Israelis to build wall around west bank
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They are very well into this process now. There is a large concrete wall with barbed wire on top of it stretching for many miles.
I don't quite understand how it will actually help security. To my mind it is a political statement with two purposes:
1: As an attempt to show Israelies that the government is doing something to prevent terrorism (without actually achieving that goal)
2: To psychologically bully and further oppress the Pallestinian population.
I don't quite understand how it will actually help security. To my mind it is a political statement with two purposes:
1: As an attempt to show Israelies that the government is doing something to prevent terrorism (without actually achieving that goal)
2: To psychologically bully and further oppress the Pallestinian population.
Quote:
No. Not even close. Didn't do a lot of heavy lifting in history class, huh?
Your analogy is either at best, very lazy, or at worst, a pathetic piece of bait to some of the members here.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you may want to review some of these links on the security fence to bone up on the issue:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0808/p01s05-wome.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0814/p06s01-wome.html
and
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0905/p01s03-wome.html
Note that most Israelis, progressives and peaceniks included, believe that a security fence separating Israel and the West Bank is needed (Sharon was previously against a fence). Note as well that Gaza and Israel are separated by security fence. Few, if any, of suicide bombers sent by the three major terrorist factions to blow up people on buses, cafes etc. have come from Gaza.
That said, a security fence that lurches so far east to protect the settlements of Ariel et al. (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/345229.html)
will likely (and hopefully) hurl the Bush Administration into a showdown with the Sharon government, not unlike the one Dubya's daddy had with former PM Shamir back in '91.
| Originally posted by jannan Didn't the Nazis do the same thing in Poland around 1939? |
Your analogy is either at best, very lazy, or at worst, a pathetic piece of bait to some of the members here.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you may want to review some of these links on the security fence to bone up on the issue:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0808/p01s05-wome.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0814/p06s01-wome.html
and
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0905/p01s03-wome.html
Note that most Israelis, progressives and peaceniks included, believe that a security fence separating Israel and the West Bank is needed (Sharon was previously against a fence). Note as well that Gaza and Israel are separated by security fence. Few, if any, of suicide bombers sent by the three major terrorist factions to blow up people on buses, cafes etc. have come from Gaza.
That said, a security fence that lurches so far east to protect the settlements of Ariel et al. (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/345229.html)
will likely (and hopefully) hurl the Bush Administration into a showdown with the Sharon government, not unlike the one Dubya's daddy had with former PM Shamir back in '91.
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Didn't we discuss this fence in the long thread about Avraham Burg's article?
This fence that has been underway since June, 2002? And you are just learning about it now from, uh, "word of mouth"? This thing that's been in the news for more than a year.
I think it's worth discussing, if you are willing to actually learn anything about it beyond "word of mouth." I'm really surprised you would start a thread with a Nazi comparison without having actually read anything at all about the issue. But maybe you never read anything about the Nazis, either?
This fence that has been underway since June, 2002? And you are just learning about it now from, uh, "word of mouth"? This thing that's been in the news for more than a year.
I think it's worth discussing, if you are willing to actually learn anything about it beyond "word of mouth." I'm really surprised you would start a thread with a Nazi comparison without having actually read anything at all about the issue. But maybe you never read anything about the Nazis, either?
wow, you guys are in a really foul mood today. all i said was , does anyone know about this. i don't remember it being discussed in a previous thread. And the last time a wall was build around a population was in poland in 1939. go figure
Please. Spare us the innocence act. That is NOT all you said.
First, there was no "wall" built around Poland in WW II.
Second, I seem to recall that the Berlin Wall was built some 20 years **after** the alleged wall. Also, have you ever seen the DMZ that separates North and South Korea?
Seriously, you may want to review the above links or hit the history books before posting on this subject. And maybe don't take for gospel some of the "word of mouth" stuff one encounters at an ANSWER rally.
First, there was no "wall" built around Poland in WW II.
Second, I seem to recall that the Berlin Wall was built some 20 years **after** the alleged wall. Also, have you ever seen the DMZ that separates North and South Korea?
Seriously, you may want to review the above links or hit the history books before posting on this subject. And maybe don't take for gospel some of the "word of mouth" stuff one encounters at an ANSWER rally.
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Just going to post a point - the wall is not "around" the Palestinians. The PA autonomous areas are still open to five neighboring Arab countries that border them. The only people "surrounded" by the wall are the Israelis. Much like the Ghettos of Europe.
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A point that many Israelis have made in their opposition to the wall.
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Quote:
"The last time a wall was built around a population..."
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Not that Rowan's dad hasn't already pointed out the most famous of the big walls in the Cold War period, but...
Do you ever check facts on anything you say? Just curious. I mean, my browser goes to Google.com with no problem. I can give you about fifty alternative links to stories about the Israeli wall, many of them quite critical of Israel. But yours doesn't, I guess. I suppose you can't get yours to point to Yahoo, Altavista or Ask Jeeves. You can't be bothered to link to any of the hundreds of newspapers, both mainstream and alternative, that carry articles about this topic.
This sort of thing really annoys me. It's not like you are saying something neutral, you are saying something inflammatory and you just don't know what you are talking about. You couldn't even be bothered to find out about the history of the Warsaw Ghetto. (News flash! I hear Warsaw is in Poland! But I can't verify that because I only heard it word of mouth...)
| Originally posted by jannan wow, you guys are in a really foul mood today. all i said was , does anyone know about this. i don't remember it being discussed in a previous thread. And the last time a wall was build around a population was in poland in 1939. go figure |
Not that Rowan's dad hasn't already pointed out the most famous of the big walls in the Cold War period, but...
Do you ever check facts on anything you say? Just curious. I mean, my browser goes to Google.com with no problem. I can give you about fifty alternative links to stories about the Israeli wall, many of them quite critical of Israel. But yours doesn't, I guess. I suppose you can't get yours to point to Yahoo, Altavista or Ask Jeeves. You can't be bothered to link to any of the hundreds of newspapers, both mainstream and alternative, that carry articles about this topic.
This sort of thing really annoys me. It's not like you are saying something neutral, you are saying something inflammatory and you just don't know what you are talking about. You couldn't even be bothered to find out about the history of the Warsaw Ghetto. (News flash! I hear Warsaw is in Poland! But I can't verify that because I only heard it word of mouth...)
Hi jannan. Sorry to see you got your a** flamed for bringing up this topic without lauding the Israelis for their actions first.
The wall is an insidious and evil act of apartheid which will only inflame terrorist activity and result in more dead bodies on both sides.
I pray every morning when I wake up that it will somehow be dismembered and taken down. It is a travesty against human rights and the worst politics practiced but the Israelis since the assasination of Rabin.
May the Palestinians have their separate state and the opression end and the killing cease.
The wall is an insidious and evil act of apartheid which will only inflame terrorist activity and result in more dead bodies on both sides.
I pray every morning when I wake up that it will somehow be dismembered and taken down. It is a travesty against human rights and the worst politics practiced but the Israelis since the assasination of Rabin.
May the Palestinians have their separate state and the opression end and the killing cease.
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The wall is an insidious and evil act of apartheid which will only inflame terrorist activity and result in more dead bodies on both sides.
ITA!
ITA!
It is ridiculous to assert that any specific action by the Israelis will "inflame" terrorist activity. When Israel has been "actively" engaged in the peace process the terrorist activities actually stepped up. When Israel retaliates, the Palestinian terrorists continue to kill men, women, children, too. And the Palestinians celebrate their deaths in the streets.
So in my view, anything that puts a barrier between terrorists and their innocent targets is not negative. I won't go as far as to say the fence is "good," because obviously the ideal is to live side by side in harmony and good will. But that doesn't look like it's on the immediate horizon. And meanwhile, saving lives, imo, must take precedence over anything else.
So in my view, anything that puts a barrier between terrorists and their innocent targets is not negative. I won't go as far as to say the fence is "good," because obviously the ideal is to live side by side in harmony and good will. But that doesn't look like it's on the immediate horizon. And meanwhile, saving lives, imo, must take precedence over anything else.
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