[mother_sunshine]

I'm starting this thread in hopes for all of us breastfeeding mamas (parent-led, child-led, undecided, any age child) to discuss our opinions on the possibility of a new child-led weaning forum. Cynthia is not convinced that it is necessary. I am asking for your input. Pro or con. What do you think is best for our breastfeeding community here at MDC? Let's try our best to get a healthy discussion going without flaming each other.

 

[kama'aina mama]

I would like to see all sustained breastfeeders on one board. I'm not crazy about creating so many divisions between us. I genuinely feel that what unites us far outweighs what divides us and I fear spreading our resources and attention too thin, across too many forums.

Kama, letting Bonnie (who is 4 y/o in 6 weeks) lead the way on this.

 

[thirtycats]

Quote:

I would like to see all sustained breastfeeders on one board. I'm not crazy about creating so many divisions between us. I genuinely feel that what unites us far outweighs what divides us and I fear spreading our resources and attention too thin, across too many forums.

I completely agree!

I don't think a whole forum is needed. I think there can just be individual threads...isn't there one already for older nurslings and another for child-led weaning? Are those not working well enough?

Dina

 

[mother_sunshine]

Personally, I am for a CLW forum. There is an increasing sense of discomfort in this forum.....there are those of us who are child-led weaning who want to avoid the hurtful comments and insinuations from those who don't support nursing a child past 3yrs (let alone to 7 or 8). I have no problem with a mama gently and respectfully weaning her child past 3 years (honestly) if that is what works best for her family.....that still fits here IMHO. But the forum is being pushed further and further into the mainstream realm of parenting and we are swaying away from what MDC is all about in the first place. MDC is starting to look like iVillage and, frankly, I do feel threatened because I don't want to see that happen here.

On the one hand, I can see how it would be beneficial for all forums to be one....we could all be here to give newcomers well-rounded perspective. And in a perfect forum we can all support each other and share with one another whatever our weaning style. We can open our minds and be open to other's perspective. This is how MDC once was, and this is how I would love to see it. But I am finding an increasing number of mothers who insinuate that breastfeeding past 3 years is disgusting...this is a perspective that we have shoved down our throats IRL. That makes it hard to share and support when we know that there are heads shaking from the very same people we are open-heartedly supporting.

On the other hand, many are here simply for the support in an otherwise very anti-breastfeeding beyond 2yrs society. There are times and places where debate and perspective is healthy and welcome....and there are other times when all we need is a "safe" place for support where we feel completely welcome and supported by the community as a whole.

As far as I see it, the division is not going to go away. I don't foresee us coming to an agreement that we will ALL respect each other's differences and support each other WHATEVER their choices.....that includes supporting forced weaning techniques including abrupt cut-off or placing a bad-tasting deterrent on the nipple, or supporting spanking as a means of discipline when a child is hitting Mama because he is refused the breast, or giving a child over the counter drugs to sedate him, etc. etc. I cannot support those things and, because we are on an alternative parenting site like MDC, I don't feel that I should have to be so politically correct to the point of welcoming the very same styles of parenting that we at MDC do not advocate. And even though this is a NATURAL family living site, not everyone is going to agree on what that means in relation to breastfeeding.

There are currently 3 breastfeeding forums: Getting Started, Support and Advocacy, and Extended Breastfeeding. Because there are 3 separate forums doesn't mean that we are not allowed to post on the others or that we are all separate of one another. Many of us post on "Support and Advocacy" AND "Extended Breastfeeding" (the 2 realms do cross one another) without any confusion or problems between the two. Why not add a "Child-Led Weaning" forum?

 

[TiredX2]

If there are not major reasons against a CLW forum I would really like one. I would really like a place I could go and see NO threads about weaning, except celebrations of a child choosing to make that step themselves.

Kay

 

[Mom4tot]

Michelle, we were typing at the same time

I believe that a CLW forum is an important and valuable addition to MDC. The CLW thread is one of the *few* threads in EB I have felt comfortable. I am getting more than a little tired of weaning threads, people referring to extended nursing a 10 mos. old, and insinsuations that nursing beyond toddlerhood is "frivolous" or "beyond the call of duty".

I want to talk about and hear about the struggles and joys of nursing an older child. I wouldn't want to post something about nursing my 7 or 8 y/o dd and have people respond with "well, cut her off already". Society in general does that with babies, the minute nursing gets a little complicated (for some people) "it is time to wean..you've nursed *long enough*.

MDC should be, of all places, in support of a CLW forum for moms who don't have a time table, don't want to wean and just want to discuss nursing. I don't understand why child led weaning is considered unimportant or unnecessay. Sure, it is wonderful to nurse until a yaer, or two, or three, BUT, the need for support and connection with like-minded mamas doesn't end there.

 

[mother_sunshine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thirtycats I completely agree! I don't think a whole forum is needed. I think there can just be individual threads...isn't there one already for older nurslings and another for child-led weaning? Are those not working well enough? Dina

Yes, there are 2 threads. If you look at the number of posts, and the diversity of discussion in both threads, you will see that there is a need.

 

[thirtycats]

Quote:

I don't foresee us coming to an agreement that we will ALL respect each other's differences and support each other WHATEVER their choices.....that includes supporting forced weaning techniques including abrupt cut-off or placing a bad-tasting deterrent on the nipple, or supporting spanking as a means of discipline when a child is hitting Mama because he is refused the breast, or giving a child over the counter drugs to sedate him, etc. etc. I cannot support those things and, because we are on an alternative parenting site like MDC, I don't feel that I should have to be so politically correct to the point of welcoming the very same styles of parenting that we at MDC do not advocate. And even though this is a NATURAL family living site, not everyone is going to agree on what that means in relation to breastfeeding.

I think we all have different opinions here. I think it is fine to disagree about something. I think it is fine to sit there and say "I think that's cruel. You shouldn't do that to a child. Or I think that's really weird. You shouldn't do that". Hopefully, we can say it in a more polite way, but I don't think we should have to sit there and pretend we agree with what everyone else does. I don't think we should have to keep our opinions quiet.

:

BUT...I think it is totally out of line to sit there and say certain types of discussions shouldn't even exist here.

Who are you to judge? I mean where are we going to draw the line? Who is going to sit here and decide what is AP enough? What is natural enough?

I am so sick of this!!!!!!

I want to scream. I'm hearing this nonsense from both ends. We have FF moms wanting us to take out any negative discussions about formula and CLW moms wanting to take out anything that is not CLW.

Look people...you are never going to find a perfect message board website with everyone agreeing with your exact viewpoint It AINT gonna happen. There's always going to be someone who offends you...someone that makes you feel weird...someone who makes you feel guilty....someone who does something to their child that you feel is cruel.

You know, even if there was a CLW forum...eventually there'd be fighting there too. Eventually, you guys would find out that you all don't believe the exact same things. Kind of like the idea of us all being one color on this planet so there'd be no racism. It wouldn't work. Eventually, we'd find something else different and fight about that.

To sit there and say that people who disagree with you belong on ivillage.com is really unfair. Do you really think I could go on that board and talk about wanting to nurse my child until he is 4? Well, I probably could. And maybe one day I will. But I find much more support here. Because this is a message board for attachment parenting and natural parenting. But we all have different levels of observence. Some of us are very very very devout AP and others of us are middle of the road.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe only one type of mother belongs at mothering.com. If anyone wants to show me a list of rules that says only mothers that believe a certain way are welcome here....I will gladly pack my bags and take my business elsewhere.

Dina

 

[callmemama]

I would love to see a CLW forum for the reasons already mentioned! Is there some "volume count" required before a separate forum can be obtained? IMHO, CLW'ers are doing what comes naturally (for some of us

) - its hard enough being "on the fringe" in society without being there at MDC too!!

 

[Mom4tot]

Yes, callemama, that is a good way to say it. I don't want to be treated like I am on the fringe, a "saint" or "fanatical".

 

[Messy Nessie]

My DD is a young'un, only 7.5 months, but I lurk on the EBF forum b.c someday I hope to be there!

The beauty of discussion on message boards is that you are able to connect and learn from people who don't necessarily share your POV. Yes, there may be a lot of help with weaning threads posted here, but think of what an opportunity to explain the benefits of CLW or gentle weaning to a mama who might not consider it.

If the forum were to become segregated there might be less interaction and limited opportunity for mamas to learn from those who are doing CLW.

I, for one plan to nurse my DD as long as I can. I aspire to CLW and I frequently lurk on the CLW and older nursling threads to learn more about it. Before coming here, I couldn't imagine nursing an older child. However, reading the beautiful stories posted on that thread has really opened my mind. And I have learned so much about the benefits! I fear that if the forum was segregated, the opportunity to educate and open the mind of someone else like me.

Anyway just my humble two cents!

 

[thirtycats]

Quote:

Is there some "volume count" required before a separate forum can be obtained? IMHO, CLW'ers are doing what comes naturally (for some of us ) - its hard enough being "on the fringe" in society without being there at MDC too!!

And that's all the more reason for us to learn to get along with each other here...and to accept our differences.

We're all feeling on the fringe of society...whether we are nursing a nine-year old or thirteen month old. We need to support each other. We need to talk about our differences and learn from our differences...not shy away from them.

Dina

 

[thirtycats]

Okay,

I do see that CLW threads are massive. So maybe there does need to be a forum for that particular group.

But can we please please stop with the attempt to censor and banish those that are different from us?

Dina

 

[mother_sunshine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thirtycats I think we all have different opinions here. I think it is fine to disagree about something. I think it is fine to sit there and say "I think that's cruel. You shouldn't do that to a child. Or I think that's really weird. You shouldn't do that". Hopefully, we can say it in a more polite way, but I don't think we should have to sit there and pretend we agree with what everyone else does. I don't think we should have to keep our opinions quiet. : BUT...I think it is totally out of line to sit there and say certain types of discussions shouldn't even exist here. Who are you to judge? I mean where are we going to draw the line? Who is going to sit here and decide what is AP enough? What is natural enough? I am so sick of this!!!!!! I want to scream. I'm hearing this nonsense from both ends. We have FF moms wanting us to take out any negative discussions about formula and CLW moms wanting to take out anything that is not CLW. Look people...you are never going to find a perfect message board website with everyone agreeing with your exact viewpoint It AINT gonna happen. There's always going to be someone who offends you...someone that makes you feel weird...someone who makes you feel guilty....someone who does something to their child that you feel is cruel. You know, even if there was a CLW forum...eventually there'd be fighting there too. Eventually, you guys would find out that you all don't believe the exact same things. Kind of like the idea of us all being one color on this planet so there'd be no racism. It wouldn't work. Eventually, we'd find something else different and fight about that. To sit there and say that people who disagree with you belong on ivillage.com is really unfair. Do you really think I could go on that board and talk about wanting to nurse my child until he is 4? Well, I probably could. And maybe one day I will. But I find much more support here. Because this is a message board for attachment parenting and natural parenting. But we all have different levels of observence. Some of us are very very very devout AP and others of us are middle of the road. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe only one type of mother belongs at mothering.com. If anyone wants to show me a list of rules that says only mothers that believe a certain way are welcome here....I will gladly pack my bags and take my business elsewhere. Dina

thirtycats, I guess some of us here just have a gentler heart than you would expect. I personally am not so open to arguments here in this forum (with the exception of this thread), it creates negative wasted energy and hurts feelings. I personally find this exhausting to have to defend my own style of parenting in the very same forum where I come for comfort. Some people get off on debate wherever and whenever, but not for me, not here. If we are always debating then it is always going to be one big ugly cat fight. And to be honest with you, I used to think this forum was once pretty damn near perfect. What was so perfect about it was that everyone was open-hearted and open-minded and accepted everyone for who they were, whether they were different than themselves or not. Diversity is beautiful. Controversy is not.

 

[mother_sunshine]

thirtycats, we posted at the same time. My last post was in response to your prior argument directed at me.

......ugh

....I need to log off now.

 

[slightly crunchy]

I see both pros and cons.

But, I do think if the CLW mamas feel like they need their own area here, especially mamas of older children, then they probably should have it.

It does seem a little sad that it would need to be separated. I do admit I don't read all the threads here. But I can't recall seeing specific posts that implied that there is something wrong with nursing beyond any certain age. Just because I may post that I am not sure I myself will nurse past 3 or 4 if my child does not selfwean by then, does not mean that I don't see fully CLW as an ideal and fully support those who choose to do so. Perhaps I am not understanding the issue well enough. Is there such a big difference between a CLW mama and one who makes a contract with their 3 or 4 year old and has a weaning party? After some recent threads here, I am still a bit confused on the subtleties of CLW, anyway. I'm sure I am not the only one.

I do understand the discomfort with threads discussing not-so-gentle weaning techniques, or the like. But do you think having a separate forum will really cause those to go away? I am worried that what it will do is make the CLW perspective to seem more fringe and keep lots of mams from benefiting from what you have to offer.

 

[thirtycats]

Quote:

Some people get off on debate wherever and whenever, but not for me, not here. If we are always debating then it is always going to be one big ugly cat fight. And to be honest with you, I used to think this forum was once pretty damn near perfect. What was so perfect about it was that everyone was open-hearted and open-minded and accepted everyone for who they were, whether they were different than themselves or not. Diversity is beautiful. Controversy is not.

So, you're willing to accept people that are different from you? Are you willing to let people wean the way they want to wean and not tell them they are cruel and/or tell them MDC is not the right place for them?

Someone started a thread asking for advice about how to wean their child and you came along and told them what they were doing was not okay and not acceptable at MDC. How is that not starting a debate? How is that accepting opinions that are different from your own?

Is what you really want a place where everyone will accept every single thing you say, but you're allowed to question and debate what they say?

You know what I've learned lately...If I want IRL mainstream people to accept the fact that I cosleep and am bf a 34 month old...I'm going to have to accept that they CIO and weaned at 6 months. No matter how much I disagree with it...no matter how much I don't like it.

And if you want the less crunchy MDC people to accept the fact that you're breastfeeding an eight-year-old...you're going to need to accept that some of them want to wean their fifteen month old and some want to put herbs on their nipple to wean their three-year old.

I'm sorry. Unless someone says I'm breaking the rules by being here...I'm not leaving. I'm not going to crawl back under my rock so you can have your perfect message board back. You know...it kind of reminds me of when we went to England. My family thought the diversity there was so nice. But than a "sweet" little old British lady told us about how things used to be so much better...so much better before all the Blacks and Indians and etc. moved there. Now things were too complicated. Her perfect little world was gone.

Dina

 

[MamaAllNatural]

Thirtycats, I'm not seeing how it is necessary or appropriate to turn this into a personal attack against Mother Sunshine.

I am getting rather uncomfortable with you comparing FF to CLW and even more so with you comparing Mother Sunshine to a terribly racist person.

I'm sure there's a more calm, respectful way we can discuss this.

 

[Sustainer]

Um, yeah, I think there's a subtle difference between being a racist and thinking that MDC, a natural parenting board, should be a place for child-led or at least child-respectful (gentle) weaning.

 

[mother_sunshine]

Deleted for the good of the community

Sorry everyone for the negativity...