.

Aside from the differences with his boss, DH loves his job. It is exactly what he wants to do, and given where we live (a rural area), it doesn't make sense for him to leave his position there.

So often we discuss the lack of support for working mothers; the lack of support for fathers who share equally in parenting is just as insidious, IMO. My DH doesn't want to be the kind of father who changes one diaper a week and maybe takes his kid for a couple of hours on the weekend. He comforts DS when he is sick, plays when he is happy, changes diapers, bathes, clothes, and feeds him, nurtures him at night, and is in all ways my partner in parenting. He shouldn't be made to feel somehow less invested or less committed to his career simply because he wants to be a father as well.

Do you think that perhaps our sons, who grow up in an environment in which both parents share equally in the joys and responsibilities of parenting, will finally effect some changes for both mothers and fathers in the workplace?

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Geofizz

· #2 · Mar 30, 2006

I'm not in your situation at all, but I think you've hit a nail (one of many) on the head as to why family-work-life balances can be so tough. Kudos for your DH for taking sick time to care for your ds despite his boss' views.

It sounds like this boss is not going to change his views. Does your DH need to be <ahem> totally upfront about why he's taking time? Can he say he's staying home because he's sick himself?

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Ellien C

· #3 · Mar 30, 2006

My husband's work is pretty supportive, but his field in this city is dominated by women - young ones with kids. He was in his 40s when we had children and had been through years and years of wedding showers, maternity leaves and in general child-care responsibilities of other co-workers. His office (especially his co-workers) were thrilled when he took (unpaid) paternity leave. The women were thrilled to see a man taking the leave they'd took, and he'd covered for them for years, so it was seen as a good thing. They gave him a wedding shower and a baby shower, too - and I wasn't even there!

In my work, most people are in their 30s. I get the most support from the men who have working wives, regardless of age. We don't have so many women in management, so I can't say if I'd get support from other women. The men with working wives sometimes have to cover childcare, sick days, conferences or sometimes just Boy Scout meetings themselves, so they are pretty good.

I think your DH needs to take the tack my mother did when she was employed in the 70s when I was growing up. Simply don't tell them why he is taking off. It sounds like a good job that he enjoys. He won't change the "neanderthal" overnight so why antagonize him. Are there personal days he can use without explanation? Could he be vague and say "family emergency?" Could he lie and simply take a sick day himself?

I know none of these vague/lying options further the cause of fathers rights in the workplace, but you've got the read the environment of the company. Back in the day, my mother was happy to simply say she had to meet a client or had another appointment when she needed to pick me up. And now, I'm in a place where I can proudly to say to my male boss that I can't come to work because of sick children/drs appointments/parent-teacher conferences and DH is in a place where he can do the same. I think change happens slowly.

And yes - I think our sons and daughters will be in even greater positions of strength when they go to work and balance family needs.

There's a ton of workplace generational research that supports the notion that younger workers (Gen X and Gen Y) value flexibility and balance in the job whereas baby boomers are DEFINED by their jobs. The term workaholic was created for those boomers. They don't see balance as a legitimate life goal - they view sacrifice and working their way up the ladder as the key to success. Now, a Gen Y person may not have any desire to climb the corporate ladder like his work-a-holic baby-boomer Dad whom he never saw. He sees success in terms of flexibility and balance, not income and corner office. So, a Gen Y, may not have family needs (yet) but would consider his buddies spur-of-the-moment rock climbing trip a legitimate reason to call in sick. Workplaces will be forced to confront these changing values from younger workers who don't define themselves solely in terms of their jobs.

Here's my favorite site for workplace generational differences:
http://www.marstoncomm.com/
In the workplace, Boomers: Believe in, champion, and evaluate themselves and others based on their work ethic. Work ethic for Boomers is measured in hours worked. Measuring productivity in those hours is less important

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JNW

· #4 · Mar 30, 2006

Ick. Your husband's employer needs to get in touch with reality. What matters is that the work is being accomplished, not that someone's butt is in an office chair during the standard workday. If the guy doesn't like people using their benefits for their intended purpose, maybe he should stop offering them, but he has no right to get pissy about it.

We have been fortunate that both of our employers have been very good about flexibility. When I told my then-supervisor that I was pregnant and wanted to work part-time after my maternity leave, he immediately agreed. My husband's boss offered to let him work from home one day a week (he chose to do 4-10s instead), and another co-worker's boss offered her the options of both working from home and bringing her baby into the office after her leave.

It seems that dads who actually take a hand in parenting are seen as being anything from henpecked to freakish. Mothers admire them but I'm not sure how many other men do.

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~Shanna~

· #5 · Mar 30, 2006

Would it be effective to directly address the elephant in the room? I wonder if your DH initiating a frank and confident discussion with his boss about what the expectations are of the job, especially as it relates to using the benefits offered such as time off, would nip this. If you feel that you can afford the bluff, I envision something like an evaluation interview where your husband is re-presented with the expectations, and makes clear to the boss that he will have to do some soul-searching to see if he can meet the expecations, given his responsibilities as a man. It seems like it could go far in reminding the boss of his place: Is the employee or is he not meeting the requirements of the job? Boss' opinion about the "whys" are none of his business, and it could be a good way to remind him of that. It's a business relationship.

I'm so sorry that this is a problem

Though it's not the first time I've heard of an employer getting pissy about an employee using benefits offered and otherwise getting his or her work done in a non-traditional way. How many of us have had a situation where you get 12 days of sick time a year, and we all know what happens to you when you actually use it

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MoonJelly

· #6 · Mar 30, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellien C
Work ethic for Boomers is measured in hours worked. Measuring productivity in those hours is less important

So true. So many people in the workforce operate this way.

: It's totally absurd.

ETA, this quote from the Web site:

uniquely defined by them as working long and hard and being seen doing it.

really puts a finer point on it. Definitely they need to be seen working those hours. And being able to brag about it too IME.

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Ellien C

· #7 · Mar 31, 2006

PS.

Fortune Magazine ran an article about work-life balance in the Nov 28, 2005 issue. I saved the hard copy and it's posted online.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...1955/index.htm

This might present some arguments in terms that DH's boss can understand.
I'm thinking perhaps he could print it off and use it as a starting point for that frank Elephant-in-the-room discussion.

Excerpt:
Either you're a maniacal workaholic who runs the world--or you're a Dilbert, punching a clock with little power and authority. Too many businesspeople think that's just the way of the world. "You can't have it all," they say. But let's be very clear on what "all" is. People want to work at the level they're capable of and still have time for things outside work that nourish them.

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kewb

· #8 · Mar 31, 2006

You are not alone. My boss is very understanding. The company I work for is not. DH's old company was not. It was very difficult for him to call in sick to take care of one of our children. It was difficult to leave on time to go to a little league game. You would have thought he was wanting to leave at noon.

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aprilushka

· #9 · Mar 31, 2006

This is my point with all of this, which I realized while working at my old, demanding not really family friendly law firm job-- the problem isn't work-family (or just work-life) balance for women, the problem is work-family balance for everyone, but not enough men have yet really stood up and demanded more balance, so people still focus on it as a woman's issue and it's just not. When a critical mass of men do it in the higher management spheres, then we will see better work conditions for everyone and the job of raising kids will gain more economic and social value. But it's true that now a man who wants work family balance often has a tougher time than women because it's expected that he either isn't concerned about it or shouldn't be and SAHDs still experience a lot of social discrimination.

I do think a lot of men are fed up with it though, especially as demands only keep increasing with technology, and we may see that critical mass at some point, or at least there's some hope we will.

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MountainLaurel

· #10 · Mar 31, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellien C
Work ethic for Boomers is measured in hours worked. Measuring productivity in those hours is less important

That sort of attitude (and I've suffered it before) makes me so glad that I work in an environment where the departmental culture is such that as long as I get my work done and am here for meetings and reference hours, no one really cares whether I leave early one day to go get my hair cut or come in late because the dog puked all over the living room.

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MountainLaurel

· #11 · Mar 31, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonJelly
really puts a finer point on it. Definitely they need to be seen working those hours. And being able to brag about it too IME.

DH's last job was horrible that way: If you weren't in the office 80 hours a week, you were considered "not a team player." DH didn't play that game and ended up sacked after a year. There's a real culture of that in DC, and it's to the detriment of workers and their lives.

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Ellien C

· #12 · Mar 31, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by aprilushka
-- the problem isn't work-family (or just work-life) balance for women, the problem is work-family balance for everyone, but not enough men have yet really stood up and demanded more balance, so people still focus on it as a woman's issue and it's just not. When a critical mass of men do it in the higher management spheres, then we will see better work conditions for everyone and the job of raising kids will gain more economic and social value.

EXACTLY! I couldn't agree more!

I'm very passionate about the idea that mothers working, by choice, makes the world a better place for everyone. This isn't to say that all mothers should work, or should want to make that choice, but the ones that do are NOT contributing to the downfall of western civilization.

A new generation of men are defining themselves differently from the baby-boomer work ethic. I do think we are starting to see change. That's one of the reasons I saved the magazine article from Fortune - because they showed work-life balance as an issue for men, not just women. If you have the time (it's a long article) I do recommend reading it.

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