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Discussion Starter #1
I am very upset by this and my daughter is also being affected.<br>
My daughter has been taking skating lessons since Sept. She loves to skate.<br>
Her class is 30 minutes and for the past 2 mos or so after the lessons the kids play together on the ice with dolls. Bringing them along on the ice for skating adventure.<br>
They are skating along with the dolls in their hands. they are not sitting on the ice playing dolls.<br>
My daughter has advanced in her lessons quickly but at no time have I given any teacher the impression that she is being trained for any future in skating.<br>
this is just something she likes and wants to learn to do. I actually very clearly stated this to her teacher when she and her friend started taking semi private lessons simply b/c the the level where they were headed was not offered during the daytime hours.<br>
So today after lessons the girls practiced a bit but then they came out with the teacher who told them if they were going to be on the ice with dolls they had to wear their helmets.<br>
Not wearing helmet is a privilege and the girls feel very accomplished when they re not wearing them.<br>
his rule was arbitrary b/c HE wanted to punish them into practicing, knowing that the helmet rule would put a damper on the fun.<br>
He kept saying, "If you want to be serious skaters...."<br>
This was not a "No toys on the ice rule" which I could accept if it were true.<br>
I went in to talk to him and asked if it was safety rule b/c the girls are bent over pretending the dolls are skating. He said, "No. but if they want to be serious skaters they need to be practicing. They can have fun but the skating should be fun not the dolls"<br>
Oh I didn't know he was the fun police.<br>
So I reminded him that we were not in this to be serious skaters but rather my daughter likes the lessons and enjoys learning new moves but in no way do I want her "working hard at it" unless she chooses to.<br>
She is 7 by the way and to me if a kid wants to be serious about something GREAT! but my kid likes the joy of skating and I feel like he sucked the joy from it today as my daughter spent a great deal of time crying about not being able to skate with her doll unless she wore a helmet. She totally saw through the BS and kept asking why when it wasn't REALLY a rule.<br>
Why oh why can't kids just learn for the fun of it??? Why must they become athletes the second they show an interest in anything.<br>
I am so angry today!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">
 

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SHEESH. He is coming at it from his perspective and wanting them to be serious... but that is NOT the be all and end all. That's sending a very poor message, too, his suddenly inventing/enforcing this rule. Playing can be the pathway to really loving something and dedicating yourself to it when you are older. That is all kinds of too bad!
 

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This coach may not be a fit for your girls. Many coaches, in fact will not be a fit. People who excel at a physical activity and who go on to teach others to excel at that physical activity often expect that activity to be treated with a certain amount of respect. In his opinion playing with dolls on the ice disrespects skating. Skating with no helmet is a privilege he bestows on those who have the skills and who he feels properly respect the sport. So either the girls wear their helmets during doll time, or they get a different coach if you ask me. I don't think this is about training to be a competitive skater at all, but about taking this activity which is clearly very beloved by the coach seriously as an activity and not disrespecting it.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>hipumpkins</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15419816"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I feel like he sucked the joy from it today as my daughter spent a great deal of time crying about not being able to skate with her doll unless she wore a helmet.</div>
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Do you think that is a reasonable reaction to spend a "great deal of time crying" over wearing a helmet? Personally I find that to be an inappropriate overreaction that I wouldn't indulge it by working myself up over it. Part of life when you go activities is that the adult in charge gets to set up boundaries. The coach may not feel like supervising doll time and would like the security of the girls wearing helmets. Or, he may have wished he had stopped the activity some time ago and doesn't know how to now. At any rate, I don't think it does kids a service to send them the message that complying with the teacher's request is so spirit crushing that they have to cry about it for hours. I don't see that as an issue of being a super athlete or being groomed for greatness, but one of basic respect.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>rhiandmoi</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15420190"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">This coach may not be a fit for your girls. Many coaches, in fact will not be a fit. People who excel at a physical activity and who go on to teach others to excel at that physical activity often expect that activity to be treated with a certain amount of respect. <b>In his opinion playing with dolls on the ice disrespects skating.</b> Skating with no helmet is a privilege he bestows on those who have the skills and who he feels properly respect the sport. So either the girls wear their helmets during doll time, or they get a different coach if you ask me. I don't think this is about training to be a competitive skater at all, but about taking this <b>activity which is clearly very beloved by the coach</b> seriously as an activity and not disrespecting it.</div>
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I wan't able to make the same conclusions about that coach from the details provided. I think you are reading too much into the situation.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Roar</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421096"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><b>Do you think that is a reasonable reaction to spend a "great deal of time crying" over wearing a helmet?</b> Personally I find that to be an inappropriate overreaction that I wouldn't indulge it by working myself up over it. <b>Part of life when you go activities is that the adult in charge gets to set up boundaries.</b> The coach may not feel like supervising doll time and would like the security of the girls wearing helmets. Or, he may have wished he had stopped the activity some time ago and doesn't know how to now. At any rate, I don't think it does kids a service to send them the message that complying with the teacher's request is so spirit crushing that they have to cry about it for hours. I don't see that as an issue of being a super athlete or being groomed for greatness, but one of basic respect.</div>
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It is not about wearing a helmet, but about the greater injustice done by someone whom the child trusted. Some children are sensitive and care about justice and fairness and are affected greately when mistreated. There's nothing wrong with that.<br><br>
Part of life is also challenging boundaries set by those who are unfair or disrespectful.<br><br>
I'm with the OP--I don't get this mentality. Oh wait, I do get it. It is the mentality of narrow mindedness. It is also the mentality of those who think that sports are to be sufferred and not enjoyed.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>midnightwriter</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421214"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br>
It is not about wearing a helmet, but about the greater injustice done by someone whom the child trusted. Some children are sensitive and care about justice and fairness and are affected greately when mistreated. There's nothing wrong with that.</div>
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I personally have trouble classifying the requirement to wear a helmet as mistreatment. Is isn't like he hurled a racist insult or hit them. To classifying being told by a teacher to wear a helmet as a kind of "mistreatment" or "injustice" to me belittles the significance of those concepts.<br><br>
I think we all have to consider our long term goals. We recognized in our family it was vital that our child be able to participate in the community and to be able to learn from adults in a leadership role. That doesn't mean being accepting mistreatment. But, it does sometimes mean following rules and it means behaving in a way that is respectful of your teacher. If parents fan the flames I'm sure kids could see that as mistreatment. I don't think that really serves kids well though. I believe a better approach is to be low key and encourage kids to find a way to keep it in perspective learning to roll in life with sometimes a tiny bit of something being less than perfectly your way in the sea of a whole lot of being great. I believe being able to do so greatly improves the odds a person can grow up to be happy instead of a person who is an inch from a meltdown over minutia.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>midnightwriter</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421214"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It is also the mentality of those who think that sports are to be sufferred and not enjoyed.</div>
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I'm curious if you ever find boundaries at activities to be appropriate. Is it appropriate for the piano teacher to say the group can't bang out chopsticks after the lesson? Is it okay for the librarian to say no running in the library? If told so do you think it is appropriate for the child to feel all joy was sucked from the experience and they should cry for the rest of the day?
 

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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>midnightwriter</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421214"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I wan't able to make the same conclusions about that coach from the details provided. I think you are reading too much into the situation.<br><br><br><br>
It is not about wearing a helmet, but about the greater injustice done by someone whom the child trusted. Some children are sensitive and care about justice and fairness and are affected greately when mistreated. There's nothing wrong with that.<br><br>
Part of life is also challenging boundaries set by those who are unfair or disrespectful.<br><br>
I'm with the OP--I don't get this mentality. Oh wait, I do get it. It is the mentality of narrow mindedness. It is also the mentality of those who think that sports are to be sufferred and not enjoyed.</div>
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Either way, what I said stands. This coach is not a fit for these girls. He expects a certain standard of behavior that they don't want to be held to. Time to move on. I doubt this is the only coach in town, and the girls are not serious about skating anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Here's the problem, they are not under his supervision when they are playing. The class is OVER. The class is for 30 minutes AFTER the class the girls play. He deemed it his responsibility for not wearing the helmet and turned it into "because your advanced skaters" assuring us the mothers the girls were ready to be helmetless.. So if they are ready the helmets do not affect the ability to play with dolls.<br>
It is open skate time at the rink. Open to the public. During this time classes also go on.<br>
My daughter is highly sensitive and yes she could feel the injustice and the fact that he was trying to make them practice by manipulating the playtime.<br>
This is not about us not following the rules. We follow all the rules of the rink and even the class time. I do not think it is fair to make up a rule in order to make someone do as you wish b/c you see yourself as in charge.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Roar</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421096"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Do you think that is a reasonable reaction to spend a "great deal of time crying" over wearing a helmet? Personally I find that to be an inappropriate overreaction that I wouldn't indulge it by working myself up over it. Part of life when you go activities is that the adult in charge gets to set up boundaries. The coach may not feel like supervising doll time and would like the security of the girls wearing helmets. Or, he may have wished he had stopped the activity some time ago and doesn't know how to now. At any rate, I don't think it does kids a service to send them the message that complying with the teacher's request is so spirit crushing that they have to cry about it for hours. I don't see that as an issue of being a super athlete or being groomed for greatness, but one of basic respect.</div>
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I don't see where the OP is sending her kid any kind of message because she opts to post her venting here. She certainly didn't post anything that gave that impression.<br><br>
And I don't think it's an overreaction when something the girls were allowed to do for periods of time is suddenly and arbitrarily changed for no reason whatsoever. She's 7. She 1) clearly "gets" that there was no reason for it; and 2) precedent had been set that it was okay. If that were my kid, he would think that the coach didn't like him or was being mean to him specifically to have done something like that for no reason. I think spending time crying about that wouldn't be overreacting, either. It would hurt ME to think that someone "had it in for me" by arbitrarily taking away something I liked for no reason all of a sudden. They're still figuring all of this out.<br><br>
If the coach didn't know how to stop it, he could've handled it in countless other ways; but his statement to the OP sounds like he feels that they've moved up a notch in "seriousness" for the sport by taking the semi-private lessons and wants to push them--so he's revoking the playtime.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Roar</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421353"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think we all have to consider our long term goals. We recognized in our family it was vital that our child be able to participate in the community and to be able to learn from adults in a leadership role. That doesn't mean being accepting mistreatment. But, it does sometimes mean following rules and it means behaving in a way that is respectful of your teacher. If parents fan the flames I'm sure kids could see that as mistreatment. I don't think that really serves kids well though. I believe a better approach is to be low key and encourage kids to find a way to keep it in perspective learning to roll in life with sometimes a tiny bit of something being less than perfectly your way in the sea of a whole lot of being great. I believe being able to do so greatly improves the odds a person can grow up to be happy instead of a person who is an inch from a meltdown over minutia.</div>
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Again, I'm not seeing where the OP was "fanning" any flames with her kid. And honestly, having read multiple posts of hers, she is screamingly a parent that has her kids see the joy in things in general. Kids occasionally get upset.<br><br>
My goals include not having my kids fall prey to the whims of adults with power issues. They may occasionally be in a position to have to obey them temporarily, but they need to get out of that situation. I don't think it serves the kids well to think that just because someone's an adult, they can change the rules at any time "just because". I have no problem with rules. I don't even have a problem with rules I don't agree with as long as they're not harmful to my kids in some way, doesn't set a bad example for my kids, and the benefit of involvement outweighs what I don't like about them. But arbitrary rule-changing... sorry. Definitely not an example I want set for my kids. Not even because it will upset and confuse them, but because it's not the kind of person I want to have as a role model for my kids. And I have some say in that. There were more responsible and respectable ways he could've handled it.<br><br><br>
OP: I would look for a new coach. This one is obviously not "hearing" you about the fact that this is not Olympic training for your child. Maybe you could go back to him again and tell him that the moment this becomes work vs. fun for your kid, the lessons stop--and he's fast on that track. In a polite way, of course; but direct so that he understands.
 

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I want to post my thoughts, without creating an us-and-them mentality. I hope I succeed. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br><br>
My son gets very upset at certain things sometimes. He's on a soccer team, and this year we were away on the practice date that it turns out the kids all chose their jersey number. My son was so utterly upset that he did not get to pick a number. He cried and cried and I sat with him for a long time to help him find enough peace to go to bed.<br><br>
Now, I play soccer. I don't give a rat's behind what number is on my jersey, or what colour it is, or what position I play. I have fun and that's what I'm there to do.<br><br>
But that's me, not him. In that moment when he was upset, it would have shown no respect for his feelings had I shared how much my jersey does not matter to me. It wouldn't have helped him 'see' how 'irrational' he was being. (No more than if my husband told me HE didn't mind sand in our bed, what was I irritated for?) It might have made him think I do not care about his sadness, or that he should buck up and be like me.<br><br>
I am not avoiding teaching my child that the world can suck at times. I am giving him a soft safe place to be when he feels it is crappy, and showing him that his feelings matter. As an adult, he will be appreciated by friends and overs when he shows that same respec for their feelings. I homeschool my kids to give them a sense of how good treatment feels, how being respected feels, so when they are out in the world they can expect that same treatment and do not let their own needs go untended.<br><br>
This does not mean they are being raised to be whiny, needy and spolied. That is the negative view used by others when they disagree with a child's needs being met by those they trust.<br><br><br>
I completely understand why your daughter is upset. My son would be equally upset if his priviledges were suddenly revoked for behaviour he does not see as wrong. And I would have spoken to the teacher as well, as I have done in many cases for my kids. It has never ben to criticise them, but only to better communicate, to show my children how often misunderstanding or lack of information can muddy the waters of a good time. Most of the time the result is a better understanding of my children's needs on the part of the instructor, which they are happy to meet or not meet, or a better clarity for us on why the teacher runs things how they do, and in this case we may brainstorm other solutions, accept things as they are and stay, or thank them and seek out a teacher better suited to our needs.<br><br>
What great skills for life, no? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>hipumpkins</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421846"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Here's the problem, they are not under his supervision when they are playing. The class is OVER. The class is for 30 minutes AFTER the class the girls play. He deemed it his responsibility for not wearing the helmet and turned it into "because your advanced skaters" assuring us the mothers the girls were ready to be helmetless.. So if they are ready the helmets do not affect the ability to play with dolls.<br>
It is open skate time at the rink. Open to the public. During this time classes also go on.<br>
My daughter is highly sensitive and yes she could feel the injustice and the fact that he was trying to make them practice by manipulating the playtime.<br>
This is not about us not following the rules. We follow all the rules of the rink and even the class time. I do not think it is fair to make up a rule in order to make someone do as you wish b/c you see yourself as in charge.</div>
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So again. This coach is not a fit for you. Get a different coach if your daughter wants to continue skating. You are not going to logic him into being more what you want.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Roar I think you are misunderstanding the situation a bit as my husband did at first. The teacher (He is not their coach) is overstepping his bounds b/c he is telling them what to do when they are no longer in his class. they are just more little girls on the ice during public skate time. It is up to us the mothers to decide if we are getting our money's worth with the lessons VS how much the girls practice.<br>
Also my daughter did not cry "all day" she cried for for about 10-15 minutes off ice but that is significant amount of time when you get only get a certain amount of time for skating. It is open skate for 2 hours and the girls are in a class for 30 minutes. By significant I meant in terms of skating not a whole day.
 

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I don't get any impression that OP seeks to over-logic her child's teacher, only to hear from us what we think on this and share her frustrations at this crappy situation.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>rhiandmoi</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421867"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">So again. This coach is not a fit for you. Get a different coach if your daughter wants to continue skating. You are not going to logic him into being more what you want.</div>
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I don't know why you keep saying this. Is my post asking, "what should I do?" I have already written him an email b/c the lessons are paid for in advance. I can't just change teachers. There isn't some pool of them waiting for us.<br><br>
We paid for set of number of weeks. All was fine, I even told him before the semi private lessons started that we were not in this for coaching.<br><br><br>
I am here venting and lamenting that any sport my kids take somehow has to be taken seriously. Why can't they just have fun?
 

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Heatherdeg, thanks <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br>
and to all of you who can hear what I'm saying thank you! It's so frustrating.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>heatherdeg</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421858"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't see where the OP is sending her kid any kind of message because she opts to post her venting here. She certainly didn't post anything that gave that impression.</div>
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She posted that she questioned the coach and that she was very angry. Do you think her daughter is not capable of noticing her mom's feelings?<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>heatherdeg</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421858"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And I don't think it's an overreaction when something the girls were allowed to do for periods of time is suddenly and arbitrarily changed for no reason whatsoever.</div>
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Life is always changing. Say you've got a favorite restaurant and they no longer carry the favorite soup you always order. Is it appropriate to cry for a great deal of time and feel deep anger over that? Or, is it more appropriate to articulate your disappointment and move on and maybe try different soup or another restaurant. I don't think it helps kids to send the message that they can not weather disappointment or handle when things change.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>heatherdeg</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421858"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">If the coach didn't know how to stop it, he could've handled it in countless other ways; but his statement to the OP sounds like he feels that they've moved up a notch in "seriousness" for the sport by taking the semi-private lessons and wants to push them--so he's revoking the playtime.</div>
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And, again, it will be tough to have a good life if anytime somebody is less than perfect you are crushed. Not all adults are equally good at handling all aspects of working with kids. Sometimes you decide a person is not up to the task. Or, maybe you decide with a package deal, the quality of the skate instruction outweighs the rest. Again, it isn't like he called the kids names or hit them. He said they needed to wear helmets. That is hardly the apocalypse.<br><br>
And, yes, his goals may not be the same. I would consider from his perspective that he's dealing with a variety of parents with different goals. Normally when people pay quite a bit for lessons they do want more than playtime...otherwise they'd simply schedule playtime. If it is crushing to the girls to have to wear helmets while skating with their dolls then this is probably not the right arrangement for them.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>heatherdeg</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421858"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My goals include not having my kids fall prey to the whims of adults with power issues. .</div>
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I think overreacting to minor matters like adults requiring helmets could very effectively confuse children and make it unlikely for them to be able to actually recognize abuse of power when it occurs.
 

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I personally would have dismissed him telling them to wear a helmet if they were no longer in class. Or am I misreading somehow? If class was over, and it's just free play, what would give him authority to tell them to helmet up anyway? I would ask your daughter what she would like to do. If she would like to continue to go to class she'll have to have this teach since no others are available. If she doesn't want to go to class anymore, maybe you guys can just go to free play more often?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>WCM</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15421862"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">In that moment when he was upset, it would have shown no respect for his feelings had I shared how much my jersey does not matter to me.</div>
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I can't imagine anyone here is suggesting that parents ignore their kid's feelings or tell them that they are wrong. However, our responsibility are parents doesn't always end with acknowledging feelings and acknowledging feelings doesn't necessitate taking every slight as a reason to be angry or force kids to quit activities. Our job should also include helping kids learn to think about the perspective of other people in a situation. It is good to help kids develop some resilience that things can go wrong but we can still go on and make an experience a good one. We need to help them to learn to consider other possible reactions to situations. And, we need to help them as they learn to speak for themselves and make choices.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
His perspective was, Do as I say (even though they are not in class anymore) or I will tell what you can and can't do on the ice."<br>
He does not own the arena, he does not make the ice rules. The kids were OUT of class.<br>
He is upsetting to my Dd b/c he is an authority figure to her and it feels crappy to have someone manipulate you. I'm glad she wont accept it.<br>
And i am angry b/c at the start of lessons I (we actually b/c the other mom also is involved) told him that we are not looking for coaching, just lessons.<br><br>
this is not about wearing a helmet. He used that to manipulate them into doing what he thought they should be doing on THEIR own free time.<br>
I don;t know how you can't see that.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Also when I spoke to him my Dd was not with me. He was in the office. I told her that rule was probably b/c they were bent over and maybe that was safety issue so I said I would find out.<br>
He flat out said it was b/c he didn't want them playing that way if they are going to be serious skaters...but they aren't going to be!
 
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