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Discussion Starter #1
<p>I'm not asking about beliefs and whatnot...I'm asking about rules.</p>
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<p>Mary and Joseph went to the inn alone. No other women or anyone around to help.</p>
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<p>Was Joseph in violation of any rules by delivering baby Jesus? Isn't it for a certain amount of days he wouldn't be "allowed" to touch Mary because of her bleeding or whatever? So, wouldn't he have violated rules by taking care of her? I mean, no one else would have been around to help with the delivery or to help after the baby was born...so I have to assume it was all up to him.</p>
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<p>Help this ignorant Christian! :lol</p>
 

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<p><br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>AFWife</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283038/jewish-mamas-a-question-about-jesus-stay-with-me-lol#post_16087334"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>I'm not asking about beliefs and whatnot...I'm asking about rules.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Mary and Joseph went to the inn alone. No other women or anyone around to help.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Was Joseph in violation of any rules by delivering baby Jesus? Isn't it for a certain amount of days he wouldn't be "allowed" to touch Mary because of her bleeding or whatever? So, wouldn't he have violated rules by taking care of her? I mean, no one else would have been around to help with the delivery or to help after the baby was born...so I have to assume it was all up to him.</p>
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<p>Help this ignorant Christian! :lol</p>
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<br><br><p>I'm not Christian nor Jewish, but I don't see anything in the Bible that says Joseph helped with the delivery. What I've read says that Mary delivered her baby, and that is all.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also....the story goes that the Holy Spirit made Mary conceive. Maybe the Holy Spirit helped with the delivery.</p>
 

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Discussion Starter #3
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>2xy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283038/jewish-mamas-a-question-about-jesus-stay-with-me-lol#post_16087397"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p><br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>AFWife</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283038/jewish-mamas-a-question-about-jesus-stay-with-me-lol#post_16087334"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>I'm not asking about beliefs and whatnot...I'm asking about rules.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Mary and Joseph went to the inn alone. No other women or anyone around to help.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Was Joseph in violation of any rules by delivering baby Jesus? Isn't it for a certain amount of days he wouldn't be "allowed" to touch Mary because of her bleeding or whatever? So, wouldn't he have violated rules by taking care of her? I mean, no one else would have been around to help with the delivery or to help after the baby was born...so I have to assume it was all up to him.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Help this ignorant Christian! :lol</p>
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<br><br><p>I'm not Christian nor Jewish, but I don't see anything in the Bible that says Joseph helped with the delivery. What I've read says that Mary delivered her baby, and that is all.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also....the story goes that the Holy Spirit made Mary conceive. Maybe the Holy Spirit helped with the delivery.</p>
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<p><br>
So he stood outside and waited? I can maybe see that...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What about post partum?</p>
 

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<p>If there was no one else around to care for the birthing mother, then there is no question of "violating the law" or the like.  The mother's life overrides here.  So in that case the husband would be required to help her, and, yes, to touch her when necessary.</p>
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<p>The violation of law comes if you're delivering with the help of a midwife or doctor and there is someone there to care for you <em>and if the husband's presence is not critical for you,</em> then according to the basic halakha (Jewish law), the mother is nidda (meaning the husband is supposed to keep his hands to himself ;) ) when either she has uterine bleeding or when she is unable to walk unaided.  </p>
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<p>So don't worry about Joseph having "violated... laws."  He didn't.</p>
 

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Discussion Starter #5
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>merpk</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283038/jewish-mamas-a-question-about-jesus-stay-with-me-lol#post_16088012"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>If there was no one else around to care for the birthing mother, then there is no question of "violating the law" or the like.  The mother's life overrides here.  So in that case the husband would be required to help her, and, yes, to touch her when necessary.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The violation of law comes if you're delivering with the help of a midwife or doctor and there is someone there to care for you <em>and if the husband's presence is not critical for you,</em> then according to the basic halakha (Jewish law), the mother is nidda (meaning the husband is supposed to keep his hands to himself ;) ) when either she has uterine bleeding or when she is unable to walk unaided.  </p>
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<p>So don't worry about Joseph having "violated... laws."  He didn't.</p>
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<p><br>
I didn't know that :) Thank you!</p>
 

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<p>I really think that there would be a midwife or woman in the town/village. Maybe Mary was an UC'er?</p>
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Discussion Starter #7
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Nazsmum</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283038/jewish-mamas-a-question-about-jesus-stay-with-me-lol#post_16088842"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>I really think that there would be a midwife or woman in the town/village. Maybe Mary was an UC'er?</p>
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<br><br><p>Hmmm or maybe the inn keeper's wife?</p>
 

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<p>Many Catholic theologians surmise that a midwife was present.</p>
 

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<p>Other then the midwivies in EXODUS are they ever mentioned again. I don't remember ever reading about "the birth". It would just say she gave birth to a son/daughter/child/baby.</p>
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<p>Mary was in a very crowded city with the cenus going on. So I would think that one midwife would be in the bunch?</p>
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<p>If Joseph did help her it would OK too. I alway wonder about Eve. Being the first to go though the whole thing and all. What did Adam and Eve do when she had her first baby. That I would like to be a fly on the wall.....</p>
 

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<p>If you look at icons of the nativity, there are midwives.</p>
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<p><a class="H-lightbox-open" href="http://www.mothering.com/community/content/type/61/id/456403/width/1000/height/800/flags/" target="_blank"><img alt="800px-Mural_-_Birth_of_Christ.jpg" class="lightbox-enabled" data-id="16600" data-type="61" height="500" src="http://www.mothering.com/community/content/type/61/id/16600/width/750/height/500" style="; width: 750px; height: 500px;" width="750"></a></p>
 

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<p>Bluegoat, you beat me to it! I was going to chime in on that. I have always loved the icon of the nativity, and the midwives are one of the many reasons it's close to my heart. <span><img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"></span></p>
 

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<p>Quote:</p>
<div class="quote-container">
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Nazsmum</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283038/jewish-mamas-a-question-about-jesus-stay-with-me-lol#post_16088967"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>If Joseph did help her it would OK too. I alway wonder about Eve. Being the first to go though the whole thing and all. What did Adam and Eve do when she had her first baby. That I would like to be a fly on the wall.....</p>
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<br><br><p>I imagine that Eve would have been physically near-perfect, so it probably went pretty easily.</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>weliveintheforest</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283038/jewish-mamas-a-question-about-jesus-stay-with-me-lol#post_16093428"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><br><p>I imagine that Eve would have been physically near-perfect, so it probably went pretty easily.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>But Eve gave birth after the "fall". Nothing was perfect anymore; especially childbirth.<br>
 </p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>2xy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283038/jewish-mamas-a-question-about-jesus-stay-with-me-lol#post_16098990"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>weliveintheforest</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283038/jewish-mamas-a-question-about-jesus-stay-with-me-lol#post_16093428"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><br><p>I imagine that Eve would have been physically near-perfect, so it probably went pretty easily.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>But Eve gave birth after the "fall". Nothing was perfect anymore; especially childbirth.<br>
 </p>
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<br><br><p>God cursed her especially with pain in childbirth, right? </p>
 

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<p class="verses">Yes, here it is underlined.</p>
<p class="verses"> </p>
<p class="verses"><b class="versenum">14</b> And Jehovah God said to the serpent, Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all the cattle And more than all the animals of the field: Upon your stomach you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life.</p>
<p class="verses"><b class="versenum">15</b> And I will put enmity Between you and the woman And between your seed and her seed; He will bruise you on the head, But you will bruise him on the heel.</p>
<p class="verses"><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><b class="versenum">16</b> To the woman He said, I will greatly multiply Your pain in your childbearing; In pain you will bring forth children. And your desire will be to your husband, And he will rule over you.</span></p>
<p class="verses"><b class="versenum">17</b> And to Adam He said, Because you listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree concerning which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil will you eat of it All the days of your life.</p>
<p class="verses"><b class="versenum">18</b> And thorns and thistles it will bring forth for you, And you will eat the herb of the field;</p>
<p class="verses"><b class="versenum">19</b> By the sweat of your face You will eat bread Until you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.</p>
<p class="verses"> </p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>2xy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283038/jewish-mamas-a-question-about-jesus-stay-with-me-lol#post_16098990"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>weliveintheforest</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283038/jewish-mamas-a-question-about-jesus-stay-with-me-lol#post_16093428"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><br><p>I imagine that Eve would have been physically near-perfect, so it probably went pretty easily.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>But Eve gave birth after the "fall". Nothing was perfect anymore; especially childbirth.<br>
 </p>
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<p>Yes, this.  Furthermore, God drove them out of the Garden of Eden and used a cheribum to block the tree of life (represents God as their life source and supply).  So the relationship between God and Adam/Eve was greatly effected by their choosing the wrong tree.<br>
 </p>
 

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<p>However, many people think that over time we have become much less physically perfect as we have grown further from God.  So we have even Cain who can see and talk to God directlky, and Noah, and others, and also people who had a long life-span.  It's one school of thought anyway, and quite an old one.</p>
 

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<p>Yes, I see the fall as a progressive state of falling away from God beginning from Adam.   When Moses was given the Law to give to the children of Israel it acted like somewhat of a 'stop' although it didn't stop sin.  It just made them very much aware of who God is and God's standard, which helped them to try and reach God's standard.</p>
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<p>Well, we all know how well that worked. lol No one can live up to God's standard, but Christ can.  Now we can be joined to Christ, who can can fulfill all of God's standards.</p>
 
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