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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Iris is 3 1/2. She started to pee in the potty before she was 3. She has done it several times, knows how to do it on her own, knows how to use the toilet.<br><br>
No art classes for Iris because she still uses diapers. Fortunately I have no plans for preschool or it would be the same song.<br><br>
"Children should be 'trained' at age 1 or you'll have problems later." I know, I know - different culture, but it still stings.<br><br>
Daddy: "We have to push her from babyhood into childhood."<br>
Me: Why do you think you feel the need to push her?"<br>
Daddy: "Because I was always late and I don't want her to be late too."<br><br>
So. Iris knows that the art teacher said no classes because of the diapers. So she started to wear panties and pee in the potty, asking what the the teacher would say now, etc. She had two accidents (not her first in the past 6 months). Both times she asked "Who will be angry?" I've certainly never got angry about it, so this just confirms to me that this was an issue at her old preschool, and that's why she suddenly wanted to stop going. After the second accident she claimed that "panties get wet" and wanted back in her diapers. What can I say to "panties get wet"???<br><br>
I don't want to push, never have.<br><br>
But should I?? Won't she just want to do it some day and that will be that? I feel like I'm failing as a mother/teacher. I've talked to her about it and suggested the panties and the potty but never insisted or bribed or whatever. I just don't believe in that. But am I totally wrong? Sometimes I'm rigid about these things.<br><br>
PLEASE, doesn't anyone have any experience with 3+ yo still in diapers?
 

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We were just dealing with a similar issue. Our son turned 3 in June and had no interest in using a potty. We never pushed it at all and figured he would be self motivated to learn. We live in Florida and spend a lot of time in our pool. He, of course, runs around naked. In August we started insisting that he aim for his little potty when peeing outside (he was starting to pee anywhere he wanted...on chairs, toys etc). Once we started insisting, he had no problem at all going in his little potty outside. Once I saw that he had mastered this, I started asking him each morning if he wanted to wear underwear or a diaper. Every morning he wanted a diaper, until 4 weeks ago. He put on underwear and just started using the potty. We don't have to remind him or take him..He just yells, "Uh Oh, I dotta do pee pee in the potty", strips down and takes off running!!! Poo Poo is still a bit of an issue, he gets scared because he has no diaper on to contain it, but is very successful with going in the potty. He also stays dry most nights. SO, don't worry. She'll want to do it eventually.<br>
You are not alone<br>
Denise
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ok, but the thing is, she has mastered peeing in the potty and in the toilet. And I have proposed the panties each time I change her diaper. And she does tell me when she is peeing in the diaper. For instance, if I say it's time to take it off because it's wet (notice I don't say "change" because I keep the panty option open) she may say "Wait. I'm peeing." But when she has her accidents, or when she's in the tub, it's like she doesn't even realize what's going on. When she cacas she goes into her room and shuts the door. She has been doing this for almost a year.<br><br>
Don't get me wrong anyone. It's not frustrating or irritating me. I just feel like maybe there's something I'm not doing.
 

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If she truly is not physically ready, meaning she is not yet aware of the sensation BEFORE she has to go, then I wouldn't push it. But if she has mastered the physical part of it, the diapers may just be a habit at this point.<br><br>
A good friend of mine just got her daughter fully out of diapers at age 4 1/2 (she was peeing, but not pooping in the toilet by this time) by just standing firm and eliminating diapers as an option. She knew her daughter COULD use the toilet, she just didn't want to because it was easier to just use diapers. Her mom got all the diapers out of the house (they were the pull-up kind, and her daughter would wear undies but ask for a pull-up when she needed to have a bowel movement), stayed home for about four days, threw out a fair number of panties (she doesn't have her own washing machine) and lo and behold, it worked.<br><br>
Of course, your daughter is not as old as the child I'm talking about, but keep in mind that having accidents are part of the learning process. If every time a child has accidents, diapers are given as a solution, then it can certainly interfere with the process.<br><br>
If you don't mind waiting until she decides to wear undies on her own, that's fine, but it does sound like it may be causing some problems - the art classes and such. I don't believe in pushing children to use the toilet but some kids need a little more encouraging than others. Good luck whatever you decide!
 

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Hey, ParisMaman, I'm in the same boat. My ds is about 3.5 and has been peeing in the potty no problem as long as he's got a naked bottom. He actually even gets out of the tub to use the potty, has even gone to bed without a diaper and woken up to tell me he needs to pee - at night he will insist on a diaper though. I ask every once in a while (really trying not to pressure) if he wants to wear underwear and he always says no. He tells me "Underwears are for big boys, I a little boy." I did get him to wear underwear twice and he had accidents both times. He has gone with nothing under his pants and had accidents, too. He won't wear pull ups either.<br><br>
I think I took the transition to underwear a little too lightly and didn't stay on top of him, reminding him he didn't have a diaper on, sticking around home, etc. He was just so good at using the potty when he was naked I got cocky. And now that he's had those few accidents outside the house he's scared to try again. I think I will try to talk him into trying again, promising that I will help him remember and we'll just stay home and play, in case of accidents. He sometimes responds to challanges like that if it's a team effort. If he doesn't take the challenge I'll drop it until he tells me he's ready.<br><br>
A funny story: on vacation this summer a couple of times we had put his pants on after swimming or something without a diaper so one day when he announced he was going to poo (Mummy, don't look at me, I'm pooing) dh and I freaked because we thought he didn't have a diaper on. We said, Wait, wait! You're not wearing a diaper! And ran around like chickens with our heads cut off looking for diaper. Then when I went to put it on I realised he WAS wearing a diaper. We apologised profusely and encouraged him to go about his business. Then the next time he needed to go poo he called me in a terrified voice "Mummy? Do I have a diaper on?!!!"<br><br>
I'm not worried about it but then around here it is not uncommon for 3.5 yr olds to still be in diapers. Actually most of them are in Pull Ups and their parents kid themselves that they are potty trained. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">: I can appreciate that it is allot harder for you in that culture. My paternal grandmother boasted that none of her 4 children walked in diapers. Yeah but I bet she spent allot of time holding them over toilets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yeah Liz - I know for a fact that many mommies here are often in tears over wanting just ONE diaper! Most babies are "trained" by 8 months. It's partly because they can't afford the diaper, and partly due to the culture.<br><br>
This all makes me feel better.<br><br>
We thought about tossing the diapers the other day when she stayed 8 hours in panties. I wish we would have.<br><br>
Well, back to the drawing board.
 

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My son trained around 3 1/2, my dd trained at 1 1/2.<br>
I didn't do anything different with them- they both did it themselves when they were ready.<br>
Honestly, I think it is all about the child, and nothing about the parents. The only thing I woudl say to you, is to keep talking about it. Not like "Don't you want to use the potty" type of thing, but just in natural matter of fact way. Mentioning your own usage, mentioning her usage "Oh, there's poopies in your diaper now- let's clean that up" or whatever. I think it's important for a kid to be comfortable with their bodily functions. Hang in there mama- she will do it when she's ready.
 

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It took a while to get my DD trained, and I understand the frustration and pressure when you have a child whom everyone else thinks is too old to be in diapers. Or in our case, pull-ups, then overnights for every day use because she outgrew diapers!<br><br>
Anything that causes a child to have a set-back or regress in potty training can have a longer-lasting impact than you think too. DD was virtually trained, then we moved, and it took us almost a year to get back to where we were before the move.<br><br>
I had to accept that it was an issue of her body and her readiness, and that until she was truly ready, potty-training wouldn't happen. And I had to realize that accidents were inevitable.<br><br>
I guess the important thing is to remember that you're not alone in this situation. A lot of us have had a similar challenge when it came to potty-training. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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Can Iris clean herself up after an accident and then get herself dressed? It isn't that hard, if your standards aren't too high. Provide several piles of attractive pants and underpants and tell her that you are going to pick out a book to read together when she is ready. Then leave the room and be oblivious to tantrums. She can either use the wipes to clean herself up and get dressed, or she can forgo the next wonderful thing. If you are still taking responsibility for her toilet habits, why should she change them?<br><br>
Think of it this way... If you had a wonderful servant, and everytime you ate, the dirty plate was whisked away from the table as soon as you are finished, why would you bother loading the dishwasher yourself?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
There are plenty of reasons I would continue to load the dishwasher.<br><br>
Iris doesn't tantrum.<br><br>
She can dress herself.<br><br>
I'm processing your post.
 

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As another parent of a 3.5 year old diaper wearer, I can't say I'm comfortable with that response, bestjob. (I think this is the first time I have ever disagreed with you!) I think my son is physically ready to move into underwear just not ready emotionally. Fine with me. I don't fight over food, sleep or pee/poo. Forcing him to clean up after an accident would be mean and completely unsanitary. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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My 3.5 year old ds is still in diapers. We have some books that he likes to read about using the toilet. We ask him if he wants to wear underwear. We talk about bodily functions with him. But he just doesn't seem emotionally ready. He seems to have some perfectionist qualities and this is one area that he is having a hard time mastering without mistakes (obviously). We tell him it's fine when he gets pee on himself and we don't make a big deal out of it.<br><br>
We also went through a time a while back where he would hold his poops for up to a week, which resulted in painful bowel movements, so then a fear of pooping and more holding. We resorted to perscription strength fiber. He has been off the stuff for months and he is pooping regularly again. Dh and I think it all started when he spent some time with my MIL. She probably made a big deal about how he was stinky or how he should think about using the toilet (he wasn't even three at the time) and that just made him feel badly about his own bodily functions.<br><br>
I don't know what it is, so for now I am keeping the toilet talk up. I bring it up a few times a week. I am trying to emphasize that mistakes are OK. We talk about all the neat things his three year old body can do (get dressed, climb, ride his big wheel, help his brtoher down the stairs, write letters and numbers, draw, dance...). If he sees his friends use the toilet, we talk about it and I ask him if he would like to wear his underwear. Sometimes he says yes, but if he has an accident or I ask him to try to use the toilet, he wants his diaper back on.<br><br>
He has only pooped on the toilet once. I told him that he could get a construction truck if he did. Well he got his truck and that was it. So I regret using a "bribe".
 

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My computer is acting crazy and I didn't want to lose the first part of my post, so here's part II<br><br>
Khrisday, It's reassuring to know that every child is different. We also use natural matter of fact language about bodily functions.<br><br>
Bestjob, I disagree with the suggestion that Iris or any other child her age should clean herself up. I think it is mean and unsanitary, as well. Even if Iris used the toilet, her mother would still have to help her with that process and take some responsibility with her.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Think of it this way... If you had a wonderful servant, and everytime you ate, the dirty plate was whisked away from the table as soon as you are finished, why would you bother loading the dishwasher yourself?</td>
</tr></table></div>
I don't see that being the same thing as a three year old trying to understand and deal with his/her bodily functions on a physical and emotional level. I don't see my role as being a servant when I am trying to meet my children's needs and help them learn how to meet some of their own needs.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by MamaOui</i><br><b><br>
I don't see that being the same thing as a three year old trying to understand and deal with his/her bodily functions on a physical and emotional level. I don't see my role as being a servant when I am trying to meet my children's needs and help them learn how to meet some of their own needs.</b></td>
</tr></table></div>
<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/clap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="clap"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/clap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="clap"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/clap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="clap">
 

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My son is a little over 3.5 and just started using the potty on his own. Well, with a little encourgement from us I guess, but it was more of knowing when he pees and poops and asking him if he would like to try it on his potty.<br>
We also give him the choice of diaper or cotton underwear(not big boy pants-we tried that label very early on like when he first turned 3 and found out that it really upset him b/c after he started to use the potty he said I want to use the potty but not be a big boy) and he chooses daiper at night and coton during the day and is abotu 50/50 pooping in potty or his cotton underwear.<br>
SO I am glad he did it on his own...I know it must be frustrating if your dd is regressing but I would respect her needs at this time with the issue and try not to make such and <i>issue</i> of it....hard I know but just my 2 cents....<br>
hth<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hippie.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hippie"><br><br>
oh and bestjob......thanks for the laugh this morning<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok.<br><br>
Clarifications:<br><br>
I don't feel like my dd is regressing; she is simply progressing at her own pace.<br><br>
I don't give a hoot if I have to clean poop or change diapers.<br><br>
I don't give a darn that she's what some people would say is "late."<br><br>
I think this is a very touchy subject with children; the slightest thing can set them back.<br><br>
Shutting my dd in a room and ignoring her pleas is something I will not do.<br><br>
I tried to leave my mind open and consider bestjob's thoughts. It's just too harsh and not an important enough issue for me to consider doing what she suggests.<br><br>
So far I have been told by some of the posters here and by RL mothers that Iris will eventually want to do this on her own. Wonderful. That's all I wanted to know.
 

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Aww, shucks, I was just sounding grumpy. What I meant was that if you care about cleaning up pee or poop, it is time to move on. Personally, I don't think that taking care of someone else's toileting is what I want to do. I'm not talking about forcing, I'm talking about independence. "Here are your clothes, there is the laundry hamper, here are the wipes... go to it and I'll see you by the playdough." My kids, who are all pretty independent souls, see that as a plus. "She's put out shorts and long pants, too! I get to decide for myself! I also know how to open the drawer and get out my favourite sweats!" Around here, bathroom stuff isn't about power struggles because I don't let it be. Believe me, I am the queen of power struggles, and the reason I can let the bathroom stuff go is because I believe that an independent toilet-user is a joy to live with. Other people choose other battles.<br><br>
If you don't care, you can live with the problem. Sometimes you just need to have your problem acknowledged. There doesn't need to be a solution, just a friendly voice saying, "Oh, I hear you. Being a mother isn't easy. It is fun. It just isn't easy."
 

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Actually, upon re-reading some of the other posts, I obviously sounded worse than grumpy. Please forgive me. What I meant was not as complicated as it sounded. I certainly never meant that a child should be shut in her room to clean up a mess by herself. She can do what she can do. If she needs you to do it, then you do it. If she wants you to do it, you decide if you are willing to do it. Like I said, being a mother is not easy. Being a good communicator isn't easy for some of us, either!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ok, now it sounds like I wasn't looking for advice. I was. But it looks like, in the end, there's nothing much I can do - that I'm comfortable with anyway.
 

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Oh, how I can relate!<br>
My daughter was potty trained completely in two days when she was two. She was only wearing a diaper to bed. Then, after my son was born, she wanted to wear diapers, too. She'll be four in Dec. and she refuses to go on the potty. The more I bring it up, or beg, or plead, or bribe!, the harder she fights it. I just completely give up. She'll do it when she does it, kwim?<br>
My ped. had a great idea that I'm going to use. I'm going to let her pick out some party plates, streamers, and party hats, a very special toy - like a new baby - and put it up high in the closet when we get home (I'll tell her all this in advance, of course!), explaining that when she poops and pees in the potty for one day, we will have a gigantic panty party! He said that because the child knows it's in there waiting for them, it motivates them to take that big step toward using the potty.
 
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