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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, this is part vent and part question....<br><br>
Here's my situation. We have made the decision I will be going back to work FT when DD is 11.5 months old. We live close to DH's work downtown and have one car. I would be taking it to work in the burbs. I work very early hours (7-3:30) so finding childcare is going to be a challenge.<br><br>
We thought we had a nanny share lined up and a lot of these issues solved, but that fell through when the other mama found a day home. I am starting to think it's for the best - we could barely afford a nanny between the two of us and I don't want to be a crappy employer who pays low.<br><br>
With the money we'd budgeted for a nanny share, we can afford a day home without price being the deciding factor (to a point.) I've talking to providers though and I'm wondering how many of our values we will have to compromise in order to get DD into care. First and foremost I want to find a gentle, loving place for DD. I am willing to compromise on cloth diapering and I'm OK with slightly laxer standards for nutrition and TV. (We do whole foods/most cooking from scratch/no sugar and no TV, but if the kids watch a small amount of TV and eat some foods I'm not crazy about - OK, I know she's going to get my "A game" at home. But if it's TV on in the background all day and it's Kraft Dinner and hot dogs - not OK.)<br><br>
Where I'm getting worried though is the gentle, loving part. I talked to one provider the other day and she was saying she would expect DD to hold her own bottle and go down for naps on her own with maybe a bit of a backrub. She says she gets most babies on her nap schedule within a couple of weeks and doesn't go in if they cry. I don't want DD to CIO!! I asked what would happen if the kid cried for an hour, and she said that would be unacceptable to her and she would work with the parents to find a solution (i.e. dropping morning nap, change in routine.) So she is not hardcore CIO, but still sending up red flags for me.<br><br>
The thing is, her requirements sound reasonable - if she is taking care of 5 kids, she can't be rocking them all down for 1/2 hour on each nap - that would be crazy. And I am totally OK with the idea of an 11.5 month old holding their own bottle. I think I could even get DD closer to this point over the next 2 mos. Her naps have gotten much more regular since she started crawling and she requires parenting down, but not always nursing. She doesn't do bottles or pacis so I'm not sure exactly *how* but it seems possible. (I was planning to do give her solids and sippy cups when she's away from me.)<br><br>
What I'm worried about though is if I make all these interventions in DD's life...get her to nap on her own, probably need to reduce night waking (it's once an hour sometimes, I don't see how that's compatible with me working)...will she wean as soon as I put her in a day home? And how much do I compromise our values? Child care spots are pretty scarce in this city, especially with my shift being so early. I talked to my boss and it can NOT be changed.
 

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Keep looking. My home care provider doesn't do CIO. She has 6 children total, and another adult helping her. She's warm, loving and has decades of experience with kids.<br><br>
No TV. Home-cooked lunch. The kids spend a lot of time outside in local parks when the weather allows.<br><br>
She's Salvadoran; my general impression is that her culture's basic values toward children and family are quite AP, even if she wouldn't necessarily call it that.
 

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I have one baby that I watch four days a week (in addition to my own four kids) and then two sibling pairs two days a week each. I don't use CIO at naptime and I have three kids to get down for a nap every day (the little three sleep and the older ones read).<br><br>
Can you get recommendations from your local La Leche League?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I can try LLL. Didn't get any recs from the AP playgroup which is many of the same people.
 

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I can't address your concerns about this specific provider, and I can't address the home provider thing because Lucy is in a center. A couple of things though:<br><br>
* At 11 months, she doesn't need to be introduced to a bottle. She can have a sippy cup or a Sigg bottle.<br>
* Lucy went to daycare for the first time at 13 months. I never pumped--she just had water at daycare (yes, it was tough on me for a few days!). She essentially nurses when she's with me (evenings, weekends, vacation, summer break), and doesn't when she's not. This has worked for us--she's still nursing at almost 26 months.<br>
* Naps--Lucy still needs nursing to sleep when she's with me. She goes to sleep completely easily and on her own at "school"--in fact, one of her teachers commented on it. They said, we just say "Lucy, it's time to sleep," and she lays down and takes her nap. Wow. I have no idea how they pulled it off.
 

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I have come around to the idea that center care may be a better bet than home-based providers. There are pros and cons to each, to be sure. But -- in a center environment generally babies are not simply left to CIO, because no one can take being right there in the same room with that for long, and it upsets all the other children. Whereas I think it is not uncommon in a home environment for a provider to simply put the baby in a remote room, shut the door, and turn up the TV for the other kids (I have lurked on home daycare boards where people are completely upfront about doing this, "the baby has to learn our schedule here" etc).<br><br>
With regard to your schedule and commute issues, I'm wondering if there's a downtown center where your DH can walk/push a stroller to do the morning drop off at a reasonable hour (8:30?) and then you pick up at 3:30.
 

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I'm switching to a center here shortly due to the same concerns. It seems that the home day care providers that I find are more interested in their own lives that my child's. There have been times when I hear the provider say things like, oh I only have Ayla today, so I'll get so much housekeeping done, etc., etc. Or the running around town thing. I just want a bit more supervision, I think. I can't clean my house or vacuum my car or whatnot when I'm working--why should I be paying someone to do a job when they do this as well? I understand it's a fringe benefit of running a day care out of the home, but for goodness sake, at least be in the same room as my dd when she's awake. I would absolutely go with a center in your situation. But of couse, a good one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
All the daycare centres around here have waiting lists of 2+ years. For reasons that I won't go into here, we didn't make the decision that I would be working until DD was 6mo. Also most of the downtown centres are run by corporations for their employees.<br><br>
I wouldn't rule out finding a day home downtown and I am looking, but they would still have to take DD at 6:30 anyway. DH is on a rotation where half of shifts start at 6:00 a.m.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lanamommyphd07</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9002249"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm switching to a center here shortly due to the same concerns. It seems that the home day care providers that I find are more interested in their own lives that my child's. There have been times when I hear the provider say things like, oh I only have Ayla today, so I'll get so much housekeeping done, etc., etc.</div>
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I'm a HOME daycare provider.....and the whole point of home daycare is having kids in a home environment where they are part of a family. Being part of a family included seeing housework get done (If I didn't do housework during the day I'd get shut down for filth.) and even helping out with it. By the time the kids are 2 years old I have them scraping their plates into the trash and helping to put their plate in the dishwasher. My home is run like a family. This is great for kids, especially younger kids. I treat all of the children as if they were my own. I teach them to clean up after themselves, help their friends clean up when overwhelmed, and pitch in with chores....because it leaves a lot more time for play and arts and crafts if everyone pitches in and helps. Now I'm AP so I don't just leave a baby alone in a room while I scrub the kitchen. I'll have the baby in a wrap if I'm using non-toxic supplies, or the baby will at least be where he/she can see me and hear me. And I stop what I doing if the baby needs something. I think it's great, because it becomes a second home to the child, a place to feel safe and loved.
 

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Oh, I wanted to address running erands etc.<br><br>
Most people get a lunch break so that they can go to the bank etc. The bank is open from 9am to 430pm...as is the post office. My first child arrives at 7am, and the last one goes home at 6pm....so when would I go to the post office or the bank if I needed to? Again, it goes to being part of a family etc.
 

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My DS is in a home daycare and I find his care is very AP. He is on a routine but I have never seen his dcp allow any of the kids to CIO. The kids sleep on mats in the living room (if old enough) or in a pack n play so they are not shut in another room. There have been many times I have come and my DS is being cuddled. There is routine because there has to be with 5 kids. I pumped until he was a year and he continued to nurse for another year so daycare did not play an issue in weaning. I see that you are in Alberta does Calgary have any public daycares. In Ontario DS is in a public daycare and thus is inspected by the province but it is an organization of home daycares.
 

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moondiapers, I think you make a good point about what "family life" looks like in a home daycare. I think it just comes down to personal preference. I don't mean this to sound snarky, honestly, but a provider's need to go to the post office or wherever really has nothing to do with what I want for my child, kwim? He has plenty of time to get dragged around on errands with me on the weekend. I do look for his time in care to be, well, I guess "enriching" is the word I'm looking for. I want him to be read to, to sing songs and dance, to play on the playground, and to genuinely have the complete supervision and attention of at least one adult at all times. OF COURSE this is unrealistic and impossible to expect of a single adult in a home care setting. Since those are my expectations, it is better that I choose a center.<br><br>
Also I do think there are WONDERFUL home child care providers, I know one locally who is fantastic, charges about 150% of the local going rate, and has a 2-year waiting list. I know another woman who nannied for us in the past, currently works at DS' preschool, and has mentioned she may open her own home daycare. If she is open when we have an infant needing care we'd go with her in a second.<br><br>
I think home providers in this league are hard to find though <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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Home providers in that league are hard to find - but it's definitely possible! I know that I had one. But alas, she had to (as she said) "Get a real job" for benefits and went back to teaching. She still sees my kids once a week because of the bond they made.<br><br>
There were times (after we'd established a relationship) when we would give her a carseat and let her take the kids wherever. She was usually done at 4:30, but if she needed to be somewhere late in the day we'd pick the kids up early.<br><br>
There is less flexibility for the mom in a home care environment. If the provider is sick there is no backup. That happens - but most people who are around kids all day have very good immune systems! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> There are obviously pros and cons both ways, and so many variables that there is no one good answer. But yes, AP home childcare (that meets state requirements for numbers) does indeed exist. I saw it once!<br><br>
When you have great childcare you are flexible about stuff like schedules and the need to drag kids along on errands sometimes, KWIM?
 

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Hi Nina!<br><br>
I'm not sure how to reply...<br><br>
I found a very small, home care place. They admit a max of 12 kids, there are usually 10..sometimes as few as 5 on any given day.<br><br>
It truly feels like home and its LOVE LOVE LOVE showers on all children.<br><br>
But.....<br><br>
CIO...I don't know what constitutes CIO...how you define it. If an hour of crying is CIO..you CAN find small care that does NOT DO THIS.<br>
But...<br><br>
if crying for 15 minutes while the care provider attends to the other babies...that might be alot harder.<br><br>
But...<br><br>
at one year of age...this will be less of an issue. As child becomes toddler she is most likely to be napping at the same time everyday..with other kids in the room...it becomes so much of a routine...they just don't even fight going down...and they all tend to wake together. There is somthing "magical" about being in the company of peers who are doing the same activities.<br><br>
I would prioritize the LOVE part. You'll know when you find a LOVING place. it will be obvious in how the careproviders interact with you and the children.<br><br>
GFY...prioritizing the LOVE....
 

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Have you tried asking in your tribal area?<br><br>
I have a friend from my church who watches DS and is totally AP. She also has 3 of her own children under 4 - so it didn't bother me when DH told me the baby was in the swing crying when he picked him up one day - he had spit up all over his clothes, the dcp's clothes, the floor etc and she was in the middle of cleaning everything up. On the other hand it makes me feel great when she tells me how she rocked him to sleep. (He actually will put himself to sleep - so I think it is really sweet that she takes the time to rock him). She also runs erands, goes to playgroup etc with him - but I don't mind and she always carries her cell and tells me where she is going....also she wears him a lot - which I love!<br><br>
I think you should hold out until you find a place you feel comfortable with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I went through the community day home list today and sifted through the thirteen pages of mostly outdated listings and emailed every single viable one within 5km of my work (25 emails.)<br><br>
I've gotten a few replies back and lined up some interviews. I had one today that could have been better. The provider seemed like a nice person but pretty tired and fed up. The house was a mess and not too babyproof, her first aid and police check were out of date, and she admitted to feeding the kids Kraft Dinner and hot dogs once a week. Also while I was there the kids got into a box of Froot Loops, which she took away but still...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bigeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bigeyes">. I'm certainly not going to judge her since I'd be a complete mess with 4 kids under 5, but when I'm <i>paying</i> someone to take care of my kid, I think I can do better.<br><br>
I have two more interviews next week and one the following week with the suspected-CIO lady. That's a good point about 1yo naturally falling into a schedule. She seemed really confident it would work over the phone. I think I will make up my mind by seeing how she interacts with the kids when I go for the interview. If she is truly a gentle person I know my DD will be treated fine, and DD is going to cry on the first day or two no matter what, even though I'm going to do my best to transition her well.<br><br>
My two interviews next week at least have their police and first aid stuff up to date, so hopefully they're a bit more engaged. One is a SAHM watching 4 kids under 6 and she had a little blurb up about engaging the kids in her passions for music and yoga - I hope it works out. The other one would have only Libby and her DS but she isn't as experienced and she's a little out of the way.<br><br>
Wish me luck!
 

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I know you're looking for a home daycare, but you should check out the resources on the NAYEC site (national association for the education of young children). The have a good list of things to look for. <a href="http://www.rightchoiceforkids.org/docs/FamilyGuide.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.rightchoiceforkids.org/docs/FamilyGuide.pdf</a><br><br>
One thing that often concerns me about home daycares is the caregiver-child ratio. 6 kids under 5 for one person is a LOT, especially when one is a toddler. I'd prefer to see a 1-4 or 1-3 ratio for a 12 month old.<br><a href="http://www.naeyc.org/academy/criteria/teacher_child_ratios.html" target="_blank">http://www.naeyc.org/academy/criteri...ld_ratios.html</a><br><br>
They also have a link where you can look for an accredited center, just to see if there's some place near you that you haven't rule out.<br><a href="http://www.naeyc.org/academy/search/" target="_blank">http://www.naeyc.org/academy/search/</a>
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>LynnS6</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9026132"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I know you're looking for a home daycare, but you should check out the resources on the NAYEC site (national association for the education of young children). The have a good list of things to look for. <a href="http://www.rightchoiceforkids.org/docs/FamilyGuide.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.rightchoiceforkids.org/docs/FamilyGuide.pdf</a><br><br>
One thing that often concerns me about home daycares is the caregiver-child ratio. 6 kids under 5 for one person is a LOT, especially when one is a toddler. I'd prefer to see a 1-4 or 1-3 ratio for a 12 month old.<br><a href="http://www.naeyc.org/academy/criteria/teacher_child_ratios.html" target="_blank">http://www.naeyc.org/academy/criteri...ld_ratios.html</a><br><br>
They also have a link where you can look for an accredited center, just to see if there's some place near you that you haven't rule out.<br><a href="http://www.naeyc.org/academy/search/" target="_blank">http://www.naeyc.org/academy/search/</a></div>
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they also accredit homes
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks, I skimmed it and will read it more thoroughly later. Mostly in interviews I'm questioning them about whether they have 1st aid certification, what they do during the day, how they handle sleep and discipline, and policies on TV and nutrition.<br><br>
There is an agency that monitors and accredits homes where I live as well, but getting into an approved one is pretty much a pipe dream. I think I'd be happy with first aid certification and good references.<br><br>
I'm not sure what to do about ratios. Most of these places seem to have 3 or 4 kids already.
 

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I have a recommendation if you don't mind....<br><br>
If you are interviewing a HOME provider during business hours, be suspicous if the house is perfect. I'd much rather see toys and/arts and craft supplies out than a spotless house during business hours (unless it's naptime). I know a provider that is so anal about tidiness that the kids are only alowed one toy each at a time, it's VERY restricted. The house should be clean and tidy at drop off in the morning (IF your child is one of the first dropped off each day) and decidely less tidy if you drop in in the middle of the day or pick up early.<br><br>
For example, I leave the breakfast and lunch dishes until naptime. Until then the dishwasher is usually open with dirty dishes in it and there are a few in the sink (I have the kitchen gated off). My house is safe, and mostly clean, but it's more important to spend time with the kids. All of this should vary depending on how many kids she has in care.<br><br>
I guess my point is, that perfect housekeeping doesn't always mean good daycare.<br>
edited to add: most providers do put in extra effort before an interview, but there should still be tell tale signs of the activities of children, use your intuition....does this house look like lots of children are here, is it appropriate for the time of day you are visiting etc?
 
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