[blueridgewoman]

I've been working really hard to get dd to latch on asymmetrically. She has a slightly high palate and I have huge breasts and nipples, so we've had a really hard time breastfeeding.<br><br>
After she feeds, my nipple is lipstick shaped. I thought that was okay until I read on another thread that it was problematic. I do have an obvious pinch line, but is the lipstick shape itself an indication of a poor latch? How can I improve this?

 

[superfastreader]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>blueridgewoman</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10279320"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I've been working really hard to get dd to latch on asymmetrically. She has a slightly high palate and I have huge breasts and nipples, so we've had a really hard time breastfeeding.<br><br>
After she feeds, my nipple is lipstick shaped. I thought that was okay until I read on another thread that it was problematic. I do have an obvious pinch line, but is the lipstick shape itself an indication of a poor latch? How can I improve this?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
that is a sign of tongue tie--i had the same issue before we had it clipped (our story is in my sig).<br><br>
here's kellymom's resource page:<br><a href="http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/bfhelp-tonguetie.html" target="_blank">http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns...tonguetie.html</a>

 

[turtlewomyn]

I was going to say that I remember having this problem and I don't remember how i fixed it, but I suppose it did get fixed after I had dd's tongue tie clipped. Can't it also be result of a high palate?<br>
Are you in pain? Are your nipples cracking at all? How is the babe's weight gain?

 

[thixle]

Mine resolved after a few weeks, I don't remember anything I did other than unlatch and relatch when I felt the pinching (I thought it was normal at first, so i didn't do that until my nipples were really sore)...<br><br>
But yeah, DD was not tongue-tied, but does have a rather high palate (compared to mine and DH).

 

[blueridgewoman]

I'm in tremendous pain. I have been since she was born. I've gotten used to it now, though, I guess- I don't dread nursing anymore, but we've never had a pain free nursing session.<br><br>
I had her checked by an LC- would tongue tie be readily apparent just by looking in her mouth?<br><br>
My daughter has had slow weight gain. It's picking up now, but it was really rough at first. She was small too, and still is. No matter how many times I relatch her, I always have a pinch on my nipple. I've spent about 8 hours with LCs and have just kind of lost hope of a pain free bf relationship, honestly.<br><br>
Oh, and dd is three months now.

 

[blueridgewoman]

Wait- superfastreader. I was reading your tongue tie story and something really stuck out to me. When I was a kid, I never had trouble breastfeeding, but later on, I had a series of retainers and had to get my palate widened just like your brother- with a key that would spread the retainer wider and wider. Is that relevant at all here? Could my daughter have inherited a palate issue from me?

 

[PatioGardener]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>blueridgewoman</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10279320"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I've been working really hard to get dd to latch on asymmetrically. She has a slightly high palate and I have huge breasts and nipples, so we've had a really hard time breastfeeding.<br><br>
After she feeds, my nipple is lipstick shaped. I thought that was okay until I read on another thread that it was problematic. I do have an obvious pinch line, but is the lipstick shape itself an indication of a poor latch? How can I improve this?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Usually with a good latch the nipples come out round, like they were before latching. Do you have any pain with the latch? Is she transfering milk well? (Swallowing often?) With good milk transfer and no pain, then your latch is probably good.<br><br>
If she has a high palate, have you tried the 'bulls-eye' latch? It may be worth trying. Of course, it is not asymmetrical at all. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="innocent"> If it doesn't work, you probably want to go back to what you are doing now...<br><br>
anyway, here it is:<br>
with a high palate the nipple can get caught on the palate and rub, causing pain. To prevent this, the nipple has to go in deep (deep latch), to get back behind the part of the palate that rubs. To do this, some women find that aiming the nipple at the back of the mouth - straight in - rather than up like in the asymmetrical latch, helps.<br><br>
How to:<br>
Make a breast sandwich by squeezing the breast flat close to the areola but not touching it. Flatten it in the direction of baby's mouth. Bring baby to the breast straight on, so the nipple goes right into the mouth, and the areola and some breast too. Bulls-eye. Slowly release the sandwich, and do brest compressions until the baby starts to suck and swallow.<br><br>
Maybe worth a try?<br><br>
I hope that things get easier soon. You're working hard - keep at it! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">

 

[superfastreader]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>blueridgewoman</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10280492"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Wait- superfastreader. I was reading your tongue tie story and something really stuck out to me. When I was a kid, I never had trouble breastfeeding, but later on, I had a series of retainers and had to get my palate widened just like your brother- with a key that would spread the retainer wider and wider. Is that relevant at all here? Could my daughter have inherited a palate issue from me?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
yes--it is hereditary.<br>
a type 4 can be hard to spot but a good LC can help. or a bf friendly ped who knows tt--

 

[adoremybabe]

FWIW - my 7 mo dd seems to nurse just fine and everytime she is done my nipple is shaped like a lipstick.

 

[blueridgewoman]

She transfers milk just fine I think, but I always have pain.... Maybe I'll give the bull's eye latch a try and call my ped about tongue tie. It's worth investigating, and my LC just took a quick look with her tongue down and didn't lift it or anything like that.<br><br>
How is tongue tie remedied, exactly? When they clip it, will it hurt her?

 

[turtlewomyn]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>blueridgewoman</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10282909"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br>
How is tongue tie remedied, exactly? When they clip it, will it hurt her?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Well, I suppose a little bit. I think some doctors will put in a shot of local. I had a hard time finding someone to do it without putting DD under GA. This was of course a pedicatric surgeon and then an ENT who both told me tongue tie does not affect breastfeeding, but they would do it anyway. I finally found this doctor: <a href="http://twofloridadocs.com" target="_blank">http://twofloridadocs.com</a> and my DD's tongue tie was clipped when she was a month old. She cried a bit and there was some blood, and of course we got her right back on to nurse (which is good for pain relief). I did give her tylenol that night. The difference in my pain levels was so profound, it was worth it. I was in so much pain that I would have not been able to continue nursing her, so the small amount of pain was worth it to have her continue to receive breastmilk (we are at 27 months of nursing and counting now).

 

[superfastreader]

DD got a topical. I think her main discomfort was being held down for 5min. The earlier the better, for pain.

 

[jul511riv]

I had pain with dd and the 3 month mark was when it was the worst!<br><br>
She, too was TEENY TINY but gaining fine and I have very large breasts but small nipples.<br><br>
After several LC and hours and hours of trying to fix what was wrong, we noticed that she had a high or "bubble" palate and my nipple was just going right in there and there wasn't a damn thing anyone could do aobut it.<br><br>
Maybe she had a tie too...though no one ever saw one and they were specifically loooking. It was just the way it was. It got better over time but I ultimately weaned her when she was 16 months for that and several other reasons, including pregnancy with ds.<br><br>
Ds also has a high palate and there is now some pain that his teeth have come in, as I just feel the pressure of those sharp teeth on delicate skin, but the pain in the beginning was never the same as with dd, thank G-d!!!

 

[blueridgewoman]

I've been trying the bulls eye latch and that's actually a lot worse in terms of pain. It doesn't seem to make a difference in the way she transfers milk or the quantity though. I experimented a bit and it seems like somewhere between a perfect asymmetric latch and a bulls eye works the best for us.<br><br>
I think I'll get her evaluated for tongue tie. As it is, I'm terrified of her getting teeth if this is how it feels without. And you're right, temporary pain is probably better than earlier weaning.

 

[PatioGardener]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>blueridgewoman</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10288095"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I experimented a bit and it seems like somewhere between a perfect asymmetric latch and a bulls eye works the best for us.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Sorry about the added pain with the bulls eye latch, but I'm glad you have found a custom latch that works better for you.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I think I'll get her evaluated for tongue tie.</td>
</tr></table></div>
I think this is a great idea. If she is tongue tied, then having it clipped will likely decrease the pain a lot.<br><br>
Are you able to take anything for your pain? Sometimes moms benefit from some ibuprofen or tylenol, if that is normally taken for pain with no problems.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> I really hope it gets better soon.

 

[Nan'sMom]

I agree...go to an LC used to dealing with tongue tie and get her evaluated. I had dd1's tongue tie clipped and it helped a lot with similar things, although ours was worse at first and we supplemented with formula for around 10 days (under the advice of an LC and only when really pushed to it...not the direction we wanted to go in at all!). We used arnica 30C instead of Tylenol and it worked very well. No novocaine shots, just topical stuff. It was pretty awful honestly, but quick and I held her immediately before and after...I would not have consented to her being taken away from me or given general anesthesia, as some docs want to do. It should just be a quick clip...but really research who you go to...ours was a surgeon, which I feel most comfortable with...I doubt I'd trust a ped, and many under-clip because they're scared of doing surgery and then it doesn't help much. Feel free to pm me.

 

[blueridgewoman]

Honestly, I think I would rather just hurt each time she eats than cause her pain. It makes me cry just thinking about it, when I *really* think about it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/mecry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="crying">

 

[TattoMomK]

OK am I the odd wo-man out?<br><br>
My nipples always look like lipstick tubes after a nursing!?!<br><br>
I have nursed four children now, and yes while nursing my first hurt the boobies for 6 weeks, and subsequent babes were just a bit o' pain in the first week (from being unused for a few years maybe? no cracks or bleeding, just tender) -- it doesn't hurt at all.<br><br>
We have had no tongue tie issues, no high palate issues, no weight gain issues, no supply problems. The only difference or factor I can think of is my nips were pierced before having kids.<br><br>
My nips just look like a tube of lipstick after nursing -- I thought it was normal! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/innocent.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shy"><br><br>
Are you in pain OP? Is your babe gaining well? Is your lipstick nips longer at the top of the nipple like mine?

 

[PatioGardener]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>blueridgewoman</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10294450"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Honestly, I think I would rather just hurt each time she eats than cause her pain. It makes me cry just thinking about it, when I *really* think about it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/mecry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="crying"></div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
If the tongue tie is a classical one, it is a thin strip of skin/tissue with no nerves or blood vessels. There is no pain (or very little, short) with clipping, and often no bleeding. Baby goes right to the breast afterwards. The only stress for the baby is to be held still for about 30 seconds during the clipping, and to have some gloved fingers or a small tongue lifting tool in her mouth. Most babies get angry, not scared/sad.<br><br>
I think it is important to think of both the risks and benefits from the procedure - painfree nursing is much easier to continue for 2-3 years than painful nursing. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"><br><br>
ETA: The older the baby gets, the thicker the tongue tie becomes, and the more complicated it becomes to cut it.

 

[kristen1978]

Wanted to add a thought:<br><br>
BTDT with the tight tongue (never had DS clipped, just eventually got more comfortable over time and now no pain at 4 months). One thing that REALLY helped (more than the 3 LCs) was taking homeopathic arnica RELIGIOUSLY. Specifically, Traumeel which has a few other herbs in it. After a couple of weeks it healed the bruising and I finally began to feel a difference. I took it for about 6 weeks, and then no longer needed it.<br><br>
HTH!