[MrsMoe]

Well, getting a Doctor has been the world's largest annoyance for me. Let me give you a brief history of me - I am American, immigrating to Canada. I am not covered by OHIP yet (Canadian free healthcare.) I am used to calling who I want, making an appointment, usually same week, and being done with it. Well, knock me over with a feather! Not this time! Here is the dealio.

I wanted a home birth and mid-wife. When I contacted the midwife center I was told they would not do a homebirth with me due to medical history. Previous preeclampsia, mitral valve with regurg (heart) and thryoid disease. They only do "low-risk." You have to get an OBGYN they say. OK, yuck, but what can I do.

Then my father (grandfather by birth - I am adopted) back home in Florida vomits bile and goes to the hosptial - ti's not looking so good (he is 77 years old.) He has advanced sclerosis of the liver, 15% of his heart, and his gallbladder was severely infected. I flew to Florida- was there on his death bed, and with him throug ha surgery he had only a 10% chance of living through (removal of gallbladder.) He made it, and I lived with him nursing him back to health, chaning his diapers, lifting him in and out of bed, changing his urinals, and to be honest, being there was very very stressful. We aren't exactally "close," but regardless of who he is, I love him, I just don't like him. Once he is well enough to take care of himself I fly back home. A month has now passed.

I am now in my second trimester. Clock is ticking. Trying to get a regular Doctor. To get an OBGYN in Canada, you need a Doctor to write a referral. It is a requirement of Canada, even if I am paying out of pocket. But there is a Doctor shortage, and I cannot find a Doctor willing to accept new patients. I didn't know Canada requires referrals, so I call the OBGYN I want to go to (referred by friend who had twins.) No, they won't take me, I need a referral, but go to a clinic, they will give me one.

At this point, I feel sick off and on with headaches and climbing blood pressure. (This is weeks ago by the way.)

So, I go to a clinic one evening when my husband gets back from work. They turn me away, tell me to go home, they do not write referrals to OBGYN's. I say, help me! My blood pressure is high! They say, go to the Women's Clinic, they handle labor and delivery.

Now I am 17 weeks. The clock is ticking, and I am getting annoyed.

So, I call the Women's Clinic to make an appointment. They won't see me. They don't have OBGYN's and I am too risky. They tell me to go to a different clinic, that that one was way out of line to refuse me medical care. They also give me a name of a doctor taking new patients. That was very very good news, as new Doctors taking new patients is rare in Canada these days(it's even worse in other areas of Canada - it's the best here because I am near Toronto in Hamilton.)

I call the Doctor taking new patients. I have to wait a month to get in, no earlier. Please can I get in earlier? No sorry, it's the best we can do. They told me they will get me a referral to an OBGYN, but expect to wait to get into the OBGYN after I get the referral, it could also take a month. ACK! Two months from now? Oh great... now... now I am mad, nervous, and scared.

So, I call and visit every clinic in the area. FOUR CLINICS LATER - refused. No clinic will see me. They actually SEND ME HOME. At this point, I am crying.. I was told to go to the hospital.

Before I even bother going ot the hosptial, I call. Glad I did. They tell me I can go to the ER, but the nurse tells me the ER very likely will NOT write me a referral to an OBGYN. I need a referral from a family Doctor. The ER can only treat me for high blood pressure. I said would they medically treat me? She said she cannot say, if it is not severe, they will likely order bed rest, but of course this is for a doctor to decide. She said it was best that an OBGYN treat me. I said what if it is preeclampsia? She says, come in and see. But I had this feeling that with BP of only 140/95, they won't take me seriously, and they won't write a referral to an OBGYN, so WHY BOTHER!!!!!

Now, I am in crying again. Like a big huge baby. Ok, so I DID get a Doctor, but I have to wait a month to see him. Then it will take a while from there after getting the referral to get an OBGYN. By then I will be in labor or dead from the heart attack this is giving me!!!

So I, last ditch effort. I call the OBGYN I want to go to. This doctor is a Professor at McMaster University, and this isn't just any University. They have a rep as one of the best Universities in Canada and is considered "World Class." Now, I have been warned by people, including people on this forum - good luck in getting him because of who he is. I tell the girl over the phone the events leading up until now. She wants details as to my medical history, how far along I am, last period, phone number, and says she will call me back.

She calls me back a half hour later. She spoke with the Doctor, he said he wanted to wave the referral and see me next week. You have no idea how good this makes me feel. Already I feel like the Doctor CARES! And the young lady who helped me, wow.

 

[greenmansions]

Welcome to Canada! I am so not surprised by your story.

My grandparents lived in Toronto, and my grandma was on a 3-year wait list for cataract surgery - she never got it because she died of endometrial cancer first - the surgery was botched so she couldn't start chemo for 6 months after the surgery and by then it was too late.

Then my grandpa needed his enlarged prostate removed - 2 years wait and botched too - he had severe bleeding twice and they had to repeat part of the procedure both times.

My cousin in Vancouver has very swollen legs and dizziness, can't get into a doctor for 6 months. She had to see some alternative type person - no wait there - who told her it was just menopause coming on and to go home and keep her feet up. She is still swollen & dizzy and still waiting to get into a real doctor.

And people here in the good ole USA want a Canadian - style system? No thank you.

 

[~Megan~]

Wow, that is so messed up! I'm glad you finally found someone.

 

[MrsMoe]

My husband's Aunt (his mother's sister - a precious precious woman) complained to her regular Doctor about pain she was having. He said it was a hernia and the pain was "in her mind." He REFUSED to write a referral. A year she went to him off and on.

She had cancer. It's fatal now, because it went untreated for too long.

I am honestly disgusted with Canadian healthcare right now. On one hand, I AM happy to see people getting healthcare that may not otherwise have it. But to be frank, in the US, if you are working, odds are you can get health insurance. If your employer doesn't provide it, you can pay privately or work for a company that does. If you are poor, you can get medicaid, or shared cost medicaid. Some states also have private health insuurance available at reduced costs. Most States offer health insurance for children for very small fees ($15 a month or even free.)

And, if you don't have health insurance and you DO have to pay out of pocket, at least you can GET A DOCTOR or go to a cheap government run clinic that will actually see you...

Most women in Canada cannot get OBGYN's anymore, there aren't enough. The only women who can get them are those who are high risk, as I was told by the Women's Health Center here in Hamilton. She told me it wasn't this way only a few short years ago. She expressed to me how bad things have become due to a shortage of doctors. By the way, the area I am in has more doctors than most other areas.

If I hadn't gotten the OBGYN to see me anyhow without a referral - or I wasnt' able to locate a Doctor taking new patients (which was a very likely scenario) I would have been forced to go to the US for my pregnancy, which is a long drive away, and you can get stuck at the border for hours. Since we only have one car, and my husband works, this would have not been good. And what if I was too far away from the US border?

 

[greenmansions]

Best of luck, Mrs Moe! I'm sure it will go smoothly if you are with a "top doc" like that. What good fortune to finally get in with him.

 

[flyingspaghettimama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsMoe I am honestly disgusted with Canadian healthcare right now... And, if you don't have health insurance and you DO have to pay out of pocket, at least you can GET A DOCTOR or go to a cheap government run clinic that will actually see you...

I think that you are in a very difficult situation ... but I do want to say that for many, many Americans the situation is equally horrible for other reasons. My brother in law is self employed, middle-class, pays $1000/month for a family of four for health insurance, which still only insures at 70% and not at all for some things, like oh, specialists. There have been two broken bones in the family in the past year, a gastrointestinal illness that required IV rehydration.... and now the family is in debt for almost $20,000. And they have the most affordable/most coverage plan that exists! There are no government run clinics where we live, not for emergencies or specialists. Maybe to get vaccines...I'm thankful that I have full coverage, but I feel sad for the people often stuck in the middle - middle class Americans. And even with my truly excellent coverage, I pay $75-100 for most prescriptions.

If maybe we could have a nice blend of Canadian-American style medicine - i.e. the cost of the Canandians and the efficiency (if you've got the money) of the Americans. I guess I'm joking.

Anyhow, good luck. I'm glad to hear you found someone who can really work with you - that must be your rebellious, ambitious American spirit.

 

[lucyem]

My BIL & his wife drove to Canada the week their son was due. They drove around until they found someone willing to induce her and gave birth in Canada. From what I can gather is that they were turned down by a few doctors but eventually found someone willing to see these crazy Americans.

 

[flyingspaghettimama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucyem My BIL & his wife drove to Canada the week their son was due. They drove around until they found someone willing to induce her and gave birth in Canada. From what I can gather is that they were turned down by a few doctors but eventually found someone willing to see these crazy Americans.

They intentionally wanted to give birth in Canada? I did not know that was even possible...dur.

That's gonna give me ideas...I could probably find a midwife up there...I'm in driving distance too...Hmm....

 

[RyvreWillow]

i guess it sucks to live anywhere, huh?

I don't know what it's like in other states, but here in Missouri, you could get medicaid, or at least a low-cost insurance plan from the state if you couldn't afford regular insurance (a family of four had to make something like $3000 or less per month). We used to fit comfortably well in this category, until a few weeks ago, when we all got letters that we're dropped as of July 1, and the new requirement is that a family of 4 make less than $400 a month...excuse me? That couldn't have changed incrementally instead of all at once? That basically drops...well...everyone that at least makes part-time, minimum wage. If you have a job, you're screwed.

 

[flyingspaghettimama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyvreWillow That basically drops...well...everyone that at least makes part-time, minimum wage. If you have a job, you're screwed.

That is SO not cool. I imagine that those downward pressures will keep expanding across the states. And businesses keep you under 30 hrs so they don't have to give you health insurance...it's really too bad that we can't have this "national pool" that we can buy into for not too much, like car insurance. Apparently that's how congressional coverage works. Lucky duckies, every one.

I do think every country has their version of the medical horror story. I have friends from France though, they seem pretty happy with their coverage, as long as you don't have to go to the ER. When we were over there, they had drs that would come to our apartment. That was pretty sweet. We didn't qualify for national coverage, but paid out of pocket, and it was CHEAP. When we went to a walk-in clinic in Canada, also extremely affordable. But it's different to need a specialist, as Mrs. Moe's example shows.

 

[MrsMoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by loraeileen I think that you are in a very difficult situation ... but I do want to say that for many, many Americans the situation is equally horrible for other reasons. My brother in law is self employed, middle-class, pays $1000/month for a family of four for health insurance, which still only insures at 70% and not at all for some things, like oh, specialists. There have been two broken bones in the family in the past year, a gastrointestinal illness that required IV rehydration.... and now the family is in debt for almost $20,000. And they have the most affordable/most coverage plan that exists! There are no government run clinics where we live, not for emergencies or specialists. Maybe to get vaccines...I'm thankful that I have full coverage, but I feel sad for the people often stuck in the middle - middle class Americans. And even with my truly excellent coverage, I pay $75-100 for most prescriptions. If maybe we could have a nice blend of Canadian-American style medicine - i.e. the cost of the Canandians and the efficiency (if you've got the money) of the Americans. I guess I'm joking. Anyhow, good luck. I'm glad to hear you found someone who can really work with you - that must be your rebellious, ambitious American spirit.

Good lord! That poor man. That is unreal! I assume that is that the best private plan he can get? I know in NY state, there is a government plan, a good one - by Blue Cross Blue Shield. In Florida state, there is nothing but a program for kids, the waiting list is long- and your income has to be rather low.

And yes, I agree, it is a shame they can't blend the American way with the Canadian way. The issue with this is, it would never be a good blend. The Conservative Party in Canada (like Republicans) want to privatize healthcare, but this could possibly create a bigger mess because of a transition to a two tier system.

The problem isn't the Canadian system itself, it's the fact that the doctors are not paid nearly as much as US doctors, so many Canadian docs go to the US and set up practice, leading to a shortage of doctors. Recently, in order to help correct this issue, Canada approved a 35% salary increase over the next 5 years for doctors willing to sign a contract and 4% increase for those not willing to sign the contract. This contract would limit them in some respects, and can actually be dropped by the government after 2 years for any reason they deem neccesary... but it is a good start in the right direction. Unfortunately, it's a bit too late.

The thing that irks me, is some corrupt people in the Liberal party (like Democrats) were just stung with making off with (taking money that they were not entitled to *cough*) 100 million - yes, 100 million - dollars. That 100 million dollars could have improved the healthcare system or other things.

Politicians and Governments are all so... tricksy!

:

 

[beachcomber]

As a Canadian I'm really torn by the downward spiral in the quality of healthcare here. On the one hand, I am glad that at least we have it. That anyone, rich or poor, can walk into a hospital with an illness or injury and get basic care. It bothers me, though, that "elective" and non-critical surgeries have such huge waiting lists. People who need procedures are suffering for months and even years because the system is so underfunded. It's appalling.

My step-mother was told years ago that she'd have to wait MONTHS to get an MRI scan to determine if her seizures, weakness, fatigue and slurred speech were due to a brain tumor and if so what kind. Since in Alberta there are some private clinics that run MRIs, CATs and other scans, they chose to put up the $1000 to have it done ASAP. It was a tumor. A big one. They got into surgery within a week and as a result further damage was minimized. I hate to think what kind of long term damage would have been done if they'd had to wait the 4 months for that MRI.

We've lived in BC for 4 years now. My husband who is diabetic can't seem to find a doctor who will take him. He's been to a number of walk in clinics to get scripts and such but doesn't have a regular physician. This frightens me because diabetes must be monitored continually. Symptoms of complications creep up over time. I don't want anything to happen to him, but we can't seem to get him into a doctor here.

 

[allgirls]

it's really regional...some areas have much better service than others...more doctors etc.

My father was sick...within a week he had seen several specialists and was diagnosed with cancer...he lived in Newfoundland..a week later he was taking his first chemo treatment

My nanny for my first 2 children got sick...diagnosed almost immediately and got treatment..again for cancer..She's in Ontario

My daughter was sick last week...I called my family dr. She got in immediately that morning.

I have never waited for service(I am in South Western Ontario) that was needed quickly but other services take their time(cosmetic lazer treatment form my daughter's birthmark onher face took several months)

Toronto patients wait, Hamilton is under serviced..I have gone to the emergency room in Stratford and only waited for 40minutes...in Kitchener it's average 5 hours

But at least we don't have to make a decision on whether to go to a dr based on our ability to pay...and that's a good thing!

I am sorry you had to go through this...hopefully you soon get a better experience with our country...

Welcome!

 

[MrsMoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by allgirls My father was sick...within a week he had seen several specialists and was diagnosed with cancer...he lived in Newfoundland..

I am glad your family was treated well.

We want to go to Newfoundland on vacation! I want to go "whale watching."

 

[shannon0218]

Yes, Hamilton is grossly underserviced right now. I'm in Halton and the only doc I've had to wait for is a gastroenteroligist--and even for that--my family doc found someone out of St. Joes in Toronto who gave me an appt 3 weeks from when she called. I had a referral to see an OB--I'd been spotting, my family doc couldn't get me an U/S for 10 days so she phoned in the refferal to the OB and they saw me next day and got an U/S appt for that afternoon.
That said, my father was hospitalized in Brampton for 10 days and they kept telling my mother there was no vascular surgeon available. His foot was blue adn swollen 3 mos after an arterial bypass surgery that never properly healed. He almost died in Brampton and was airlifted to Toronto Western, now, after 2.5 weeks he should be coming home tomorrow.
Mrs. Moe, if you get stuck again, just come into Milton or Credit Valley hospital, you won't wait long at all in Milton adn they have 3 OB's who rotate call times.

 

[wednesday]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsMoe But to be frank, in the US, if you are working, odds are you can get health insurance. If your employer doesn't provide it, you can pay privately or work for a company that does. If you are poor, you can get medicaid, or shared cost medicaid. Some states also have private health insuurance available at reduced costs. Most States offer health insurance for children for very small fees ($15 a month or even free.) And, if you don't have health insurance and you DO have to pay out of pocket, at least you can GET A DOCTOR or go to a cheap government run clinic that will actually see you...

Some Americans may have an overly rosy view of the Canadian system, but I have to say your description above is not really the reality in the US either. A lot of people are quite poor, but don't qualify for any kind of government-subsidized health coverage...something like a third of our population goes totally without. That is a lot of people slipping through the cracks! Or almost as bad, say you have an employer-sponsored plan but it's kind of a crummy one...you can find yourself paying premiums through your paycheck and STILL not being able to see a doctor very easily, because your plan limits you to doctors in their network, all of whom are "not taking new patients" from your plan or are considerable distance away or have, guess what, 4-8 week lag times in being able to schedule an appointment. That is VERY common here for those in the lower to middle class who are "lucky" enough to have an employer-sponsored plan.

From the sounds of the OP the issue is more of doctor shortage in Canada than a problem with socialized healthcare per se, although I suppose there are arguments about indirect effect of one on the other...just want to say there are areas of severe doctor shortages in the US as well...both in very rural and in very urban areas. I think it is a separate issue from the fact of a healthcare system being private vs. public.

It's just so ironic to me that a decade ago the big argument against socialized healthcare was that most middle class people (allegedly) would be paying more (in taxes) but getting less in actual benefits (the assumption being that there would be rationing and so on). Here we are a decade later and guess what--most middle class people in the US are paying significantly more in healthcare premiums/co-pays and yet receiving significantly less in benefits ANYWAY, poor people are still uninsured and I'll tell you what, SOMEBODY is laughing all the way to the bank, I'm sure.

 

[MrsMoe]

I think a lot depends on the State you live in in the US. NY state - as an example - has a decent Blue Cross Blue Shield plan available to residents who do not have health insurance at a cost based on a slider scale.

I always had great health insurance in the US, as did all my friends. This was in Southwest Florida, where many/most employers in our area offered health insurance. I guess we were lucky.

 

[Storm Bride]

Quote:

Originally Posted by loraeileen And even with my truly excellent coverage, I pay $75-100 for most prescriptions.

Canadian medical coverage (at least in BC) doesn't pay for prescriptions, either. You can get help if you're in the lower income categories, but most people pay full price for prescriptions.

We definitely don't have to pay for a lot of things that I hear Americans do have to pay for. DH is from TN, and he had coverage from his employer before he moved up here. He was paying about the same as I was at work (for an "extended health" plan) and had better coverage than I did. We were covered for the same things, but his limits were higher than mine. And, he wasn't paying the higher taxes on top of it. (Most Canadians pay federal and provincial income tax, and federal and provincial income tax - it's a huge whack.)

Standard medical (in BC...it varies from province to province) doesn't cover dental or prescriptions or any kind of medical "apparatus" (eg. blood glucose monitors, eyeglasses, crutches, etc., etc.). It covers some...I think it's 12 visits a year...appointments with chiropractors, physiotherapists, massage therapists and several other specialists - but you do have a user fee.

People worry about a two-tier system here, and it make me laugh. The people who can afford it just cross the border and have their medical needs taken care of in the US...so they get better care, and the money leaves the Canadian economy. To me, that's a lose-lose proposition.

Anyway...both systems have their flaws, obviously.

Oh - someone else mentioned that our doctors leave here because of the lower pay. I don't think it's that simple. I've heard many doctors complain about the paperwork involved with MSP (Medical Services Plan in BC), and there simply aren't enough doctors in the first place. We don't have enough openings in our medical schools for the number of doctors we need. The bureaucracy around our medical services is also unbelievably bloated.

 

[MrsMoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Bride We don't have enough openings in our medical schools for the number of doctors we need.

This is due in part because of removal of government funding to Universities. As a result, Universities have had to greatly increase tuition costs to make up for the missing funding, making it so that many capable students simply cannot afford to go to Med School. First year students pay on the average of 10k for that year - I know McMaster is over 17K. In Ontario this fee is the highest, as it can exceed 15K when other fees are added. This number of course rises every year. Who can afford that? Montreal fees average 3k per year. That is a big gap!

University of Toronto, $16,207
University of Montreal, $2,224

I took a look at the McMaster site http://65.39.131.180/Admin/Assets/Di...1-237df6d94a2c

Year 1, 2, and 3 are $14,445 plus $605 plus $2294 - total (including books)

So going to McMaster Medical School is...$17,344 EACH YEAR. *cough*

 

[MrsMoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Bride We don't have enough openings in our medical schools for the number of doctors we need.

This is due in part because of removal of government funding to Universities. As a result, Universities have had to greatly increase tuition costs to make up for the missing funding, making it so that many capable students simply cannot afford to go to Med School. First year students pay on the average of 10k for that year - I know McMaster is over 17K. In Ontario this fee is the highest, as it can exceed 15K when other fees are added. This number of course rises every year. Who can afford that? Montreal fees average 3k per year. That is a big gap!

University of Toronto, $16,207
University of Montreal, $2,224

I took a look at the McMaster site http://65.39.131.180/Admin/Assets/Di...1-237df6d94a2c

Year 1, 2, and 3 are $14,445 plus $605 plus $2294 (including books)

So going to McMaster Medical School is...$17,344 EACH YEAR. *cough*