[cjuniverse]

Hi ladies.

Well, it's (un)officially a bust. My relationship with my lover is over, as far as I'm concerned (haven't had 'the talk' yet, but it's coming).

It's a lot of things...very different perspectives on life I thought we could get past (turns out we can't), different wants/needs I thought we could reconcile (turns out not), and basically a garden variety case of square peg dating round hole.

I'm sad, but mostly accepting. I think I'm mostly sad for Ryo...I so don't want to uproot him again in any way, but now that I know for sure it's not going to work out, I have no choice but to do so.

The living situation will remain unchanged for at least a couple of months while we work out the financial crap, which really really sucks, but it's the only way to avoid bad/crazy situations none of us need.

I very much need to re-evaluate (or hell, DEVELOP) criteria for dating. There have to be some basic f*cking standards that are non-negotiable. I have got to stop with the jumping into things and hoping they'll work out. I have a child for freak's sake. I can't do this sh*t anymore.

A short list that I'll add to later :

1. He/she/they must ABSOLUTELY be open to having more children. Period. This is one of the main reasons my soon-to-be former lover and me are splitting up.

2. He/she/they must ABSOLUTELY be open to polyamorous/non-monogamous/non-traditional lifestyles. Period. This is one of the other main reasons my soon-to-be former lover and me are splitting up.

3. He/she/they must ABSOLUTELY be self-aware, conscientious, principled, ethical, and politically conscious/progressive. This is one of the other main reasons my soon-to-be former lover and me are splitting up.

4. He/she/they must ABSOLUTELY be fun-loving, spontaneous, kind, compassionate, gentle, good-hearted, easy-going, deeply loving. Honestly and for real, not some shallow show to impress/charm. These would comprise the majority of the remainder of reasons my soon-to-be lover and me are splitting up.

This sucks so very, very bad.

Anyway, if there are any other single mamis out there going through something similar, this thread is for you too. Vent, rage, make lists, whatever. I just need a little motivational circle of inspiration/commiseration right now.

 

[MsChatsAlot]

I'm wishing you peace, healing & inspiration as you make your way through this transition.

 

[mommato5]

deleted

 

[cjuniverse]

MsChatsAlot -

Thanks for the well-wishes.

Mommato5 -

A duck is a duck. If it quacks, own up to it.

 

[mmace]

I'm so sorry, cjuniverse. I am in much the same position - my sweetheart and I broke up back in the beginning of September. My list is this:

1. He must ABSOLUTELY be open to getting married and truly sharing a life together. Not, "yes I want to get married again someday..." in the abstract. I'm not saying that everyone I date should be ready to immediately move to that point, but I don't want to have the wishy-washy back and forth thing going on. I *know* that if I find someone and fall deeply in love with him that that will be the next logical step for me - I'm not on a husband hunt - but that is something I want again someday.

Truly, that's the only thing that was lacking between us - I needed more than he wanted to give. It's honestly very sad.

 

[guestmama9915]

I'm so sorry. But yeah, some of those are basics (for you) so I hope you'll stick to them! That sucks about having to live together for a while... almost always very unpleasant.

I've been inspired to write a must-haves list myself. It seems such a basic thing, and yet I find people in my life who don't even meet my basic needs. Weird.

 

[eccomama]

i am also letting go of a 2 year relationship cuz i realized that I almost settled again. like you now i wrote down my musts and when i looked over my list, I realized that my bf and I were worlds apart.
it takes a lot to walk away...hugs...

 

[cjuniverse]

Thanks mamis...you're all wonderful! Will have to wait until the little one is with his dad next week to break the news to soon-to-be ex...which I am finding incredibly difficult.

I do love this man, you know? It's just not going to work. Love is not a factor in keeping us together. I have my needs, they are not being met. He cannot meet them on any level.

F*CK this sucks.

 

[guestmama9915]

Yeah. Love is not enough. Sorry you're going through this.

 

[cjuniverse]

Thanks, tripleaces. I'm kind of numb right now.

 

[DanishMom]

I'm so sorry CJ. I've been reading your blog for a long long time. I know that you have thought about these things for a long time. Such a hard decision to make. Good luck.

 

[cjuniverse]

Danishmom -

Thanks for reading, and for posting here. We had sort of a talk last night, and he said he could try to be open to both having a child/poly, but it feels forced and insincere, you know? Like he'll do/say anything to keep me, not like he's done any thinking/searching on the matter.

It is very hard. This man adores me. He doesn't always have a clue how to show it, but the love is there and sometimes, it's spectacular! He is learning to love my son (he doesn't care for children under 5, and I try to understand that because I used to be the same way...but how understanding should I be of that, really? This is my baby, and whoever I'm with needs to love him...that's another GIGANTIC issue...he acts so irritated by my son, like he is a burden...though of course it feels that way sometimes for even parents, I know it isn't right, and we fight about it a lot).

It's also very hard because I am a full-blown co-dependent, and have depended on others to care for me since I became an adult, at least in the legal/social sense. I don't know that I've ever behaved/felt like an adult. There's always been someone there to cushion the fall/do things for me/act as a buffer to the harsh realities of living as an adult. I've been shielded from things I should have learned to handle years ago for far too long. I know that.

I'm terrified of what will happen once the buffer is gone. Will I fall apart? Will I emotionally (or even totally) abandon my son? Will I descend into madness, like my mother did? I'm aghast at what I'm capable of, the glimpses of total insanity I see/feel in myself sometimes. Sometimes, being with my lover seems to be the only way to keep the demons at bay. I'm truly afraid of what will go down once they have me all to themselves with no distractions. I've had someone around to keep me in check, keep me somewhat centered, forever. I've never learned to center myself or keep myself in check. Will I rise to the occasion, or sink beneath dysfunction? These are the questions I'm petrified to ask, and even more petrified to learn/experience. Sometimes I feel like I can't afford to learn the hard way anymore. Not with Ryo. Sometimes I feel like I'll do anything to protect him from seeing me lose it...even stay with someone who is not good for either of us (though abuse will never be tolerated, not even by weak-arse me).

Mamis, I know most of you don't get this and never could. I understand. It must look like the rantings of a complete lunatic. It probably is.

I know I have to do this, I know that. I just don't know if I have the strength/resolve/emotional and mental stability to make it on my own and take care of my son alone.

I'm really, really scared of what the future holds if I do this. I can't afford to screw up this time.

I'll be okay. I think. I just have to find the courage...and build/find some sort of safety net/support network. Once my lover is gone...there'll be nobody. My best friend is in another state (and unable to help in any way), I'm estranged from my family and my ex-husband, while extraordinarily helpful in some ways, will not be helpful here.

This is a nightmare. I keep hoping I'll wake up and everything will be worked out already. But I'm going to have to endure it. I have to find a way to survive.

I'm going to try.

 

[DanishMom]

CJ: I'm sorry for making this even more hard and confusing but I need to tell you that I think it would be a mistake to break up with him. Of course I don't know that for sure, only you do, but I've been reading your blog for more than a year and this man obviously loves you a lot. I've been through a lot of hard stuff too, so I actually do understand why you are afraid that you might loose it if your break up with him and are on your own. Relationships (that is if they aren't abusive or otherwise unhealthy) tend to have a stabilizing effect and I think that everybody would feel a bit disorganized during a difficult break up from someone they love. If you are a bit disorganized to begin with, like I am and you might be too (which you and I know isn't a bad thing and certainly not something we should feel ashamed about), a break up might make it hard for you to be a great mami.

Now please know that if I didn't believe that you two love each other, I wouldn't suggest that you stay together just because the relationships provides stability. I'm in a relationship with lots of differences in values on every level. It does work and we love each other a lot. I know that it can be really annoying at times, but it doesn't have to be a reason for breaking up.

I'll support your decision know matter what! Many hugs.

PS: you can PM me if you need to talk.

 

[Holland73]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanishMom Now please know that if I didn't believe that you two love each other, I wouldn't suggest that you stay together just because the relationships provides stability.

IMO/E, love isn't what keeps people together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanishMom I'm in a relationship with lots of differences in values on every level. It does work and we love each other a lot. I know that it can be really annoying at times, but it doesn't have to be a reason for breaking up.

I also agree that relationship can work out, even if there are a lot of difference in values... BUT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjuniverse to be open to both having a child/poly

a difference in values regarding having a child and being in a poly relationship are two values that MUST be shared by both parties. Those are HUGE and have such a major impact on a relationship. If both parties are not in full agreement... what a disaster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjuniverse We had sort of a talk last night, and he said he could try to be open to both having a child/poly , but it feels forced and insincere, you know? Like he'll do/say anything to keep me, not like he's done any thinking/searching on the matter.

It is good to be cautious and aware of his actions and the underlying feelings behind the words.

 

[cjuniverse]

DanishMom -

Thanks for the thoughts. My thoughts have been all over the place (as usual, which I know you totally get from having read me!).

This feels like 'the' decision, you know? Also, when I hear you say that you don't think I should break up with him because he loves me (though you also do understand that I love him and that is and should be a factor), I hear warning bells, because some former friends of mine said the same about me and my ex (which was a scenario light-years worse than what I'm dealing with now...I'm still amazed, to this day, that anyone suggested it would/could be good for me!). That turned into a black hole of doom, so I'm worried that following the same advice here could result in the same...even though I know the circumstances are not exact, it feels unsettling.

That, and sometimes I really do feel like the only way to get off my butt and learn to be in the world is to do just that. Get off my butt (and pull my head out of it while I'm at it!), get my head out of being somebody's somebody, and learn to be in the world. Learn to be alone. Learn to work/focus on myself. Learn to just be. No relationships, no twisted convoluted compromises to keep things together. The ensuing chaos of letting all that go, and the hope of a peace deeper and more sound than anything I've ever known. The time to sit with myself, see what's up, what's wrong, what needs to be worked on, what needs to be discarded, what needs to be done, what needs to be undone, what's perfectly fine as is and just what's in there. As of this moment, I've never really taken the time to learn just who exactly I'm dealing with here, as far as myself.

Then, there's me feeling I've always been told what to do as far as my life choices. I've always been guided or pushed or coerced or shamed/guilted into doing things. I've never had the opportunity to make choices borne of my true wants/needs/desires. Always in someone else's best interest or what someone else thinks is best for me. Probably a good chunk of why I don't know how I really feel/what I really think about things. The knowing comes from the doing. I've never done!

It's pretty freakin' complicated, that's for sure. Still thinking. Still doing the emotional/mental math. I'll get there.

Thanks for the advice/ideas/commiseration.

 

[DanishMom]

Sounds like it would be great to separate for a while. It must be so hard to make that kind of decision when you still live together.

BTW: I really love your blog and your writing. I'd wish I could write like that - (in Danish that would be!).

 

[mytwogirls]

I have absolutely no advice for you but I am sorry things are not working out. I wish you the best.

 

[guestmama9915]

I've also read your blog, CJ. I don't know what the right decision to make is, but I did want to just give some thoughts.

I also find it very difficult to be alone. It's like I need someone there to keep me grounded, otherwise I get lost in my own head and it can be really, really hard not to get stuck in the chaos there.

Since leaving my kid's dad things have been hard. I don't want to get into too many details but I am at least most of the time now at a place where I feel like I can actually handle it. I fall apart sometimes daily but when the kids get home I somehow (most of the time) put myself back together and trudge on. Some days are much better. I've gone days at a time when I just felt absolutely wonderful, which is so surprising to me.

I know you suffer from anxiety/depression, which I do, too. Just wondering what you're doing in that department? If you do decide to go at it without your buffers, you need to make sure to take care of yourself as much as possible. If I miss a day of taking care of myself (I take various vitamins/fish oil and absolutely *must* exercise/go outside), then it really makes it harder for me to keep things together.

Good luck in whatever decision you make.

It sounds to me like you have a lot of self learning to do. If you ever need someone to talk to, feel free to PM me.

 

[cjuniverse]

Holland73 -

YES. That's it, exactly! There are some things you can compromise on. Where to live, the sexual aspects (sometimes), trivial social stuff and generally more trivial/less central day-to-day matters.

But these, having another child and being poly, are not at all trivial. They are central, both to what I want and who I am. They are non-negotiable.

As I said to my lover last night during our talk, that's why they call them deal-breakers...because they are what can, and often does, make or break the relationship 'deal'.

I am intensely focused on my lover's intentions here, because I know from experience with him that he will say what he needs to say to 'satisfy' me, at least verbally and momentarily. In a few hours/days, it will be like we never had the conversation. He 'forgets'.

What he's actually doing, though, and I don't know that he's aware of this on a conscious level (because he's not a deep thinker at all, and from what I can tell has almost no capacity for reflection and is strikingly unaware of himself), is dodging the issue. He doesn't like dealing with things. He is intolerant to any type of discomfort, especially emotional. His parents never dealt in emotional growth, on their own or as a partnership. If they disagreed on something, they ignored the disagreement and never discussed it again. They have an extremely odd (and in my opinion, unhealthy) emotional arrangement, and I think he's just doing what he knows and copying their example. It's extremely sad, and incredibly frustrating, to be in a relationship with someone who refuses to acknowledge/deal with/work on things. He wants to ignore it, and pretend it will go away. It never does, and no matter what I do or say, nothing changes with him. He'll make surface gestures for a few days/weeks, then slip right back into habit, almost in a daze.

He has no sense of himself. He doesn't know who he is, at all. I don't think he knows what he wants either. I think he copies others and does what others think he should do. He is jaw-droppingly, and I mean this literally, blank as far as his internal life. I could even go so far to as to say he doesn't have an internal life. It's very creepy...especially to someone like me who is all cerebral and complicated and stuck in my head.

Anyway, I'm rambling, but wanted to say that you blew me away with that post. It articulated my own thoughts better than I could. You rock!

 

[DanishMom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripleaces I've also read your blog, CJ. I don't know what the right decision to make is, but I did want to just give some thoughts. I also find it very difficult to be alone. It's like I need someone there to keep me grounded, otherwise I get lost in my own head and it can be really, really hard not to get stuck in the chaos there. Since leaving my kid's dad things have been hard. I don't want to get into too many details but I am at least most of the time now at a place where I feel like I can actually handle it. I fall apart sometimes daily but when the kids get home I somehow (most of the time) put myself back together and trudge on. Some days are much better. I've gone days at a time when I just felt absolutely wonderful, which is so surprising to me. I know you suffer from anxiety/depression, which I do, too. Just wondering what you're doing in that department? If you do decide to go at it without your buffers, you need to make sure to take care of yourself as much as possible. If I miss a day of taking care of myself (I take various vitamins/fish oil and absolutely *must* exercise/go outside), then it really makes it harder for me to keep things together. Good luck in whatever decision you make. It sounds to me like you have a lot of self learning to do. If you ever need someone to talk to, feel free to PM me.

Yeah to that!