[MacKinnon]

Hi- I've been involved with a rather ridiculous debate with someone who is insistent that I am wrong about the worldwide average age of weaning being 4. I've linked her to the Dettwyler article but that doesn't provide the "proof" that the average age of weaning is 4. Anyone have a link? Thanks!

 

[lactivist]

Here ya go!

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html
Wendi

 

[DreamsInDigital]

Ooh I love that website!

 

[MacKinnon]

That's the one I linked her to. She won't accept that because Dettwyler's study is for the natural age not a true average based on a worldwide study. She doesn't think that people really nurse that long and that extended breastfeeding is harmful because kids don't learn to self soothe

: and hubbies don't like it.

 

[Marco Esquandolas]

I should hit delete but will probably hit submit.

Umm, does it *really* matter? I don't have a link to 4 years. I have what most like the WHO and APA say-around 2 (wait, is that abbreviated for psyche or peds-I meant peds). Who is to say, really? It is personal. Does she REALLY need a quantifiable, hard core set number to help her sleep better at night. Sounds like it is HER issue. It is, in reality, btwn each mama and child, on an individual case by case basis so put that in your handy dandy stat bracket and chart it, missy (to her). You could point her here to our own child led weaning board and she'd get anecdotal for hours. What do you seek to achieve? Is she right? Are you? Maybe you both are for your own personal circumstances? Could you guys leave it at that?

I'm saying this from a very not good mental space right now (have bigger fish to fry on my mind right now) that she can go pack sand. or sit on a stick. or both. If she needs stats to prove what many easily feel is just naturally right, then maybe she best put the books down and get in touch w/herself and her own true feelings anyway. Maybe she wouldn't like what she'd find. I'm guessing she'd find that she could have done more and didn't b/c she was selfish or maybe b/c she didn't have good support. Don't waste your breath. None are so blind as those who will not see and if the shoe fits, they can wear it.

Thank goodness we here follow our own intuitions and our OWN CHILDREN!!!!! blechhhhhhh. whatever.

 

[MacKinnon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phishmama I should hit delete but will probably hit submit. Umm, does it *really* matter? I don't have a link to 4 years. I have what most like the WHO and APA say-around 2 (wait, is that abbreviated for psyche or peds-I meant peds). Who is to say, really? It is personal. Does she REALLY need a quantifiable, hard core set number to help her sleep better at night. Sounds like it is HER issue. It is, in reality, btwn each mama and child, on an individual case by case basis so put that in your handy dandy stat bracket and chart it, missy (to her). You could point her here to our own child led weaning board and she'd get anecdotal for hours. What do you seek to achieve? Is she right? Are you? Maybe you both are for your own personal circumstances? Could you guys leave it at that? I'm saying this from a very not good mental space right now (have bigger fish to fry on my mind right now) that she can go pack sand. or sit on a stick. or both. If she needs stats to prove what many easily feel is just naturally right, then maybe she best put the books down and get in touch w/herself and her own true feelings anyway. Maybe she wouldn't like what she'd find. I'm guessing she'd find that she could have done more and didn't b/c she was selfish or maybe b/c she didn't have good support. Don't waste your breath. None are so blind as those who will not see and if the shoe fits, they can wear it. Thank goodness we here follow our own intuitions and our OWN CHILDREN!!!!! blechhhhhhh. whatever.

Yeah, the whole thing really is stupid. I shut down the whole discussion after the last that was very rude. I basically told her that we do what is best for our family. "self soothing" doesn't matter to us, neither does what is "normal." And I really don't care what she thinks. But I really would like to be able to prove this point because she so adamatly insists that I just made up this 4 year old figure. She, after all, has travelled internationally and "knows" that this is not true.

:

So, the WHO says the world average for weaning is 2? Or is that the "babies should be breastfed until figure? Does anyone know if the 4 year old figure is accurate?

 

[lactivist]

So she would rather follow the crowd (average weaning age) then to follow her child's lead or a natural weaning age? I know rhetorical question. I would be frustrated as well and wouldn't really make any effort to prove anything to her. Kathy Dettwyler's information comes from a society that is a breastfeeding society (no bottles, pacifiers etc). I personally wouldn't give a rat's [email protected]@ about what everyone else in the world is doing. If we want to follow the average then in the U.S. only about 5% of babies are still nursing at a year. UGH! I would not want to be a part of that statistic. (the 95% part) I nursed my son until he was six years old so I am sort of biased. He definitely self soothes and is "normal" whatever that is. He is an incredible person that is very comfortable with who he is, my daughter that weaned early (to bottles due to my ignorance) isn't as confident. I completely think it is breastfeeding/attachment related.
Wendi

 

[Marco Esquandolas]

Yeah, these are recommended bf until or around ages (note the vagueness). Just like that what to expect book says optiomal until one, and all that. But then the snark in me comes out, and I have to ask, until what? 3? 4? Five or more? I can make a rhyme here....how about until cow milk magically replaces human milk for humans and is a good, safe idea?

: Then I get even more pissy and can't speak coherently. Ask alegna (just pulled her lactivist butt out b/c she seems to have actually been well read/well versed on this stuff and posts here semi-regularly) or some others who actually read this stuff. I'll be the first to admit that I go by intuition. I don't do well w/reading what I *should* do, b/c as a rule, I don't like being told what to do. I find it much more easy to do what feels right for me and my kids, but that kills the argument right there, b/c I don't have science to prove that my milk saved one of my boy's guts or that I just think it is best. period.

Remember, that even if you don't read, do understand that weaning is a full on process, and not a cold turkey thing. The first drink or eat of non mama milk is technically the beginning of weaning. There is huge variation in when that begins, as well as when it ends.

Many supplement w/table food and alt drinks, and still nurse to 4 or 5 or 6 or even older (I've seen a handful pop up here and there and admit it, you don't see it often, though-b/c we're made to feel dirty for admitting it so it is kept hush hush) and beyond......"normal" and "average" when not scientifically quanitified are about like not bothering to utter the words for some.....I say, why mess w/nature? Must we quantify every process of our beings? For some, apparently we do. I feel sorry for them. They can't get in touch w/themselves. the end.

 

[Dido]

I believe I've read here on MDC that the average weaning age worldwide being 4 is akin to an urban legend. If it were true, think about how many millions of 5 to 7 year olds would be getting breastfed. I think that if that were such a worldwide phenomenon, we'd have plenty of pix and info about it. I agree with those who posted saying the average doesn't matter. What matters is what babies are born to do.