[JayGee]

Ds is 2 1/2 and a very easy-going boy. Not much gets him riled up, he rarely tantrums, and moves easily from one activity to another (don't hate me, please

). I've been using logical consequences for his misbehaviors but it's just not working because he doesn't seem to care when I take something away!

Example from today:
I bought a big pad of newsprint paper for coloring and put it out with crayons in the kitchen. Before we started I asked him, "Where do you color with the crayons?"
He replies, "On the paper, Mama."
I ask, "What happens if the crayons aren't on the paper?"
He answers, "Mama takes the crayons away."
All clear, right!

So we both color together for about 15 minutes, but I have to go into the laundry room for a minute to move stuff from the washer to the dryer. I come back and there is blue crayon all over the kitchen floor and the new carpet in the next room over. I am PISSED! But I calmly say, "Jacob, since you colored on the floor and not on the paper, I'm taking the crayons away." I pack them up while he merrily moves on to building houses for his cars out of blocks. He doesn't care that I've taken away the crayons. No fussing, no whining, nothing. Just moves right on. I feel like the logical consequence isn't working at all. We've been over this a million times. My SIL did the same consequence with her son (who is 5 months younger) and within a week they had no more coloring on the walls, floor, etc.

Am I going about this incorrectly? My Mom says to put him in time out, but I don't really agree with time outs for punishment, particularly when time out doesn't really connect at all to coloring on the floor. Ideas???

 

[mamaduck]

Several thoughts off the top of my head:

1) Maybe he isn't ready to have crayons when he is alone. Another logical consequence is that he can only hold a crayon when a grown-up is there to watch. If you don't walk away or give him opportunity to misbehave, then you reinforce the habit of proper behavior. If you *must* leave the room, take him with you. Or take the crayons with you.

2) Another logical consequence is helping to scrub the crayon mess.

3) Consequences don't have to "hurt" or cause distress to be useful tools. He can move merrily on to the next activity, and thats just fine. The behavior is still halted. No need for tears.

4) Give it time. Lots of time. Self-discipline (which you are trying to teach him) rarely happens overnight.

 

[luv my 2 sweeties]

Just a thought... If he consistantly just moves on to the next thing, perhaps you could end the activity a bit sooner -- before he becomes destructive. So maybe you could have said (anticpating the possibility of crayon everywhere) "DS, I have to go put some clothes in the dryer. Would you like to play with your cars while I'm doing that, or would you like to come with me?" Then you can either have him help put away the crayons and get him started on the cars, OR you can have him come with you and come back to the coloring (or something else when you are done.) If he protests that he wants to keep coloring while you are gone -- 2 ideas: At 2 1/2, I'd probably just say, "Sorry, Mommy has to be in the room when you are coloring -- that's the rule." When he gets a little older (3 1/2 or so), you can use the natural consequence approach: "Yesterday, when I left you alone with the playdoh, you smushed it into the carpet. I'm not ready to let you be alone with crayons until I know that you will follow the rules while I'm gone." Of course, then you have to give him chances to show that he can follow the rules from time to time. Perhaps by then, it won't be much of a problem. They mature a lot in that year between 2 1/2 and 3 1/2!

I'm a not a great one to talk -- I'm pretty bad about thinking ahead when it comes to stuff like this. But I think it's the key to less frustration with toddlers! When I *do* manage to put my ideals into practice, they usually work pretty well!

 

[Dragonfly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamaduck Several thoughts off the top of my head: 1) Maybe he isn't ready to have crayons when he is alone.

This was my first thought, too. You're setting him up for failure by leaving him alone with the crayons and a huge, beckoning canvas. 2-year-olds don't have the level of impulse control it takes to resist that.

ITA with helping to clean up the mess (if he's willing). It doesn't have to be drudgery, though - it can be fun.

 

[mamaduck]

I agree with Stephanie's post, and I should have clarified that I don't think you need to focus on driving home the connection between behaivor and consequence when you are dealing with a 2.5 year old. Not leaving him alone with crayons *is* a logical consequence, but its also a logical solution from an adult POV and that is probably where the focus should be.

Then again... I've never been one to go out of my way to point out the obvious to my kids in these situations. Either they "get the connection" or they don't.

 

[Piglet68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamaduck Not leaving him alone with crayons *is* a logical consequence, but its also a logical solution from an adult POV and that is probably where the focus should be.

 

[phathui5]

"He doesn't care that I've taken away the crayons. No fussing, no whining, nothing. Just moves right on. I feel like the logical consequence isn't working at all."

What do you mean by not working? I don't see logical consequences as being the same as punishment. The point isn't to hurt the child or make them feel bad. The point is that that is just what happens. Using crayons off the paper = losing the crayons. Whether or not he gets upset, you followed through with what you said you would do.

I also think he's probably a little young to be with crayons unsupervised. My ds wasn't good with them alone at that age. Now, he's fine.

 

[Embee]

Indeed, ITA agree with what's been said here. Logical consequences are just that. They don't have to be something he reacts strongly to to be useful. At this age, I found DS to be testing his limits quite a lot in this way. Like, picking flowers in the garden meant we went inside for a time. Somedays, he do it over and over and didn't seem the least bit upset by my keeping the standard. One day I even said to him (in a silly way), "DS, I don't want you picking flowers in the garden and it means we'll have to go inside for a while, BUT you don't have to pick flowers because you're ready to go inside." We both giggled. I really wonder if that was his sign for wanting to go inside because the behavior stopped after that.

Anyway, I wanted to add here we're talking about an age where impulse control is still a huge work in progress, in that sometimes just by bringing something up, you can unwittingly put a challenge before your DS that he can't possibly resist. By going over the ground rules of the crayons before you sat down to color with him, you planted a seed so to speak. The intentions are good, certainly there had been previous offense, no? My feeling is, if I truly want your DS to have opportunities to practice right behavior, then you need to go into with him the next time around via a fresh start. To offer up the rules is almost to say, "I remember what happened last time, and I'm concerned it's going to happen again." In other words, he sort of loses face before the opportunity even begins. KWIM? And then of course, having pointed out which behavior constitutes infraction (i e., coloring on anything other than the paper), you plant the information and lay out a challenge that at 2 1/2 is nearly irresistable. I'd save the groundrules and just enforce the consequence AFTER/IF the infraction occurs. As many times as necessary. And at this age, that can also be considerable.

The best and hang in there.

 

[JayGee]

Thank you all so much for your insight. I think I've made a few mistakes here, the most notable being:
1) Expecting too much from a 2 1/2 year old regarding self-discipline
2) Equating consequence with punishment. I'm having a hard time with this as punishment was a big thing in my home as a child.

Thank you for the good suggestions and I feel much better about yesterday's events now. Sometimes I just need the reminder that he's only a 2 1/2 year old, not an adult

.

 

[scorpioqueen]

Just a few comments I agree with the person(s) who said he just shouldn't be left alone with the crayons at this point in time. That buy it self is the logical conquence. Also remember a child doesn't need to cry or complain show remorse ect for the message to be their.

Deanna