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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Of the 776 pediatricians and family doctors surveyed across the nation, 27 percent said they don’t endorse the vaccine strongly and 49 percent said they don’t emphasize urgency by offering the first shot on the day they see a patient.

This is disturbing considering past research that shows recommendations from health care providers are an especially strong factor in people’s decisions to get the vaccine.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/doctors-hpv-vaccine-rates_56282ac7e4b08589ef4aba0e

It's disturbing that the doctors aren't waiting at the door, greeting patients with a big fat HPV vaccine and forcing compliance? These doctors are also criticized for taking a risk-based approach to vaccines rather than forcing it on every pre-teen patient they see.

I guess when you can't blame the "antivaxers," blame the next easiest thing, and that's the doctors! Gotta blame someone other than the vaccine that not many want.
 

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There have been a lot of CDC ads around telling doctors to get into the "routine" of preventing cancer.

Vaccines: don't even think about the safety, health or relevance to the individual patient.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ha ha! This isn't the first time @SilverMoon010 and I have cross-posted on the same topic. :grin:
http://www.mothering.com/forum/47-v...nough-docs-pushing-gardasil.html#post19102234

We can confine it to this thread, though.

To repeat my point, these poor Gardasil pushers would make so much headway if only those pesky doctors didn't keep getting in the way!
We both posted exactly the same time today about the same topic at 1:23! How does that even happen? Lol! Pretty cool:thumb
 

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What is it about Gardasil that provokes mistrust? The fact that Merck is the manufacturer?
I do not think so. I am close to 100% certain that most people do not know of the issues with Merck...yet huge swathes of the population (50%?) refuse the vaccine for their children.

I do not even think most doctors know Merck is accused of fudging numbers. I think vaccine geeks know Merck is accused of fudging numbers, but we are a small percentage of the population.

I think HPV is unpopular for a variety of reasons, but the biggest is people have concerns about its safety. Those pesky girls who are in perfect health until they have the HPV vaccine speaking out about their lives post vaccine are harder to ignore than babies (who can neither speak or have much of a health history).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This whole situation around the HPV vaccine puts doctors in a really uncomfortable place. This survey is pointing fingers at doctors for not discussing this vaccine with parents more often, a vaccine for 11-12 year olds, against a sexually transmitted disease? Trying to look at it from the doctor's viewpoints, how uncomfortable for these doctors (who are already obviously very uncomfortable with it) having to discuss this with these parents face to face. It's all just so awkward and weird. The push for this vaccine is really creepy. I hope that these doctors stand strong in their stance. There is a reason they don't feel an urgency for this vaccine, and I'm glad they are leaning on the side of conservative measures when it comes to the HPV vaccine.
 

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I do not think so. I am close to 100% certain that most people do not know of the issues with Merck...yet huge swathes of the population (50%?) refuse the vaccine for their children.

I do not even think most doctors know Merck is accused of fudging numbers. I think vaccine geeks know Merck is accused of fudging numbers, but we are a small percentage of the population.

I think HPV is unpopular for a variety of reasons, but the biggest is people have concerns about its safety. Those pesky girls who are in perfect health until they have the HPV vaccine speaking out about their lives post vaccine are harder to ignore than babies (who can neither speak or have much of a health history).
Hence the truly frantic and vicious moves to censor any organization or newspaper or TV show that hosts parents and girls talking about how sick they are after getting these vaccines. This accomplishes two things:

1) it helps keep cases isolated and makes it harder for people to find out that their daughter (or son) isn't the only one to be sick after the vaccine

2) it makes it harder for people to link the vaccine to the problem. Hearing stories creates more people with stories to share. Of course the vaccine defenders would say that hearing stories makes people rewrite history so that an illness that began (for example) BEFORE the vaccine becomes an illness provoked by the vaccine.
 
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Yea, doctors push and prescribe plenty of other Merck products without flinching. The general public may distrust Merck, but not Establishment Medicine.

The article in the OP says that doctors refusal to push this vaccine isn't due to any, (heaven forbid), clinical expertise. They're just "uncomfortable" talking about it with their patients. The same people who prescribe birth control, treat yeast infections, and stick their gloved hands into women's nether regions are suddenly unable to talk about HPV. Yea. Whatever. When all else fails, accuse the skeptics of being prudes.

Speculation Alert: I suspect that the doctors who are reluctant to serve as Gardasil's marketing foot soldiers simply have a practice philosophy of employing the precautionary principle; they're not pleased with the research and are taking a wait-and-see approach until that changes. They very often work in small, independent practices, where they're not bound and gagged by the policies and protocols of corporate "health systems." They're pretty pro-vaccine while genuinely caring about safe vaccines and safe patients.

I love how the reporter describes the trend as "disturbing." We no longer get journalism--just dumbed-down homilies.
 

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I think the mistrust is a little different because this is taking us into a new class of vaccines. It's vaccinating for a virus that might cause cancer in some people years down the road. The cancer victims will only be one gender. And it's sexually transmitted, so morality is going to play in for some patients. And unlike most of the other vaccines where they can play on the fear of catching something that could be immediately fatal (cue parental panic), this time I feel parents get to have more time to really think about it.
 

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This whole situation around the HPV vaccine puts doctors in a really uncomfortable place. This survey is pointing fingers at doctors for not discussing this vaccine with parents more often, a vaccine for 11-12 year olds, against a sexually transmitted disease? Trying to look at it from the doctor's viewpoints, how uncomfortable for these doctors (who are already obviously very uncomfortable with it) having to discuss this with these parents face to face. It's all just so awkward and weird. The push for this vaccine is really creepy. I hope that these doctors stand strong in their stance. There is a reason they don't feel an urgency for this vaccine, and I'm glad they are leaning on the side of conservative measures when it comes to the HPV vaccine.
There is an URGENCY for the vaccine. It prevents cancer. Every single pre-teen left unvaxed is a potential cancer victim. 4,000 people died last year from cervical cancer and then there are all the anal cancers and throat cancers and nose cancers and so on that could be prevented if doctors would just step up and do their bit.

[sorry to the pro-vaxers, but I'm really getting a kick out of channeling your positions, so I'm not going to stop. you are free, however, to quote what I say and rewrite it so it properly represents the pro-vaccine position. It will help me to improve my channeling :x]
 
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Another group of parents to get worked up - wonder how well this will go over!

http://www.fox28.com/story/30368779...epartment-letters-encouraging-hpv-vaccination

Family physician Dr. Ken Elek said he's not sure why the government would reach out to families about the HPV vaccine. Even though he recommends everyone get it, he said it's a choice between the parent, the child and their personal physician.
A choice??? :lol


Many doctors encourage parents to have their kids vaccinated, since HPV can cause cervical cancer in women.
- Oh, someone is spreading lies again! "MANY" Dr's.........no, not really!!!!

http://fox59.com/2015/10/26/governor-looking-into-states-hpv-vaccine-letters/

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...e-hpv-vaccine-email-draws-criticism/74472460/

Parental Rights!! http://www.journalgazette.net/news/local/indiana/HPV-vaccine-letters-draw-criticism-9495109
 

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I do not think so. I am close to 100% certain that most people do not know of the issues with Merck...yet huge swathes of the population (50%?) refuse the vaccine for their children.

I do not even think most doctors know Merck is accused of fudging numbers. I think vaccine geeks know Merck is accused of fudging numbers, but we are a small percentage of the population.

I think HPV is unpopular for a variety of reasons, but the biggest is people have concerns about its safety. Those pesky girls who are in perfect health until they have the HPV vaccine speaking out about their lives post vaccine are harder to ignore than babies (who can neither speak or have much of a health history).
I agree. The issue has gotten a fair bit of mainstream media attention in addition to the online chatter, so whether or not it is actually harming girls, the perception that it is dangerous is certainly there.

Also though, I think a good amount of it is that some parents seem uncomfortable (or loudly against...) vaccinating children or even teens against an STD, especially in more conservative areas, when of course their daughters are going to keep their legs shut until marriage...

There was an issue here a few years ago with Catholic schools in Calgary with the Bishop there refusing to allow Gardasil to be given in Catholic schools there. I don't recall that he ever mentioned any concerns over safety of the vaccine itself - his stated reason was that it would undermine the Catholic schools' teachings of abstinance and chastity. I'm not actually sure how that was resolved, now that I think of it.

I do remember comparisons being made between the high uptake of girls in Edmonton Catholic schools and the low uptake of girls who attended Calgary Catholic schools.

I wonder how overall the rate of uptake is for here, where it is given routinely in schools, to the rate in the states? I'd be willig to bet much higher here.
 

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The article in the OP says that doctors refusal to push this vaccine isn't due to any, (heaven forbid), clinical expertise. They're just "uncomfortable" talking about it with their patients. The same people who prescribe birth control, treat yeast infections, and stick their gloved hands into women's nether regions are suddenly unable to talk about HPV. Yea. Whatever. When all else fails, accuse the skeptics of being prudes.
I'm sure for some it is probably the marketing thing you mentioned.

But for others, yes, I think the unfomfortable thing is valid. I certainly hope they would be comfortable bringing it up with adults and even older teens, but Gardasil is recommended from a much younger age than most kids are sexually active, and I can see how doctors would be uncomfortable bringing it up with parents of tweens and young teens, especially in more conservative areas. The uptake rates they mention for that article are for 13 to 17 year olds. Toward the 17 end I'd expect the rate is harder and doctors more willing to talk, but 13 year olds are not typically offered birth control routinely (which is not to say that it is not available to them, just that it isn't automatically offered), nor do most of them get routine pelvic exams at that age.
 

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I'm sure for some it is probably the marketing thing you mentioned.
The prudishness hypothesis is based largely on speculation and stereotyping. And yet it still gets mentioned a lot by Gardasil's cheerleaders because it's the easiest strawman to beat up on. But it doesn't explain how the loudest Evangelical, legs-closed-until-marriage organization in the U.S., Focus on the Family, encourages voluntary (i.e. not government-mandated) Gardasil use, in part because:

* HPV infection can result from sexual assault, including date rape;

* A young person may marry someone previously exposed to still carrying the virus.
It doesn't explain why the Catholic Medical Association is a major marketing mouthpiece for Gardasil. Finally, it also doesn't explain why such fierce opposition to routine Gardasil is coming from countries such as Japan and Denmark, whose cultures I'd hardly consider sexually uptight. Honestly, without well-designed poll, (and even then with some caveats), I'd be super cautious before ascribing motives to or making assumptions about people turning down this vaccine.
 

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@Turquesa, let me guess --you don't live in the bible belt.

I've lived in the bible belt my entire life (save for a few years when went to boarding school in Virginia) and I can tell you that it is absolutely a "thing" here. Parents see it as almost analogous to handing out a box of condoms to their 11 year old. They think if their kid assumes they are protected against STDs they are going to be less worried about the risks of having sex and thus be more likely to do so.

A vaccine against a sexually transmitted disease can be a hard sell to really religious, conservative parents.
 

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@teacozy

Rhode Island and Indiana are now in the Bible Belt?
Indiana might be a bit.

In Rhode Island it was just a few crazies and the news media has stopped paying attention. They'll all give in and get their kids vaxed and stop worrying about what is transmissible at school and what isn't. You'll see.
 

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Indiana might be a bit.
That "belt" much be getting larger to stretch all the way there too! :eek: obese I suppose it now must be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ETA-techincally they still aren't in that "belt" ............. RI, not even close! What is wrong with those parents??? When you do have so many other states that are not "in the belt" still you don't have the up-tick - all those blue liberal states that DO hand out condoms aren't buying it either!
 

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That "belt" much be getting larger to stretch all the way there too! :eek: obese I suppose it now must be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ETA-techincally they still aren't in that "belt" ............. RI, not even close! What is wrong with those parents??? When you do have so many other states that are not "in the belt" still you don't have the up-tick - all those blue liberal states that DO hand out condoms aren't buying it either!
Way...back...when

Indiana was Bible Belt. My mother lived on a farm near La Porte Indiana. They were considered really weird. Why? They were Jewish. They read books. My uncle played the piano.

Times have changed.
 
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