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LLL supporting Hollister

1255 Views 26 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  umami_mommy
This is cross-posted in Lactivism because it falls under both areas. I was looking at the web page for World Breastfeeding Week and I noticed an ad and a link to the Hollister page. Yes, I understand they make breast pumps (I own an Ameda Purely Yours myself), but they also make the Plastibell circumcision device. The trauma of circumcision is a known facilitator of breastfeeding failure. It makes me sad that LLL would support the manufacturers of such a device.

http://www.lllusa.org/wbw/
LLL's World Breastfeeding Week page.

http://www.hollister.com/us/products...id=4&family=24
Hollister's Plastibell page.

FYI, on Hollister's page, you can request a sample of the product (the Plastibell). This can be useful when educating others about circumcision because you can show them exactly what is used in a Plastibell circ.
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We could start a letter writing campaign to Hollister by breastfeeding supporters (I know LLL can't have a policy on circ). Enough individual women writing and explaining their aversion to supporting the cos products while they profit from infant torture might steer their corporate hearts in a better direction. One of my family members has to buy their ostomy products and I have written before telling them how we really like their ostomy bags but hate dealing with a co that profits from circ. When we start raising our voices, corporations pay attention. Baybee
I just sent an e-mail to
Mary Lofton, 847-592-7558 [email protected]
she's in charge of the WBW stuff.

I suggest everyone else does the same and let them know your opinions.

Here's what I wrote:
I just wanted to let someone know of my extreme disappointment in seeing Hollister displayed as a sponsor of WBW activities. It seems to me they have a conflict of interest because although they make breast pumps to facilitate breastfeeding they also make the Plastibell device for infant circumcision. I am disappointed that LLL would accept sponsorship from a company that participates in advancing the mutilation of babies with circumcision. I hope LLL will think of the repercussions of accepting sponsorship from such a company in the future. It is very sad to see the names LLL and Holister appear as though they are in a partnership. I am a huge supporter of LLL, however I am a huge opponent of infant circumcision.

Please reconsider allowing Hollister to support LLL in any future endeavors, they are not a company I want to see LLL endorsing.

Sincerely,
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2
Quote:

Originally Posted by baybee
(I know LLL can't have a policy on circ).
Boy do I know this is true. I made the mistake of talking about the Metzitzah b'peh (Hebrew for "oral suction") case in NYC before a meeting and I was told in not-so-friendly terms by the LLL leader that I am never to discuss circumcision at the meetings. She made it clear that LLL is about breastfeeding support and does not take a stand on circ.
She also denied that the story was true about the ultra-orthodox and this practice.

Needless to say, I was embarrassed and switched to another LLL group.

I found this all so amusing, this only talk about breastfeeding support because other mothers could be upset by my words. At the previous meeting, mothers were talking about other current events like a mother drowning her children by throwing them off a pier. Wouldn't this upset a new mother?
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I love LLL, except this issue. It tears me to pieces. I really don't understand how it can be a non-issue. So they say no mama, don't get an epi the drug crossing into babe's system can rouine bf'ing (I know it's true) but then don't have the guts to say that amputating a part of the baby's body will affect it to. Oyyyyyyyyyyy
I can understand the LLL policy of being a one-issue org. It's the same difficulty we get into on this forum. Trying to make it a safe space to discuss ONE important issue. Many groups have broken apart because they go off-purpose and fracture their body of support.

If you let LLL groups discuss circ, then it would be abortion, home birth, politics, religion, etc. Human beings are not capable of getting along when they have too many topics to fight about. You'll notice that big, successful self help groups e.g. Alcoholics Anonymous (and other 12 Step), La Leche League are very strict about staying on topic. That way, they can welcome everyone who seeks their help on that particular issue and alienate no one.

I think letters to the WBW would do best to stick to how circumcision has been proven to interfere with good breastfeeding. It's on topic for them. Baybee
just as i believe martin luther king's cause for civil rights in this country was diluted by his anti-war in vietnam stance, i think LLL's cause would be diluted if they took a stance on anything other than breastfeeding.

i wholeheartedly agree with MLK's stance on the war and the fact that so many that died there were black and poor. the causes *were* linked, but nonetheless it diluted his CR cause. same with LLL. i am anti-circ, believe that circ-ing your child and attachment simply do not go togther. however, i support LLL in not diluting their casue. and i understand how some mamas cannot reconcile this in their minds and hearts.

and coalition building (like around world breastfeeding week) makes for strange bedfellows. it's just the nature of coalitions and networking.
I think it would be well within LLL's "sphere of influence" to state that circumcision has an effect on the establishment and continuance of breastfeeding. I could understand if they refused to take a stance on its supposed health benefits and whether or not it's right or wrong, but you can't deny that it can and does affect breastfeeding. I don't see why it would be an issue for them to come out with a statement to the effect of "Neonatal circumcision can interfere with the establishment of successful breastfeeding due to the pain involved and the tendency of the infant to sleep for long periods following the surgery." They could say the same thing about any surgical procedure and it wouldn't be a judgement on the procedure itself.
Quote:

Originally Posted by minkajane
I think it would be well within LLL's "sphere of influence" to state that circumcision has an effect on the establishment and continuance of breastfeeding. I could understand if they refused to take a stance on its supposed health benefits and whether or not it's right or wrong, but you can't deny that it can and does affect breastfeeding. I don't see why it would be an issue for them to come out with a statement to the effect of "Neonatal circumcision can interfere with the establishment of successful breastfeeding due to the pain involved and the tendency of the infant to sleep for long periods following the surgery." They could say the same thing about any surgical procedure and it wouldn't be a judgement on the procedure itself.
agreed.

This is kind of sad considering I was contemplating contacting LLL for help in teaching Em to latch and to further my relactation efforts
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Quote:

Originally Posted by minkajane
I think it would be well within LLL's "sphere of influence" to state that circumcision has an effect on the establishment and continuance of breastfeeding. I could understand if they refused to take a stance on its supposed health benefits and whether or not it's right or wrong, but you can't deny that it can and does affect breastfeeding. I don't see why it would be an issue for them to come out with a statement to the effect of "Neonatal circumcision can interfere with the establishment of successful breastfeeding due to the pain involved and the tendency of the infant to sleep for long periods following the surgery." They could say the same thing about any surgical procedure and it wouldn't be a judgement on the procedure itself.
Yes, exactly. Respectfully one issue, but give women the facts. Like the above... those are facts, those are not judgemental or unrespectful of cultures/opinions. I'd be pissed if I wasn't give that information and later found out-- and had a notion that I could have prevented problems.

THERE IS NO REASON IN THE WORLD THAT CIRCS ARE DONE TO 1-2 DAY OLD INFANTS EXCEPT THAT IS WHAT WE ARE USED TO.

Geesh. Just delay it till breastfeeding is established.

If it is that darn important to you, make a trip back to the hospital or dr to have it done AFTER BF'ING IS ESTABLISHED.

:

Jessica
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This is kind of sad considering I was contemplating contacting LLL for help in teaching Em to latch and to further my relactation efforts

Pick up the phone and call them. It is such a valuable resource in your community. LLL has made a huge contribution to the health and wellbeing
of so many families. Let's not get ridiculous in our zeal to end circ. and end up cutting ourselves off from good folks who just need to focus on one subject. I'm sure that there are lots of pro intact private conversations at LLL that take place after the "official" meetings are done. They don't have a policy on homebirth, either, but I have had many referrals for homebirths through women who attend League meetings and then go for "coffee" afterwards.

Baybee
Quote:

Originally Posted by minkajane
This is cross-posted in Lactivism because it falls under both areas. I was looking at the web page for World Breastfeeding Week and I noticed an ad and a link to the Hollister page. Yes, I understand they make breast pumps (I own an Ameda Purely Yours myself), but they also make the Plastibell circumcision device. The trauma of circumcision is a known facilitator of breastfeeding failure. It makes me sad that LLL would support the manufacturers of such a device.

http://www.lllusa.org/wbw/
LLL's World Breastfeeding Week page.

http://www.hollister.com/us/products...id=4&family=24
Hollister's Plastibell page.

FYI, on Hollister's page, you can request a sample of the product (the Plastibell). This can be useful when educating others about circumcision because you can show them exactly what is used in a Plastibell circ.
Awesome. I submitted a request. We need one for the NOCIRC booth. We have a Gomco clamp and a Circumstraint- and USED to have a Mogen, but I didn't see it last time I wasthere.
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I totally agree with Baybee on the LLL thing. Just because the official LLL policy is "X" that doesn't mean that all the members buy in to it.

On an individual basis many leaders have their own opinion and just don't use their authority to promote their opinion.

And, there is nothing stopping people from asking about this issue-- leaders CAN talk about it if asked. In fact, there is also nothing wrong with calling lll up and saying, you knwo I want to join up but I wish you changed your policy on the circ issue.

It's just like passing laws, the more people that stand up and voice their opinions, the more likely people listen and make the changes.

Jessica
Hollister got the "Platinum Sponsor Award" for giving $3000. Grrrrr.

If only the anti-circumcision groups had money. Then we could come up with even more money than Hollister next year and have our logo brandished across the page. Meanwhile, we would have really put the pressure on LLL to refuse Hollister's offer b/c of its unethical ties to the circumcision industry.
It was the 1983 edition of The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding that introduced me to NOCIRC and it it weren't for that, my son may have ended up being circumcised. As I have posted before, my son was left intact and I got some bad advise from his ped about retraction. A reply to my letter to NOCIRC by Marilyn Milos along with a bunch of info is what set me straight and here I am today!

I haven't seen the new editions of TWA but I'm guessing NOCIRC is no longer in the back of the book as a resource for LLL moms. That makes me just want to cry...
:

For all the good they do for BF moms, it almost makes me want to send moms away from them-- Just because...

Lily livered cowards!
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I agree that they shouldn't deviate from promoting breastfeeding, but just to officially recognise that circumcision does adversely affect bfing... I don't think that's asking too much or that an official stance on JUST THAT PART of circumcision would cause them to deviate from their main goal.

Just my .02


love and peace.
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LLL doesn't take issue with circumcision because their mission is breastfeeding. While recognizing that circumcision and other surgeries can cause a distruption and damage to the breastfeeding relationship, if they take a formal stance against circumcision then they can potentially alienate mothers that circumcise their sons. Since most moms come to LLL after they have had children they cannot change what has already been done. I, at least, think that despite whether a child has been circumcised they still deserve a nursing relationship and would not want to jeopardize that at all.

I still remain vehemently against circumcision. I am just beginning the leadership program so it will be a challenge for me to give circumcision advice while maintaining the LLL message and integrity.
If you're writing letters, you might find this reference useful.

Circumcision Leads to Breastfeeding Complications

Need another reason to skip routine circumcision? For over twenty years, studies conducted by medical doctors and researchers have documented a connection between circumcision and breastfeeding complications. According to findings, the newly circumcised infant expresses noticeably decreased responses to a mother's attempts at engaging their attention. This "subdued" behavior has been linked by several researchers in separate studies to a subsequent struggle in the achievement of successful breastfeeding. Research has also demonstrated that following circumcision, infants suffer from "prolonged periods of non-REM sleep," a symptom that would further contribute to inactive and unreceptive tendencies.

Some of the infants observed in one study were supplemented with formula after circumcision-due either to frustration on the part of the mother from failed breastfeeding attempts or because doctors felt the infant was incapable of postoperative breastfeeding. Because infants usually leave the hospital seven to ten hours after the operation (many leave as early as three to six hours post-op) the long-term negative effects of circumcision on breastfeeding is more difficult to determine; however, "the observed deterioration in ability to breastfeed may potentially contribute to breastfeeding failure."

Despite the fact that "circumcision is a painful, stressful, exhausting, and traumatic experience for many infants," as many as 45% of doctors ignore the recommendation by medical authorities to use an anesthetic during the procedure. Because conclusive benefits of infant circumcision are not evident, there is no danger in refusing or delaying the procedure. The Work Group on Breastfeeding of the American Academy of Pediatrics officially discourages "stressful procedures" such as circumcision and promotes breastfeeding as "primary in achieving optimal infant and child health, growth, and development."

Source: Journal of Human Lactation 19(1), 2003.
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3
Quote:

Originally Posted by mamao'two
I still remain vehemently against circumcision. I am just beginning the leadership program so it will be a challenge for me to give circumcision advice while maintaining the LLL message and integrity.
I hadn't thought about that before... I probably would never be able to become a LLL leader just because I can't keep my mouth shut about circumcision (just a personal thing that I hadn't considered
, good for you for doing it
). Best wishes with the program!

love and peace.
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