[mamacitaLoca]

<p>DD and I have been battling with this power struggle when she started talking. She's 6 now, and she has two younger siblings. Our epic battles have continued. I try very hard not to spank her, but sometimes it happens. I've had trouble even deciding to post this on here, I've felt so terribly sick all day today because of what happened this morning. She was out of control crying and wouldn't listen to me, I was so frustrated and sick of the daily episodes. She was sitting on the floor in front of her dresser with the drawer open and  I just needed her attention so I grabbed her by her hair, (thinking for a split second that grabbing her is not as bad as slapping her, which is what I really wanted to do.) she pulled away from me and ended up with a scratch on the side of her neck from the corner of the dresser. She said it hurt, and I felt so terrible. I am so afraid of what people might say if they saw it, I even told her to just say she did it accidentally when she was playing outside. I feel terrible that I told her to lie about it, this guilt is killing me. My baby has a scratch on her and it is MY fault. I get very angry and I yell a lot, I feel like the worst mom. My husband tells me I need to take it easy and he's right, but how? How do I take it easy when these children are driving me crazy? Would medication help? Is this PPD? I just really needed to let this out, and hesitated even writing about it anonymously. I would like to ask that no one judges me, but who do I think I am that I deserve kindness?</p>

 

[oaktreemama]

<p>Oh Mama. It really sounds like maybe you all need a third party to intervene here. Is there someone IRL you can talk to-a family counselor perhaps?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Not sure of your religious persuasion but I know the Unitarian church near me has classes amd mediators on Gentle Discipline and advocates who help parents who are overwhelmed.</p>

 

[mamacitaLoca]

<p>Thanks, I feel better after thinking about it all day yesterday. I talked to my husband, he was very understanding, and we decided I should see my doctor and get some counseling. I can't let this happen again, my 6 year old will have tantrums, and so will her siblings. Its ME who needs to learn to deal with them.Thanks again.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm Christian by the way, but have not been to church for awhile, and I see how desperately I need to keep close to Jesus everyday.</p>

 

[frugalmum]

<p>I think you need to have an immediate hands off policy, meaning, when you start to feel angry with your daughter, you do not touch her.  Walk out of the room and lock yourself in the bathroom.  Leave the house even and walk up and down the street (I don't know if you have very little ones at home, a 6 yr old can be alone for 10-15 minutes).  Do anything but touch her.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Don't be mad at yourself, just don't do it again!</p>

 

[Dr.Worm]

<p>Don't beat yourself up.  You realize you have made a mistake.  I agree about walking away if you feel yourself getting angry.</p>

 

[mom2happy]

<p>I cant help you with how to fix your DD, but I can tell you that if a 6 yr old is out of control crying, there is NO way to get their attention. The fact that you were worried about getting her attention when she was in that state just shows how out of control you were.</p>
<p>I have a 7 yr old DD that regularly flips out about everything. I know how insanely maddening it can be. I am NOT judging or yelling at you, I swear!</p>
<p>Maintaining self control is the only way to show her how to act. Sure, I lose my cool every once in a while, but I know not to even attempt to deal with her when she is in that state.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>How do you expect her to ever learn how to control herself if you cant control yourself. You cant control her. You have to work with her and be the adult. Again, these are things I have to tell myself too. We all do. We are just their parents, the people who are helping them navigate their way through these hard years and feelings.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Move on, DONT do it again. Tell her that YOU misbehaved and acted in a way that you are ashamed.</p>
<p>6 year olds are very smart.</p>

 

[NellieKatz]

<p> </p>
<p>I totally agree. Job One is to sit her down and be honest. Something like: "I am so sorry I laid my hands on you the other day. You had something going on that was bothering you a lot; I could tell by your crying. I am sorry I pulled you and you got hurt. And I should not have told you to make up a story about it happening accidentally. I need to be honest, just like I teach you to be." Ask if you can give her a hug, and say "I will try my best to do better next time."</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Then, later, on your own, I would get REALLY introspective.....WHY did you "need" to get her attention so badly that day? What had she been crying about? Can you try and see it from her perspective? Maybe it wasn't all about you...maybe she was having a bad day. Why was she "out of control crying"? Could it be that understanding her and meeting her wherever she was at that moment might have helped to take down the intensity a bit? Look at ALL of this from the point of view of a small child who is pretty new to this world and who is looking to you for guidance. I think she will learn a lot if she sees that when you get upset, you say "whoops. I feel pretty upset right now. it's best if I go calm down (or whatever method you choose...deep breathing, whatever).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But look at yourself. WHY are you reacting to her so passionately. What do you need her to do? Why? Does it have anything to do with fear of failure. Or how you were brought up. Or whatever. I'd ask yourself lots of questions.....that is what I did, and once I started to see things from my son's point of view, things really changed. (I had been raised by emotional and violent parents)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Best of luck.</p>

 

[grassisgreener1334]

<p>It's important not to beat yourself up about it.  I know that's easier said than done, but feeling guilty won't help any.  Combatting feeling out of control is the most important thing...figure out what will help you when you start feeling that way.  Maybe it's deep breathing, maybe it's stepping outside for a moment or maybe it's counting to 10.  I know that when my son starts to engage in a power struggle with me, I have to remind myself that he will feed off my energy...that however I react will make him react the same way.  I consciously relax and talk to him in a calm voice.  If he doesn't respond to that then I wait until he's in a better space to listen.  The key is to step outside of the power struggle and come from a more receptive place. </p>

 

[dalia]

kudos to you for getting help. you are not a mean mom, you just need help. If you were truly mean you would not be feeling so much remorse.<br><br>
your dd is gonna be okay. be honest with her. tell her you are human and you made a mistake. she still loves you. it takes a lot of courage to admit you need help!<br>

 

[mamacitaLoca]

<p> </p>
<p>Thanks everyone. You've all given me great advice and perspective on this. Since the "incident", I have not lost my cool, and I see now how when I react to her, she reacts to me right back, and thats how we got to that ugly place. The whole thing has struck me like a lightening bolt.</p>

 

[MrsFred]

<p><span><img alt="hug2.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/hug2.gif"> Hugs to you mama. No words of wisdom, but lots of sympathy. We all make mistakes, and do things we are not proud of. Sometimes we have to touch bottom before we are motivated enough to do the work and make the changes we really need to. You will definitely remember this, and do better in the future.</span></p>

 

[BCFD]

<p>I have 3 girls - 6, 5, and 4 and let me tell you.....I have come close to spanking them.  VERY close!!  Instead, I feel like the most horrible Mommy on the planet and blow my top with yelling at them.  I agree with so many of the above posts and just wanted to let you know that I think it's amazing that you recognize this.  There are so many parents that don't or feel justified for hurting their children.    </p>
<p> </p>
<p>When my kids start with the whining, temper tantrums, screaming at me (Oh, I've been called "the meanest Mommy ever"!) I simply have to take a deep breath and walk away from them.  I say, "When you are ready to speak to me using your normal voice I would love to listen to what you have to say."  I always make sure that I use empathy, i.e. "Wow, you sound really, really upset about something!  Would you like to talk about it?" and 99% of the time they do.  I find that just by reacting to their temper in a calm matter can really cool the situation down.  And I am a total hot head, so I completely understand where you are coming from!  In the heat of the moment it's hard to be nice!  I have a friend who said she was going to make up a t-shirt that says:  MEAN IS QUICKER!  LOL!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In fact, a few months ago my 6 year old hit me with, "I want to go live with my real family!" and "You're not my REAL Mom!" (we adopted our children).  It hurt like nothing I have ever felt, I cried for a good solid hour, and now I find DD trying to use that against me when she is really mad at me.  I have pulled it together, I know she's saying it to me because it gets a reaction, and I have calmly said back to her, "I'm sorry you feel that way.  You do have a Birth Mom and she is definitely real, but I am your Mommy."  And once I even threw in, "...and I have a birth certificate with *MY* name on it to prove it!"  </p>
<p> </p>
<p>All 3 of my girls are sweet and loving and I am very, very close with them.  We have a wonderful relationship and I truly live to be their Mommy.  They are the center of my universe and I am really proud of myself for how I parent them.  We *ALL* have those moments where we wish we could duct tape them to the couch.   Hang in there, Mama!</p>

 

[Tigerchild]

<p>Adding here that while it's true the "you're not my real mom" is being used as a weapon--your adopted child may genuinely be feeling some pain/separation as an adoptee.  I know that I went in stages, and one of them was early elementary-ish, it was in 2nd grade, when there was just more talk about families and kids were more interested in slotting things in to place, and I knew that I was really different AND...I also did (and still do now and then) feel genuine loss and pain for my birth relatives, even though I never and do not know them.  I am sure that is acknowledged in your house, but just thought I would put that out there.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>To the OP, did you grow up with a very strict/restricted abusive or borderline abusive background?  I found that particularly at the 5+ age I needed a lot of therapeutic support.  Counseling was not cheap, but it was so, so worth it to learn how to simultaneously control the expression of my rage while learning to find appropriate outlets for my very understandable and deep need to express my rage over being suppressed and controlled so strongly when *I* was that age.  (My mother, who has untreated mental illness, was similarly abused by her father, as my second-mom aunt shared with me when I was an adult...I believe she was being triggered as strongly when I was her age as I am now--hopefully with my own kids the cycle will have been broken).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Please understand that you will make mistakes.  When faced with a mouthy, sullen, reactive, or out of control or belligerent kid--even people with the BEST instincts have lost control and done something they later regret.  I think the biggest difference is to try to be conscious of it, and most importantly to *apologize* (NOT in a panicked, reactive, overwhelmed with guilt way--but a very conscious, deliberate way) and talk to your kids about it.  Including any kids who might have witnessed what happened.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You were not a mean mommy.  You were an out of control mommy, for a brief period of time.  When any person is out of control (child or adult) they often do things that are hurtful and wrong to other people even if they didn't intend to.  It's important for kids to learn that as well as adults.</p>

 

[coyotemist]

<p>The Nov-Dec issue of Mothering Mag actually has an article about rage and anger.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hum, buzz, sing, count, walkaway, all are good things to do when you are that mad. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also, out of all my kids, my daughter is the one I've always had issues with, very similar to your issues.  It helped to have a time-out chair where I could send her when she was having tantrums.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Counseling is good, you might need antidepressants (or just more vitamin D!!!!), but none of those things are going to replace you actually putting into practice good anger management habits.  We are all human, we all make mistakes, the trick is just to not make the same ones again.</p>

 

[[email protected]]

<p>You are losing it w/ your child, and are treading on dangerous territory. The lying is one sign. You & your daughter have a "battle of the wills" thing going on, and she will be able to match your threats and anger precisely. Thus, no matter what physical thing you do to her (ie. spank, pull hair, slap), it will NOT reach her or change her behavior. It's a losing battle, no matter how hard you hit or loudly you scream. And additionally, it's creating a very traumatic interaction b/twn the 2 of you. She's just a kid. You may feel like she's doing this all to you on purpose, but really she wants your love and acceptance -- not your anger and abuse.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You need a new approach. This is not working for either of you. Your husband is right, you need to calm down. So how are you going to get there? I would suggest counseling.</p>

 

[MovnMama]

<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>[email protected]</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279825/mean-mom#post_16070255"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>You are losing it w/ your child, and are treading on dangerous territory. The lying is one sign. You & your daughter have a "battle of the wills" thing going on, and she will be able to match your threats and anger precisely. Thus, no matter what physical thing you do to her (ie. spank, pull hair, slap), it will NOT reach her or change her behavior. It's a losing battle, no matter how hard you hit or loudly you scream. And additionally, it's creating a very traumatic interaction b/twn the 2 of you. She's just a kid. You may feel like she's doing this all to you on purpose, but really she wants your love and acceptance -- not your anger and abuse.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You need a new approach. This is not working for either of you. Your husband is right, you need to calm down. So how are you going to get there? I would suggest counseling.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>I just want to jump in here quickly and ...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1. Offer my support and encouragement to the OP. I similarly hit bottom 6 mos ago with my son and did things I KNOW were wrong. I spent an AWFUL lot of time feeling extremely dysfunctional guilt over them. I've grown AMAZINGLY in my parenting philosophy, and (bonus!) in my teaching philosophy as well. So good can come out of a horrible situation. The reason we make mistakes is so we learn to be better people. Kudos for sharing when the risk for backlash was so high. <span><img alt="goodvibes.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/goodvibes.gif"></span></p>
<p> </p>
<p>2. Redirect from the last post, quoted above. While I'm sure this post is well intentioned, it does exactly what the OP requested not to happen, which is a reiteration of what she did wrong, with very little empathy and little offered in the way of concrete help or coping mechanisms. I personally feel (and flag me if you want) that frequently the MDC runs a <strong>THIN</strong> line between being supportive and extremely judgmental. The OP said specifically that she feared exactly the kind of "here's a rundown of what you did wrong and why it's wrong, you shouldn't have done that, shame on you, better get that fixed so your kids won't continue to suffer" response so much that she *questioned whether to post at all*. Hello - wake up call. Would you rather have a person struggling to implement GD ask for help or struggle alone, perhaps unsuccessfully?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thank you... carry on!</p>

 

[nd_deadhead]

<p>Mamacita, I feel for you. My twins were pretty easy-going, but they did through tantrums, and I did get frustrated. One night they had a huge fit about going to bed (which never happened), and I just wanted to knock their little heads together - but I knew that wouldn't help (they were about 4).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I did something drastic instead - I got down on my knees, and pulled them to me in a big hug. I discovered in that moment that I couldn't imagine grabbing them or yelling at them when I was holding them close, and it showed them that I loved them even when they were crying and screaming. We all headed to the couch, curled up together under a blanket, and I didn't let anyone say anything. When one of the said "It all started when..." I gently shushed him, and said "It doesn't matter how it started. What matters now it we're going to calm down together, so we can get to sleep tonight".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Sometimes 6-yr-olds throw fits. In our house, the rule was that you could scream and cry all you wanted - those feelings are valid - but you can't do it where you are disrupting the whole family. They could go to their room, or my room, or somewhere quiet - they got to choose. Next I asked if they wanted to sit on the chair or the bed; lights on or off; Mom stay or leave. I felt like each choice gave them a little sense of control, when thier emotions were out of control. There was never a time limit on how long they stayed in the room - it was as long as they needed to calm down. Sometimes they'd follow me out of the room. If they needed more time, I'd come back every few minutes to see if they needed a hug, or wanted to talk about it.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Counseling is a terrific idea. And I'm not going to tell you to "don't feel guilty". first of all, you can't help how you feel. Second, I think a little guilt is a good think - since you don't want to feel that way again, it will help you fight off the urge to over-react.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hang in there! The fact that you are asking for help is a huge first step. The skills you learn will help you deal with your other children too.</p>

 

[Dandelionkid]

<p>My friend is a christian too and has had trouble with anger in the past. She took a 12-step course that really helped her. I believe we could all use a 12-step- you are not alone in your dysfunctional moments!!!<br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mamacitaLoca</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279825/mean-mom#post_16053101"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Thanks, I feel better after thinking about it all day yesterday. I talked to my husband, he was very understanding, and we decided I should see my doctor and get some counseling. I can't let this happen again, my 6 year old will have tantrums, and so will her siblings. Its ME who needs to learn to deal with them.Thanks again.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm Christian by the way, but have not been to church for awhile, and I see how desperately I need to keep close to Jesus everyday.</p>
</div>
</div>
<br><br>

 

[coyotemist]

<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>nd_deadhead</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279825/mean-mom#post_16071125"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Mamacita, I feel for you. My twins were pretty easy-going, but they did through tantrums, and I did get frustrated. One night they had a huge fit about going to bed (which never happened), and I just wanted to knock their little heads together - but I knew that wouldn't help (they were about 4).</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>I did something drastic instead - I got down on my knees, and pulled them to me in a big hug. I discovered in that moment that I couldn't imagine grabbing them or yelling at them when I was holding them close, and it showed them that I loved them even when they were crying and screaming. We all headed to the couch, curled up together under a blanket, and I didn't let anyone say anything. When one of the said "It all started when..." I gently shushed him, and said "It doesn't matter how it started. What matters now it we're going to calm down together, so we can get to sleep tonight".</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Sometimes 6-yr-olds throw fits. In our house, the rule was that you could scream and cry all you wanted - those feelings are valid - but you can't do it where you are disrupting the whole family. They could go to their room, or my room, or somewhere quiet - they got to choose. Next I asked if they wanted to sit on the chair or the bed; lights on or off; Mom stay or leave. I felt like each choice gave them a little sense of control, when thier emotions were out of control. There was never a time limit on how long they stayed in the room - it was as long as they needed to calm down. Sometimes they'd follow me out of the room. If they needed more time, I'd come back every few minutes to see if they needed a hug, or wanted to talk about it.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Counseling is a terrific idea. And I'm not going to tell you to "don't feel guilty". first of all, you can't help how you feel. Second, I think a little guilt is a good think - since you don't want to feel that way again, it will help you fight off the urge to over-react.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hang in there! The fact that you are asking for help is a huge first step. The skills you learn will help you deal with your other children too.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p><br>
Beautiful story!  I'll have to remember that!</p>

 

[dalia]

<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MovnMama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279825/mean-mom#post_16070302"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><br><br><p> </p>
<p>I just want to jump in here quickly and ...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1. Offer my support and encouragement to the OP. I similarly hit bottom 6 mos ago with my son and did things I KNOW were wrong. I spent an AWFUL lot of time feeling extremely dysfunctional guilt over them. I've grown AMAZINGLY in my parenting philosophy, and (bonus!) in my teaching philosophy as well. So good can come out of a horrible situation. The reason we make mistakes is so we learn to be better people. Kudos for sharing when the risk for backlash was so high. " rel="<a href="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/goodvibes.gif">http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/goodvibes.gif</a>"><img alt="goodvibes.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/goodvibes.gif"></p>
<p> </p>
<p>2. Redirect from the last post, quoted above. While I'm sure this post is well intentioned, it does exactly what the OP requested not to happen, which is a reiteration of what she did wrong, with very little empathy and little offered in the way of concrete help or coping mechanisms. I personally feel (and flag me if you want) that frequently the MDC runs a <strong>THIN</strong> line between being supportive and extremely judgmental. The OP said specifically that she feared exactly the kind of "here's a rundown of what you did wrong and why it's wrong, you shouldn't have done that, shame on you, better get that fixed so your kids won't continue to suffer" response so much that she *questioned whether to post at all*. Hello - wake up call. Would you rather have a person struggling to implement GD ask for help or struggle alone, perhaps unsuccessfully?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thank you... carry on!</p>
</div>
</div>
<br><br><br><br><br><img alt="thumb.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/thumb.gif"> can't find the "yeah that" emoticon but if I could it would be here!