[liz-hippymom]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>saimeiyu</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10822642"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
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Additionally, deliberately creating a shrinking population, as that site advocates, is foolish. You would create a population which necessitates inhumane treatment of non-producing members of society-- the elderly and disabled-- because there will not be enough caretakers to give them humane treatment. Every generation would see more elderly in need of care, and less people to give them that care. Add to that the disabled, and... Yeah. Bad idea. Life expectancy is growing. People need care for longer terms of years, because medical technology is extending lives. THAT is the major reason that the population is even growing at all right now. Unfortunately, that longer life also equates more care for many, if not all. And that care has to come from human beings; it can't come from machines. Either that, or we just stop the care and they die of something preventable. Life expectancy shrinks, so does the population. Lovely thought, huh?<br><br><br>
You ever hear of the 4-2-1 problem in China? That's one child financially and morally responsible for taking care of two aging parents, and four aging grandparents, and God forbid taking care of GREAT grandparents on top of that! It's not a good goal. It's a problem. 60 and 70 year old men and women shouldn't be required to work in a factory or at a wal-mart or McDonald's because they can't afford to stop working or they starve. Where's the humanity in that? Social security does not work with a mostly-aged population. The math just doesn't work.<br>
That is happening, all over the nation, and all over the world. In China, they actually have to actively seek out the elderly to man factories. There aren't enough young people, and otherwise, the elderly starve because their grandchildren barely make enough to support themselves and their parents.<br>
Sorry, but... That's not a future I would wish on ANYONE, let alone a relative.</div>
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well written post!

 

[Kimmiepie]

We have 3 and do not plan on having anymore. However, I think that according to today's society, we have a "large" family. I'm always getting comments about that. Most people we know have no more than 2 children. BUT I did have a baby in high school that I gave up for adoption...so technically I have had 4 children.<br><br>
I like the size of my family. I would have more if my body could handle it. I admire those with very large families, and I think it is natural to have lots of children....just doing what your body is made to do.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">You ever hear of the 4-2-1 problem in China? That's one child financially and morally responsible for taking care of two aging parents, and four aging grandparents, and God forbid taking care of GREAT grandparents on top of that! It's not a good goal. It's a problem. 60 and 70 year old men and women shouldn't be required to work in a factory or at a wal-mart or McDonald's because they can't afford to stop working or they starve. Where's the humanity in that? Social security does not work with a mostly-aged population. The math just doesn't work.<br>
That is happening, all over the nation, and all over the world. In China, they actually have to actively seek out the elderly to man factories. There aren't enough young people, and otherwise, the elderly starve because their grandchildren barely make enough to support themselves and their parents.<br>
Sorry, but... That's not a future I would wish on ANYONE, let alone a relative.</td>
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I think that having a large family is ideal for taking care of their elders, helping raise the other children etc. Unfortunately in our society we think of ourselves and cast our elders off to some nursing home. We also expect our children to have our attention all the time and never have to do any work/help with other siblings. IMO we've created a selfish society, and having large families in that society is not beneficial the way it used to be. I wish I could have lived in a time where this was not so.

 

[saimeiyu]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Kimmiepie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10876977"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
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I think that having a large family is ideal for taking care of their elders, helping raise the other children etc. Unfortunately in our society we think of ourselves and cast our elders off to some nursing home. We also expect our children to have our attention all the time and never have to do any work/help with other siblings. IMO we've created a selfish society, and having large families in that society is not beneficial the way it used to be. I wish I could have lived in a time where this was not so.</div>
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In some respects I agree, but in my experience, it's still the children and grandchildren that end up footing the bill for the nursing home, especially once the retirement money's been all used up.<br><br>
I suppose I also have a unique perspective on this-- my husband's father's family is shrinking rapidly. went from 7 kids to 3 kids to 4 kids total between all grandkids-- and my DH and I will be the only ones w/kids for this generation, looks like. Which means that our family will most likely be taking care of the loose ends for all the uncles and Gramma as well.

 

[dmpmercury]

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">It's true that on their own, Americans on the whole will probably not cut down consumption-- but that's also because many can't afford alternative sources of energy--</td>
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Renewable energy cannot meet all our needs unless we used much less energy. I don't see that happening in the US until it is neccassary. Most people are so unaware of the resources problem. Renewable energy can meet some of our needs not the way we are living now. Solar panels require a lot of manufacturing and renewable energy requires a lot of space. We can't live the way we do with just renewable energy we need to make sacrifices. We need to design cities more efficiently and stop factory farming, we need to live locally and consume a lot less.<br><br>
Right now if everyone lived like the US we would need like 4 planets. So population in an industrialized nation like this is a problem while a high population in Africa isn't as big as a problem for resource use because they don't use much resources. We only have so many resources in this country because others are poor in the world. American cities are not designed for local living and to get by without cars. We have a lot to fix here.<br><br>
I personally dream of a large family. I always wanted one and still do but I not sure I can justify it for myself in this country the way we are living right now. I really struggle with this. I don't believe in population control but I think it is a good thing that population in industrialized nations is stable right now and not growing at the rate it was during the baby boom days. Yes we have an problem with baby boomers aging that needs to be addressed but we also have huge resource problems coming up. Oil prices wll get higher and higher as prices peak and we are not prepared for that either. We will not always be a imperialistic nation wasting so much resources but I worry how unprepared we are for the fall and how individualistic our society developed. I don't think any one person's decision to have a large family will have a large impact because there are families that only have one or who adopt or won't have children.

 

[katiedidbug]

I want at least five kids. For some reason, I've always wanted to have a large family. My mom had five kids, and was very present. She was always at all our events, etc, so we never felt neglected.<br>
I practice NFP for religious reasons, and I hate the thought of ever thinking I'm "done" w/ having children.

 

[so_blessed]

We love the idea of a large family. We don't control anything for religious reasons. We have four, with another on the way, but since I am 40+, this might be the last.

 

[orangefoot]

Op - we have a monthly Moms of Many thread in Parenting Issues and it is usually easy to find on the first page of that forum.<br><br>
I had two children with my first husband and now two more with my dh. We may or may not have more I don't yet know but our decision won't be based on world population size.<br><br>
Our footprint on the earth is way smaller than most of our single friends and 'ordinary' size families despite our 2.3L Honda Odyssey.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug">

 

[robertandenith]

I only have 2 and preggy with our third, but I wanted to tell those that believe that with breastfeeding you may not get preggy, you guys be careful that's how my best friend got preggy herself <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"> You may not bleed but you still ovulate!!!!

 

[saimeiyu]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>robertandenith</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10939342"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I only have 2 and preggy with our third, but I wanted to tell those that believe that with breastfeeding you may not get preggy, you guys be careful that's how my best friend got preggy herself <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"> You may not bleed but you still ovulate!!!!</div>
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If you do ovulate, you will bleed if the egg isn't fertilized. She probably got pg on her first fertile cycle. Only some women ovulate early (before 12-15 months) when bfing, usually when they don't follow what's called ecological bfing principles.

 

[robertandenith]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>saimeiyu</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10939904"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Only some women ovulate early (before 12-15 months) when bfing, usually when they don't follow what's called ecological bfing principles.</div>
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give me details cuz I need to know!!!! my last 2 babies where oopsies! yes my friend got preggy after 5 months of giving birth breastfeeding and all lol!!

 

[saimeiyu]

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">give me details cuz I need to know!!!! my last 2 babies where oopsies! yes my friend got preggy after 5 months of giving birth breastfeeding and all lol!!</td>
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OK. What you want to do is research something called the Lactation Amenorrhea Method. Also you can research what's called "ecological breastfeeding".<br><br>
Basically, for the official LAM, which is at least 98&#37; effective (which is just as effective as most modern forms of the pill):<br><br>
(These can also be applied to pumping while at work, although generally a little less effective)<br><br>
1. Your baby is fully or nearly fully breastfed. This means no more than 2 mouthfuls a day of juice, water, or other foods.<br>
2. Your baby is not on a particular schedule.<br>
3. Your baby does not go more than 4 hours between breastfeeding during the day.<br>
4. Your baby does not go more than 6 hours between breastfeeding during the night.<br>
(if you start official version of LAM sometime after delivery, like you find out when your baby is a few months old the principles)<br>
5. Your monthly periods have not returned.<br>
6. Your baby is under 6 months of age.<br><br>
To extend infertility, you can additionally:<br>
Sleep with the baby and BF at night<br>
BF before supplemental feedings (like solids)<br>
Don't use pacifiers-- baby's sucking needs are mostly met at the breast<br>
Try to take a nap w/baby sometime during the day (hard, I know)<br>
Avoid separations from baby as much as possible to enable and encourage short frequent and unscheduled nursing bouts, which increases infertility (also hard, I know).<br><br>
(I personally think one of the keys is that unscheduled part. Also the part about not *ever* going longer than 6 hours w/out pumping or nursing, even at night.)<br><br>
For resources on the Lactation Amenorrhea Method (first 6 months) promoted by La Leche League:<br><a href="http://www.llli.org/ba/Aug93.html" target="_blank">http://www.llli.org/ba/Aug93.html</a> --statistics on the efficacy of LAM<br><br><a href="http://www.llli.org/NB/NBSepOct06p196.html" target="_blank">http://www.llli.org/NB/NBSepOct06p196.html</a> --another article about LAM and ecological BFing.<br><br><a href="http://www.fhi.org/training/en/modules/LAM/tools.htm" target="_blank">http://www.fhi.org/training/en/modules/LAM/tools.htm</a> --LAM info page-- scroll down and find the "fact sheet" for a short overview, it's a very good one.<br><br><a href="http://www.teachingsexualhealth.ca/media/pdf/BClam.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.teachingsexualhealth.ca/media/pdf/BClam.pdf</a> --another fact sheet<br><br>
Also, try to find the book <i>Breastfeeding and Natural Child Spacing</i>, by Sheila Kippley. Although there's quite a lot of religious-type references in this book, and also I think a lot of working moms might not like it so much, the info in it is very good and does a very good job of explaining ecological bfing.<br><br>
According to this book, as long as you follow the principles outlined, in the first 6 months, there is a basically 0% chance of getting pregnant in the first 3 months, a 1% chance in the second 3 months;<br>
After the first 6 months, a 6% chance of getting pregnant before 1st menstruation (assuming no fertility awareness/other bc used) about 70% of moms get their first Af between 9 and 20 months PP, with the average being aprox. 14 months.

 

[robertandenith]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>saimeiyu</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10945617"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Sleep with the baby and BF at night<br>
BF before supplemental feedings (like solids)<br>
Don't use pacifiers-- baby's sucking needs are mostly met at the breast<br>
(hard, I know)<br>
Avoid separations from baby as much as possible to enable and encourage short frequent and unscheduled nursing bouts, which increases infertility (also hard, I know).</div>
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wow we do this! I guess I could do this, thank you so much for the info!<br><br>
My babies don't eat solids for a whole year but I do get my period before baby reaches 6 months ugh <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"><br><br>
SORRY PAJAMAJES WE WENT TOTALLY OT HERE LOL!!!!!

 

[lisarussell]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pajamajes</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10675682"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I didn't really know where to post this, but I hope here is alright. If I need to post this somewhere else someone please tell me and I will. Or someone can move it for me. Anyway, I have noticed that there are a lot of families on here that have more than the average 1.5 children. I have always wanted a big family. I have hated and still hate being an only child. And I love kids and I've just always wanted to be a momma. Anyway, are there any families with a bunch of kids on here. That's really interpretive I guess, but my definition would be families with 6 or more children. Everyone seems to have a strong opinion on big families, either totally for or totally against. What's your opinion? I personally would love to have 12 or so children. Also, I have noticed a lot of large families do not use birth control for religious reasons. Being agnostic, this really isn't a factor in my decision. WDYT? Let's discuss! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"></div>
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We have 6, we are totally not religious, we just planned on having 6 kids. Being agnostic, you might notice people using religion to explain everything from why they limit family size, to why they don't. I'm totally for big families, IMHO singletons are weird. I think not having siblings would be the loneliest, saddest sort of hell.

 

[purple_kangaroo]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>saimeiyu</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10945617"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">OK. What you want to do is research something called the Lactation Amenorrhea Method. Also you can research what's called "ecological breastfeeding".<br><br>
Basically, for the official LAM, which is at least 98% effective (which is just as effective as most modern forms of the pill):<br><br>
(These can also be applied to pumping while at work, although generally a little less effective)<br><br>
1. Your baby is fully or nearly fully breastfed. This means no more than 2 mouthfuls a day of juice, water, or other foods.<br>
2. Your baby is not on a particular schedule.<br>
3. Your baby does not go more than 4 hours between breastfeeding during the day.<br>
4. Your baby does not go more than 6 hours between breastfeeding during the night.<br>
(if you start official version of LAM sometime after delivery, like you find out when your baby is a few months old the principles)<br>
5. Your monthly periods have not returned.<br>
6. Your baby is under 6 months of age.<br><br>
To extend infertility, you can additionally:<br>
Sleep with the baby and BF at night<br>
BF before supplemental feedings (like solids)<br>
Don't use pacifiers-- baby's sucking needs are mostly met at the breast<br>
Try to take a nap w/baby sometime during the day (hard, I know)<br>
Avoid separations from baby as much as possible to enable and encourage short frequent and unscheduled nursing bouts, which increases infertility (also hard, I know).<br><br>
(I personally think one of the keys is that unscheduled part. Also the part about not *ever* going longer than 6 hours w/out pumping or nursing, even at night.)<br></div>
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I must be one of the 2%, because I did all that stuff and still started my cycle within 4-8 weeks of giving birth all three times. And got pregnant on day 30 of a 28-day cycle when I had a 6-month-old. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">

 

[Chic_Mama]

I only have my one right now but I want a large family very badly. I know it is in the Lord's hands (I do have that faith factor in my decision) but of course it is hard to wait on someone else's timing! We have been trying for almost a year and had a m/c in November. I would love to have AT LEAST 6 but hopefully more- we would like to adopt some as well. I just have to take it as it comes!

 

[Tuesday]

I"m wondering if there are any age 40 moms still building a large family. Or largish family, for that matter. It may not seem large but I have 2 kids and really wanting one more and I am 40. I suppose if I go with logistics, I would stick with 2 but my heart is saying have another one. Not sure.

 

[robertandenith]

I honestly wanted 4 all my life until my first was born, then I narrowed it to 2 lol! This third baby was a total oops! but I am not complaining <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"> We love traveling so we need to think of those things and expenses, I wouldn't mind a fourth kid but then we will not be able to travel like we like to <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">

 

[phatchristy]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>purple_kangaroo</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10951718"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I must be one of the 2%, because I did all that stuff and still started my cycle within 4-8 weeks of giving birth all three times. And got pregnant on day 30 of a 28-day cycle when I had a 6-month-old. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"></div>
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Well, that's just genetics and hormones. I'm the SAME way..sigh. I get a short period about 5-6 weeks after birth, then they get longer and regular. And, yep, I do all the LAM stuff...nurse on demand, cosleep, etc.<br><br>
In fact, #2 was conceived when my first was exclusively breastfed. So, I've been very careful NOT to get pregnant until after a year as my milk supply plummited.<br><br>
And still LAM is not 100% effective. I know a LLL leader who conceived at t months post partum while exclusively breastfeeding round the clock. She actually found out that she was pregnant because she started having supply issues and nipple sensitivity. It was another leader saying...'oh, I know it's highly unlikely that you're pregnant but why not take a test just in case..."<br><br>
Even more interesting was that she was pregnant with TWINS! Had them slightly premature, so they were less than 9 months apart from her first!<br><br>
As for the large family thing here. I do LOVE having kiddos. But, I'm taking it one at a time. I have a feeling DH will be the limiting factor. He is an only child, and definitely knew he wanted more than one.

 

[Full Heart]

I come from a big family and I have 7 kids. Hopefully in the next few mos we can ttc #8. I can't even utter those words to most people because all I get is grief. So no one but my online friends know <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> . We hope to get 10 but at this point that goal seems so far off. Dh is 41 so there aren't too many more years left where we would want to be having kids. He doesn't want to be raising kids into his 70s.<br><br>
I really love having come from a big family...a long line of big families. My dh came from a small family from a line of small families. They are almost all gone now and that for us is just sad.<br><br>
LAM never worked for me either, which is probably a good thing because like I said dh is old lol. I ebf, no pacis, no bottles, co sleep, wear my babies and none of them slept through the night before they were 2. I am one of the 1% that get pg before 6 mos, one of the ones that gets pg before 1st ppaf (not once but twice!), and I concieved all but 1 of my kids by 9 mos pp. The only other one not was because of bc. And of course this time again thanks to bc. Oh well, glad lam didn't work for us! lol

 

[Tuwamare]

We have a large family... 8 children so far. I say so far because who knows what the future will bring? We are open to more if it is meant to be.<br><br>
I'm over 40 now, and we didn't start having children until I was 27. In fact our last was conceived after my hubby had a heart valve replaced (he was born with a defective aortic valve which finally went wonky). We try to live as lightly on the earth as possible. We only have one car, which we only drive as necessary. Hubby carpools to work unless he has dr appts during the day. We use public transportation when we need to.<br><br>
All I can hope for is that my children will look back on their childhoods fondly. We homeschool and do family outings like the county fair, going fishing at the nearby fishing hole, etc. We grow as many of our own veggies as possible and have even raised our own meat at times. Anything to help with the food budget! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
We live in a small home and we all share bedrooms. We don't turn on the heat unless it is cold. I would love to get solar panels or wind turbines for the roof... maybe someday we'll be able to afford it.<br><br>
I love my large family! I didn't start out wanting a large one... but our first was such an easy baby, we just kept adding. Sure, we can't do everything we wish we could do... we make sacrifices to have our family. We don't take vacations, we don't have more than one or two pairs of shoes each and we live frugally. The big expenditure in our house is for computers... the kids use them daily to learn and I work online so I can be home with them. But it is so worth it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">