Marriage between a Catholic and a Mormon

ReadingMama · Dec 1, 2010

My BIL is Catholic and is in love with his Mormon girlfriend. They are in their early 30s. GF really wants to get married and start a family. She insists that any children they have will be raised in her church. BIL is open to this, but concerned that there are things he can't know as an "outsider". He's not sure he's comfortable with his future kids being taught things that are to be kept from him. My husband's family is fine with the idea of an interfaith marriage, but not sure about their grandkids being raised in a faith they don't know much about. GF's family is strongly encouraging her to find a nice Mormon guy to marry. <img alt="wink1.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="width:15px;height:15px;">
 
Is the difference in faith an insurmountable thing for them? What are the GF's "eternal consequences" if she doesn't marry another Mormon? How do Mormon families tend to react when someone chooses to marry outside the faith?

Bluegoat · Dec 1, 2010

I think this would be a difficult combination.
 
It sounds like the BIL is not terribly serious about Catholisism. He should know though that from a Catholic POV, unless he gets a dispensation, his marriage in a Mormon church would be considered invalid.
 
I don't know quite what the Mormon view on this would be, but I do know that in Mormonism the husband has a special priestly function in the family, and I wonder if it would be hard for his family without anyone to play that role.
 
I can't help but think that for this and other reasons he would be under constant pressure to convert.

ReadingMama · Dec 1, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Bluegoat <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282732/marriage-between-a-catholic-and-a-mormon#post_16084160"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> I think this would be a difficult combination.
 
It sounds like the BIL is not terribly serious about Catholisism. He should know though that from a Catholic POV, unless he gets a dispensation, his marriage in a Mormon church would be considered invalid.
 
I don't know quite what the Mormon view on this would be, but I do know that in Mormonism the husband has a special priestly function in the family, and I wonder if it would be hard for his family without anyone to play that role.
 
I can't help but think that for this and other reasons he would be under constant pressure to convert.
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BIL is serious about his Catholicism, but he doesn't think that Catholicism is the only way to Heaven. I don't think he's really looked into the religious differences as they would relate to his future kids though. You make a great point about where they would be married. He didn't mention anything about that. All he said was that they couldn't have a "temple marriage." I didn't know the Catholic Church would consider it invalid--I guess because marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic Church? Is it considered valid in a Methodist/Baptist/Lutheran church?
 
I think you're right about the pressure to convert. I don't know if this is correct (I'm hoping someone in the know will clarify it for me), but I read somewhere that she'd have to be married to a Mormon to achieve the highest level of Heaven according to her faith. If that's true, it makes sense that she'd want him to convert. And that her family would also want that. But I don't think he will.

Bluegoat · Dec 1, 2010

According to the Catholic Church, there are sacramental and natural marriages. A Catholic marrying a Mormon would have a natural marriage. A marriage to another Catholic, or a Lutheran or whatever, would be sacramental. The key is that the person has to be baptized, and Catholics don't accept Mormon baptism.
 
But they also have regulations that say that Catholics must get married in the Catholic Church, unless they have permission to marry elsewhere. If a Catholic doesn't follow that rule, the marriage is not considered valid no matter who one marries. 
 
It is possible to get permission to marry in another church, but I don't know what criteria they use to determine who they will grant permission to. I know Catholics that have married in Protestant churches with permission, but not to Mormons. 
 
Also, since the Catholic Church normally ask that the Catholic do his or her best to make sure the children are raised Catholic, and the Mormons want the same agreement from the Mormon spouse, that could be a serious source of conflict. Unless they want to go into it without an agreement, which seems unwise, one will have to go against the teaching of his or her church, either openly breaking with it or doing so secretly.

JMJ · Dec 1, 2010

From a Catholic perspective, a marriage between a Catholic and a Mormon would be considered to be disparity of cult since Mormons are not considered to be baptized Christians. For your BIL, such a marriage is not impossible, just difficult. There would have to be a dispensation to marry someone who is not considered to have a valid baptism, and the wedding would have to take place in a Catholic Church before a Catholic priest or deacon, or there would need to be a dispensation. He would be encouraged to raise the children Catholic. In previous times, the non-Catholic spouse would have to sign a statement that the children would be raised Catholic, or they would not be allowed to be married, and if they went ahead, he would be excommunicated. This is no longer the case, but that doesn't mean that the Catholic church desires any less that the children be raised Catholic.
 
From an LDS perspective, there are 3 levels of heaven, and in order to reach the highest level of heaven, one must be married, and the marriage must be sealed in the temple "for time and eternity." Basically, for her, if they never get married in the temple (which can be done any time, including after death, though it it was performed after death, he would still need to accept it), she will never make it to the highest level of heaven. The other levels of heaven aren't that bad (the bottom level is similar to Earth), but I've never known a Mormon who wishes to settle for one of the lower levels of heaven. She would need to be hoping and waiting for him to convert so that they could have a temple marriage so that their family could be united forever, and she would lose him if he did not marry her in the temple. It's questionable if this could work out from an LDS perspective. He could theoretically practice his faith throughout his life and she hers, and somebody could perform an LDS baptism for him (against Catholic teaching) and a temple marriage for them after he dies, and then the Mormons could hope that they both eventually make it to the highest level of heaven, but that's not really a solution that makes Catholics or Mormons terribly comfortable.
 
On both sides, there's some difficulties with the role of spouses within marriage and plans on how to raise the children, but I would say those are less serious than the difficulties associated with the different understandings of marriage. Also, Catholics believe that marriage is for this life, and the relationship that we have in the next life will be perfect, but will be something other than marriage. Mormons believe that marriages that do not occur in the temple are for this life only, and it is questionable if there will be any relationship in the next life. Marriages that are blessed in the temple are for time and eternity, and through them, there is a potential for reaching the highest level of heaven and becoming like God, becoming the god of another world, creating spirit children to populate it. It is this understanding of God that is what keeps Mormons from being considered Christians according to the Catholic Church (though they consider themselves to be Christians), but this is what he would be expected to eventually take part in.
 
As far as his kids learning things that he can't know, I wouldn't consider the LDS beliefs to be as closed as most people think they are. The missionaries have an order that they like to talk about things in so that people can accept the more basic beliefs before they move on to the more complicated beliefs, but there is very little that people who are not LDS just cannot know. Most of that revolves around the temple ordinances. What happens in the temple is considered to be very sacred and is not shared with non-Mormons, and he would not be allowed to even enter the temple. His wife and children would not be allowed to describe certain things in the temple to him, but in general, the beliefs can be learned by non-Mormons. I spent an hour or 2 a day, 5 days a week for the better part of 2 years with a devout and educated LDS friend, mostly talking about faith to get a reasonable handle on many of the beliefs of the LDS, and I'm sure there is so much more I don't know.

fierrbugg · Dec 4, 2010

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<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by ReadingMama <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282732/marriage-between-a-catholic-and-a-mormon#post_16084908"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> I don't think he's really looked into the religious differences as they would relate to his future kids though. You make a great point about where they would be married. He didn't mention anything about that. 
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Ok, as the oldest of 5 kids who grew up half Mormon and half Nazarene, I might be able to touch this part. My parents were married in the temple - and about a year after I was born, my father who was a convert to begin with decided Momonism was NOT for him (in part because of the temple marriage ceremony). Keep in mind I grew up in a small town in the Midwest - so my experience and those of my siblings should be viewed from the slant of just general small town issues. Your bil and his fiance' will have to figure everything out from where the tithe goes to what to do for special occassions, etc. I remember waking up in the middle of the night and hearing my parents having screaming fights over religion. They finally agreed sometime in grade school to stop fighting about it because they were going to get a divorce if they continued. It sounds like your bil has decided where the kids are going - we did every other Sunday, so it was quite the education. And we were allowed to go to other churches with our friends - Apostolic, Church of Christ, etc. There were significant theological differences between the 2 religions (the concept of the Trinity being a big one) and it got confusing every once in a while (Ok, are we in the Nephi church or Abraham church this week?).
 
It seemed like there was a HUGE tug of war between the two churches we attended regularly . . . for us kids. My maternal grandparents literally built the Mormon church building in the town where I grew up - so that might have something to do with it? *ahem* Some of the things that we saw growing up: the people in my Dad's church while sweet to my mom to her face were always trying to do sneaky things like set my dad up with "good Christian women." I remember one of the Mormon priesthood holders telling my mom that if she wanted to leave my dad, they (the church) would help move us and with providing for her and the kids. One of my sister's Mormon teachers told her outright in front of her Sunday school class that my dad was going to hell (a little traumatic for a 12 year old - and oddly ironic since Mormons don't really believe in hell). Because my parents had decided early on that we kids could decide where we wanted to go after age 18, we were not baptized in the Mormon church @ age 8 like our peers. That freaked everyone out, really. We were not allowed to go on temple trips which we didn't really care that much about - but one Bishop told my sister that they would hurry up and baptize her so she could go on the trip the following week and if memory serves, you can't just do that - there's a process leading up to it (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). When the visiting teachers would come, we would scatter and leave my mom alone with them. Now, I did LOVE Mormon girls camp and the dances were fun. I loved my youth pastor @ my dad's church. My best friends growing up were all Mormon and I still love and talk to many of the girls I grew up with on both sides. In fact, my Mormon girls' leader came out about 10 years ago - and she's still Mormon actually. I love her - always have - but when I told her I knew, she felt the need to tell me that she hadn't been back then and hadn't had any "inappropriate thoughts" during that time - which honestly hadn't even crossed my mind to care about. I just wanted her to know that she didn't have to be anything but herself with me. But again, maybe that initial reaction from her has more to do with the people in my hometown more than anything?
 
Despite certain people trying to break my parents up for most of my life, they did have couple friends from both sides of the fence who loved them and did life with them despite the Mormon/Nazarene thing. All in all it was an interesting upbringing - and I have met a few people in recent years who were also half Mormon/half Christian and had similar experiences, sadly. 
 
I think that scripture about being equally yoked has such wisdom. My parents didn't go into it thinking that they were going to end up with two different religions, but they made the best of it after it happened. So, the results? Well, not one of my siblings or I chose to be Mormon. My two sisters are currently attending a Nazarene church where they on the West Coast. Dh and I attend a non-denominational evangelical church - but I spent ages 18-30 not really attending church at all - and honestly all of my siblings stopped at age 18 for various time limits too. My 2 brothers don't attend church at all, but do study the Bible - so for me it's a small victory. My mom hasn't attended church since the family moved to AZ in 1999, although she does have a visiting teacher come out once in a while. I think her friends back home had something to do with that? My dad has become very confused about religion recently - I think his latest thing is hasidic judaism? So that's my experience with growing up with differing religions - take it however you will. I'm not trying to say anything about well any religion - so please don't take this as a criticism as any religion. In my experience people are flawed beings and I think factions in both churches made it their business to do things with my family that weren't their business - small towns can be like that. But, all in all, we are a very tight-knit family still because we are all we've had to depend on, really. So, that's my experience and $.02 . . .

candipooh · Dec 4, 2010

Fierrbugg that was a wonderful post.
 
I grew up Mormon and married a non-Mormon. I never ever pushed the issue with him and was happy for who he was. It was hard to be active by myself after awhile I only went every once in awhile. My kids were are "blessed" in the church but have not been baptized (usually happens at 8 years old). My husband actually did get baptized a few year ago but was never active. I am now what they call a "Jack Mormon". I love the church but don't really follow all its teachings.
 
 
Now my brother and sister-in-law are having some trouble with them being both different religions. My brother was no longer Mormon when they met and married. She wasn't either. But years later she got back into the church and he did not. He is not apart of any religion so there is no fight of "mom's or dad's". But the stress on them is pretty sad.
 
My point with telling both of these situations is ....it all depends on the people. Although it was a bit hard because my hubby didn't believe the way I did there was no bitter feelings and pushing. With SIL and BIL there IS pushing and bitter feelings and fights.

anj_rn · Dec 7, 2010

I could not ever agree to raise my children in any faith except my own. Because of that, I would never agree to marry someone who had differnet religious beliefs from my own (DH and I met at church, so not a problem). I think the other thing to consider is how your faith dictates your other actions, titheing, charity work, family discipline, sexual relations. The foundations of you religious beliefs can influence much of your everyday life, so there is more to consider than what church your children will attend.

lilmom · Dec 8, 2010

Well, I'm neither Catholic nor Morman, but I'm going to address this anyway. Marriage is hard. Marriage is hard even when 2 people are blissfully in love and of the same religion. Personally, I would never recommend to anyone to marry someone of a different faith, ever. I just think you are stacking the cards against yourself. And bringing kids into that seems unfair to them. This is my personal opinion and I know others will disagree. But I just think it would be better for the GF and BIL to move on, because it may not be insurmountable, but it will be difficult, and it seems like they would be settling in a way, if their respective faiths mean a great deal to them.

lilyka · Dec 16, 2010

to be honest....it sounds like a train wreck to me. If they are both serious about their faith it seems odd that they would go into this willingly. i struggle with the reality of my children's father having a different faith for us (we are divorced), and the battle that is being waged for their hearts and minds. I can't imagine going into marriage thinking this would at all work itself out. When you look out on the horizon really really huge things can look as tiny as an ant. It is easy to see all the ways you can tackle these giants when you are all gooey and in love and it is all far far away on the horizon. But the reality is nothing ever works out as smoothly as you plan and this is something, no matter how small and manageable it looks now, that could turn out to be a really huge nasty thing to have to struggle through when you get right up close and personal with it.

ancoda · Dec 18, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by ReadingMama <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282732/marriage-between-a-catholic-and-a-mormon#post_16083866"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> My BIL is Catholic and is in love with his Mormon girlfriend. They are in their early 30s. GF really wants to get married and start a family. She insists that any children they have will be raised in her church. BIL is open to this, but concerned that there are things he can't know as an "outsider". He's not sure he's comfortable with his future kids being taught things that are to be kept from him. My husband's family is fine with the idea of an interfaith marriage, but not sure about their grandkids being raised in a faith they don't know much about. GF's family is strongly encouraging her to find a nice Mormon guy to marry. <img alt="wink1.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="width:15px;height:15px;">
 
Is the difference in faith an insurmountable thing for them? What are the GF's "eternal consequences" if she doesn't marry another Mormon? How do Mormon families tend to react when someone chooses to marry outside the faith?
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Interfaith marriage is usually a bit challenging no matter what the faiths involved are.
 
As for "things he can't know as an outsider" I am guessing you are meaning things taught in the temple. The teachings in the temple are taught using symbols and the symbols are kept sacred. However, virtually all of the doctrine and knowledge learned in the temple is also taught outside the temple. Quite a bit of it is recorded in the book of Moses for example.
 
In most of the congregations that I have been in there has been at least one family of mixed faith. It is accepted for the most part.

EFmom · Dec 27, 2010

If I were him, I would investigate the LDS church very, very thoroughly before marrying the woman. I would seek out sources including not just the official LDS sponsored ones, but also including those from people who have left that church. In that way, he will get a complete picture of what he would be signing on for. There are many things that the LDS consider "sacred," but sacred means a different thing than it does to most other denominations, meaning that they will not disclose these things to investigators.

treeoflife3 · Dec 27, 2010

My husband and I are of different faiths but not nearly so extreme as a catholic and a mormon. I'm non religious (or maybe agnostic? I don't care and have no desire to delve more deeply) and my husband waivers between being closer to a conservative Christian to being unsure if he is Christian at all. I believe he does still very much so believe in god though.
 
We've worked this out by attending a UU church. Both of our beliefs (or non beliefs) are respected and we both can get great things each week because sometimes it is about more Christian specific things and sometimes it is just about being a generally good person.
 
I personally however couldn't raise my children with someone who was active in the Catholic church. It is far too extreme from my own beliefs (or lack there of) and would go against how I want to raise my kids. I can compromise to an extent (I never wanted to do church at all, but UU is acceptable to me because the teachings are more general and something all religions can generally agree on) but baptism and communion and being taught that the bible is absolutely right doesn't sit well with me at all.
 
In the same thread, I feel just as strongly about mormonism except some of my opinions could be offensive to some so I won't share. Mormonism however is too extreme and not something I am comfortable with raising my children in so I couldn't marry someone who felt very strongly about their mormon background. They can be a great person who I otherwise really love but it would be too big of a difference for me.
 
I think parents who both feel strongly about their separate religions, and ones that can be pretty demanding of its members like catholicism and mormonism really need to be sure they are 100% on the same page and fully know exactly how it will pan out for the 18 years a child is in their care. Perhaps he really can live with his kids doing the mormon thing while he does his own thing, but he definitely needs to be fully informed before committing to something as serious as marriage. I think it would be important that he gets a pretty in depth crash course of every stage of mormonism for a child growing up in the church. Can he live with not baptising his child as an infant the way catholics do? Can he live with his child being baptised mormon?
 
I think it is also equally important that SHE face the fact that even if the child is fully raised mormon.... the child still might turn 18 and decide it just isn't for them. This is true for any child raised in any religion, but I think having a father who is definitely catholic will make it easier for the child to question their mother's religion. The child in question could start questioning long before 18 and well and both parents need to be prepared for how to handle that to create a united front. Will dad stand firm that the child is raised mormon and can't make a different choice til 18? Will mom allow the child to explore his father's religion before turning 18?
 
Short term, I don't know that the difference in religion could be a big deal as both religions have similar beliefs. Long term however, they need to have quite a few in depth discussions and really plan for all the what ifs especially where future children are concerned.

A&A · Dec 27, 2010

I was raised Mormon, and the pressure from my parents to marry someone Mormon was tremendous. Mormons teach that you can't get to the highest levels of heaven without an "eternal" (read: also faithful Mormon) spouse. Dh is not religious, and we ended up eloping because I was so scared of my parents. 
 
For dh and me, it worked out, because I stopped being Mormon. (Dh didn't pressure me at all, it was something I decided on my own.) But I can see that if I had continued being Mormon, and had raised our children that way, it would have caused a rift between dh and me.
 
Catholics and Mormons do share some similarities--they celebrate the same religious holidays, have a strong belief in family and (generally) lots of children, etc. 
 
Ultimately, your BIL and his gf are adults, and can make their own choices, as I'm sure you already know.

A&A · Dec 27, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by ReadingMama <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282732/marriage-between-a-catholic-and-a-mormon#post_16084908"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> <div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by Bluegoat <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282732/marriage-between-a-catholic-and-a-mormon#post_16084160"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> I think this would be a difficult combination.
 
It sounds like the BIL is not terribly serious about Catholisism. He should know though that from a Catholic POV, unless he gets a dispensation, his marriage in a Mormon church would be considered invalid.
 
I don't know quite what the Mormon view on this would be, but I do know that in Mormonism the husband has a special priestly function in the family, and I wonder if it would be hard for his family without anyone to play that role.
 
I can't help but think that for this and other reasons he would be under constant pressure to convert.
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BIL is serious about his Catholicism, but he doesn't think that Catholicism is the only way to Heaven. I don't think he's really looked into the religious differences as they would relate to his future kids though. You make a great point about where they would be married. He didn't mention anything about that. All he said was that they couldn't have a "temple marriage." I didn't know the Catholic Church would consider it invalid--I guess because marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic Church? Is it considered valid in a Methodist/Baptist/Lutheran church?
 
I think you're right about the pressure to convert. I don't know if this is correct (I'm hoping someone in the know will clarify it for me), but I read somewhere that she'd have to be married to a Mormon to achieve the highest level of Heaven according to her faith. If that's true, it makes sense that she'd want him to convert. And that her family would also want that. But I don't think he will.
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They could still get married in a Mormon church (which usually ends up being in essentially the church gym...where basketball is played...not very romantic). But they couldn't get married in the temple.

candipooh · Dec 29, 2010

They could still get married in a Mormon church (which usually ends up being in essentially the church gym...where basketball is played...not very romantic). But they couldn't get married in the temple.

That is where I got married. It was fine actually. It looked great (as long as you didn't look up:lol)

lilyka · Dec 29, 2010

I got married in a gymacafatorium. I have to say my bridesmaids and I did an excellent job of making it beautiful. Huge vining house plants and tulle hung down from the hoops (you couldn't see anything of the hoops or backboards by the time we were done), the bleachers became a sea of tea lights, and in the dimmed lights you couldn't see any food on the cafeteria chairs we were using. The key was a lot of greenery, tulle, ribbon, and soft lighting

umsami · Jan 1, 2011

My guess is that both his priest and her bishop could refer them to interfaith couples within their parish/Ward. I think talking to other couples who are trying to make an Interfaith marriage might be a good idea for both of them if they are seriously consider marriage. I believe that both faiths also require some form of premarital counseling, which might be beneficial as well.

Lucy Alden · Jan 1, 2011

I know this is so far away but, your BIL should know that if his child is a mormon and marries a mormon he will not be able to attend the wedding in the temple. My BFF from high school is a mormon (I am a conservative Christian) and there were some in her family who were greatly hurt because they could not attend.
 
Personally I would never marry someone who had a different faith than me. However I do not consider my faith something that I do. It is the very essence of who I am.

love4bob · Jan 1, 2011

I wouldn't marry someone of a different faith than I am either, especially of such a different faith like Mormonism. I am Catholic, but wasn't when DH and I married. We were both protestant Christians, and we were married in my moms church. When my husband joined the army and went to basic training he found the Catholic faith, and went to mass every week. He was confirmed at basic training too. He told me in letters that he wanted to convert. At first I thought he was crazy. I didn't know anything about the faith. I gave it a chance though and decided to convert for our children. I did not want them raised with two different faiths in the house. I wanted them to be strong in their faith and values, and that can really only be done(I think at least) with a unified front. It turns out that I LOVE the Catholic faith and I'm more enthusiastic and practicing than DH!
 
Mormonism and Catholicism are too different to keep a unified front. They may have similar values, but the core tenants of their faith are too different IMO.

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