[Overproducktion]

I just went to my first love and logic class tonight at my kids' school. But the process seems some what harsh

: . Has any body ever heard of love and logic? Can I get people's opinions on this? An example of the love and logic process is this:

I tell the kids to grab their jackets before school (only once) If they do not grab their jackets then they go to school with out a coat--no matter how cold it is.

I tell the kids to come and eat dinner. If they do not then they get no other food for the rest of the night. But I am to feed them a large a breakfast the next day.

I DO need help with discipline for my children, but I am not sure that this will work because it seems so harsh. I DO see some good that could come from this--but I would be picking and choosing. Any opinions would be helpful!

 

[Rollermommy]

How is it "loving" or "logical" to let your child go hungry or spend the day freezing

: I have never heard of these classes before, so i hate to knock something i know nothing about but....
I am a total believer in asking once then following through with natural consequences BUT, the consequences have to be reasonable. I know if my mother sent me to school without my jacket while it was freezing outside, sure i may not have to be asked twice again, but i would not feel very loved

 

[NoraJadesMama]

ITA. I just finished the book. I ordered it because I liked the title but hadn't heard anyone talk about it. Their ideas of consequences are often humiliating, harmful, or terrifying.

And their idea of toddler discipine is "Basic German Sheppard"--by 2 yrs old children should be taught to "obey" when told to "sit, come, no and stay."

It's strange because when they discuss respect and empathy they seem to have the right ideas, and yet so many of their examples are the antithesis of respectful empathic discipline.

: The parent often sets the child up to fail and suffer a harsh consequence to teach them a lesson they won't forget. In a way it was useful because it helped me clarify my own ideas of what it means to treat my children compassionately as I work with them around their behavior and choices.

 

[Juliacat]

My friend's parents are thinking of using this, and I thought it sounded cruel when my friend explained it to me. It really sounds just like regular punishment, only instead of punishing with spanking or timeout, you're punishing with hunger or hot bare feet on pavement or something even worse. I don't like it at all!

 

[ShariMama]

I have to disagree with many of the previous posts. I recently discovered that two of my friends are facilitators for the class, and I just completed my fourth class in the six class series. So, I'm relatively familiar with the philosophies of Love and Logic.
Anyhow, the premise is that the point of parenting is to raise responsible adults that will be able to make sane decisions for themselves. The best way to do this, they say, is to start young when the consequences of poor decisions are minor. So, yes, in the jacket example, the ultimate end result may be letting a child be cold for a day. However, this is only advocated after attempting many other things and only if the child is in no danger as a result of the action. Most importantly, it's only advocated if the parents are comfortable with it. The focus that I've seen is in sharing control instead of insisting on maintaining all of it, and in giving children choices (all of which are ok with the parent) and in doing what is right for parent and child.
I've found it to be a very sane philosophy which has presented solutions to many problems we have faced (both with toddlers and teenagers). I should also mention that one of the most basic ideas is that as soon as you loose your temper, the kids have "won" (my word, not theirs) and there's no sense in continuing the argument so let it go and figure out how to handle it next time.
No parenting advice should be taken lock-stock-and-barrel. You've got to sort things by what makes sense for you and your kids.
There are a bunch of cheesy one-liners though that can be hard to get past.

 

[~Megan~]

opps ended up in the wrong thread

 

[SmilesALot]

Love and Logic was suggested to us by my dh's coworker who is mom to triplets(They also gifted us Babywise!! :-((( ).

With Babywise, i got to read it only after my ds was 8 weeks old and felt that I had done it all wrong according to the book. I parented my ds by my maternal instincts (to feed on demand, to carry him around etc,.) and put aside the book since I could not go back in time and do anything. I did not have any strong feelings towards the book thinking that there could be people for whom this may work but it was not for me. Only later when I joined Mothering forum, did I find out how much hated Ezzo is here! Good that I did not find his advice any useful.

I opened Love and Logic to read (i did not have any bias towards this book) since its subtitle was how to raise your kids to be responsible adults. Isn't that what all parents want to do for their children?

One of the chapters i happened to hit upon was the German Sheperd chapter which was mentioned by another poster and that totally threw me off!! Treating my kids like dogs that need to be trained! Sorry, not my choice!! So I did not take all the advice there too earnestly unless it felt right to my heart.

About teaching consequences, i do agree that you can let your child make some minor mistakes so that they learn what the consequences are. In case of the jacket situation, if the child is a toddler, i would let him get in the car without the jacket but I would have one with me to give him the chance to change his mind when he really realises that he feels cold once he steps outdoors. This way I am not thrusting it against his will but if he feels cold he has a choice and will not freeze.
ABout food, with a 3 year old ds, i do not let him go without eating anything becoz this sets him up for MAJOR meltdown at bedtime. So i give him a couple of choices or distract him and feed him something (atleast a glass of milk or some fruits). So far, he has been eating when he is hungry and does not starve himself.

So I feel consequences could work as long as it is not too harsh and the child has a choice when he realises he has made a wrong judgement. I donno what things I am going to face when my kids are teenagers, but I will take it day by day!!

Peace & Love!

 

[pinkmommy]

I haven't read "Love and Logic" but have read "Love and Logic Magic For Early Childhood." I am glad I read it, as it did give me some helpful tools, but there were a few things about it that I did not like. I don't know how different it is from "Love and Logic."

It did not say to tell kids to grab jackets -- leaving for school. Rather, it really encouraged to give choices. It's been a while since I've read the book, but I think the book focused on two "equal" choices: Do you want to wear your red jacket or your blue jacket? Do you want to get dressed now or in five minutes?

I do like the way the book explained how empowering choices are to a young child. I have to say that when I do consistently give DS a lot of choices, I can really see the difference it makes.

I can't remember the author's view -- but I do think the choices should be equal and not a good choice verses a bad choice. Sometimes I am guilty of doing that and am trying to catch myself.

I do remember the thing I did not like about the book was that it may encourage use or over use of time-outs.

I was ok with some of the consequences, such as my child going out without a jacket. However, we don't live in a climate that is all that cold. I would certainly not allow a consequence that would put my child at risk physically or emotionally.

Personally, I don't think there is any one "magic" book or way or discipline and any book that touts itself as THE solution already has a flaw. I am finding that it is all a process for me -- learning what works for what child that fits in my comfort zone.