[flyagaric]

Hi everyone... well, my 15mo daughter is pretty unwell right now, and this morning after a few days of fever and generally being supremely tired and miserable, she has developed a rash. I can't tell from the images I've found whether it's measles or something milder - just how ill and not herself she's been makes me think it's measles, plus the symptoms add up more except I don't think she has the white spots in her mouth. In any case I know you guys can't diagnose her! I'm just wondering if anybody has had experience with this in their kids or themselves... and specifically, what you did or didn't do to help matters.

My DD has had no vaccinations, so it wouldn't surprise me if it were measles. But I am very hesitant to take her to our GP here (UK) because well, they suck. I'm quite sure they would want her to have painkillers and antibiotics, and maybe even push the MMR on us. And from what I've been reading it is actually better NOT to suppress the fever (though in DD the fever's gone) and rash and my own feelings about antibiotics just tell me that's a rubbish idea. Surely she needs beneficial bacteria to help ward off infections, not a mass extermination of all bacteria in her body (even before a potential complication arises?!).

Does anybody know of anything I should be doing to help ensure a good recovery? She's completely off food (except raw honey, which she will take, and I'm hoping it won't be bad for her...) but has been nursing a lot, so I'm trying to eat a lot of vitamins C and A in the hope that they transfer over to her. Has anybody here seen their (unvaxed?) kids through measles OK? What was it like, what did you do? And out of curiosity... has anybody seen the overall improvement in their kids' wellbeing and development following a case of measles? This is just something I've been reading about and I'm curious to know if there's something to it! Thank you all.

 

[kathymuggle]

Consider cross- posting on the I am not vaccinating forum. There are moms there who have dealt with measels. For myself, I would up the vit. a and avoid, avoid, avoid aceteminophen.

http://www.mothering.com/forum/443-i-m-not-vaccinating/

 

[momOplenty]

hi! i won't be a huge help, but i'll ask my mom soon what she did for me. i did have MMR when i was an infant, but got measles from some other vaxed kid when i was 2 or so. i also caught rubella the next year from another kid. (she stopped all vaccinations after that lol). i can't guarantee she did the healthiest of things, who knows, but just so you know, i am a-ok. mom said it was hellish for a few days, high fevers, etc. but i'll get back to you after i find out what she did, and if it was anything remotely natural. it was the 80s, so she was kinda 50/50 on all that. she probably put rubbing alcohol on my face or something. yikes! hang in there!

 

[kathymuggle]

http://www.mothering.com/forum/443-i-m-not-vaccinating/1399808-curious-about-treatments.html

post 7.

healthy vibes for you little one :goodvibes

 

[MountainMamaGC]

Are you sure it isnt Roseola? Its really common, and many people call it the baby measles.

 

[Deborah]

I had measles as a child. I remember feeling yucky for a couple of days and then gradually better.

The only thing I've come across is that it is important to make sure the bowels keep moving--this is the one situation where it might even make sense to give some sort of laxative if a child is a bit constipated.

And, of course, not suppressing fever.

I have heard of children making developmental leaps following measles and/or chickenpox.

 

[childrenarewelcome.co.uk]

If you think that she has measles, you should call your GP. They will probably ask you to come as surgery closes or send someone out to take a swab and look at her. Chances are it will not be measles as fortunately most people have had the vaccine in the UK.

Please CALL BEFORE GOING TO THE DOCTOR OR HOSPITAL! If your daughter has measles and comes into contact with a person with a lowered immune system then it is potentially fatal for that person (ie. someone on chemotherapy; elderly or already sick). Hospital A and E departments in particular will not be happy if you turn up on the suspicion that your child has an infectious disease in case they have someone susceptible to it in their care.

Measles itself has well documented complications that you should look into in case it is what is wrong. However, from the description that you have given it can't be diagnosed online so keep your mind open.

 

[Mirzam]

If you think that she has measles, you should call your GP. They will probably ask you to come as surgery closes or send someone out to take a swab and look at her. Chances are it will not be measles as fortunately most people have had the vaccine in the UK.

Please CALL BEFORE GOING TO THE DOCTOR OR HOSPITAL! If your daughter has measles and comes into contact with a person with a lowered immune system then it is potentially fatal for that person (ie. someone on chemotherapy; elderly or already sick). Hospital A and E departments in particular will not be happy if you turn up on the suspicion that your child has an infectious disease in case they have someone susceptible to it in their care.

Measles itself has well documented complications that you should look into in case it is what is wrong. However, from the description that you have given it can't be diagnosed online so keep your mind open.

Ummm, don't you think old age pensioners would be immune to measles, considering they likely had it as a child, and getting and recovering from mealses (which almost everyone does) results in lifelong immunity? How many OAPs get measles in the UK these days? Of course this will likely change by 2050 when the general population will have to rely soley on inadequate vaccine induced immunity, then you might see measles among the elderly.

 

[childrenarewelcome.co.uk]

Ummm, don't you think old age pensioners would be immune to measles, considering they likely had it as a child, and getting and recovering from mealses (which almost everyone does) results in lifelong immunity? How many OAPs get measles in the UK these days? Of course this will likely change by 2050 when the general population will have to rely soley on inadequate vaccine induced immunity, then you might see measles among the elderly.

If you take a step back and actually look at the facts, not EVERYBODY caught measles before vaccination. Not even a majority of people did. Therefore no I don't think it "likely" that a pensioner had it as a child if by "likely" you mean >50% probability. With pensioners being more susceptible to commmunicable diseases, it would seem prudent to take sensible precautions.

 

[Mirzam]

If you take a step back and actually look at the facts, not EVERYBODY caught measles before vaccination. Not even a majority of people did. Therefore no I don't think it "likely" that a pensioner had it as a child if by "likely" you mean >50% probability. With pensioners being more susceptible to commmunicable diseases, it would seem prudent to take sensible precautions.

Perhaps you can provide me with proof that current OAPs did not have and would not be immune to measles. I can assure you that way more than 50% of current OAPs had measles. The virus was ubiquitous in Britain prior to vaccination, so even if some didn't have symptoms as a child, they would most certainly have come into contact with it and therefore would have created a immune response. The elderly as a group are not in danger of contracting measles, in fact coming into contact with the disease would give them a natural boost.

 

[childrenarewelcome.co.uk]

Perhaps you can provide me with proof that current OAPs did not have and would not be immune to measles. I can assure you that way more than 50% of current OAPs had measles. The virus was ubiquitous in Britain prior to vaccination, so even if some didn't have symptoms as a child, they would most certainly have come into contact with it and therefore would have created a immune response. The elderly as a group are not in danger of contracting measles, in fact coming into contact with the disease would give them a natural boost.

As a rough and ready guide on the numbers :

1946-1960 figures as they are to hand :

Measles : 5,851,417 *source HPA
Births : 10,979,701 *source ONS
Net Immigration : c. 1.4mio *source ONS

Now assuming that you use these as a base reference point that makes around 47% of that cohort on a reasonable approximation who were exposed over that period. Of course there are people that were born before that and not exposed but we can exclude that for the purposes of this as obviously it would move the percentage lower.

Either way, it is not "way more than 50%" of people born in that period who have definitely had measles. Obviously if you have statistics that demonstrate as you say that "way more than 50% of current OAPs had measles" then it'd be great if you could share as it is an interesting topic.

Of course, leaving aside the numbers on that specific point, it still leaves other groups with reduced ability to fight measles that we should be aware of too when our lifestyle decisions can impact their health. I don't think that anyone would suggest that calling the GP in advance isn't a good idea?

 

[95191]

As a rough and ready guide on the numbers :

1946-1960 figures as they are to hand :

Measles : 5,851,417 *source HPA
Births : 10,979,701 *source ONS
Net Immigration : c. 1.4mio *source ONS

Now assuming that you use these as a base reference point that makes around 47% of that cohort on a reasonable approximation who were exposed over that period. Of course there are people that were born before that and not exposed but we can exclude that for the purposes of this as obviously it would move the percentage lower.

Either way, it is not "way more than 50%" of people born in that period who have definitely had measles. Obviously if you have statistics that demonstrate as you say that "way more than 50% of current OAPs had measles" then it'd be great if you could share as it is an interesting topic.

Of course, leaving aside the numbers on that specific point, it still leaves other groups with reduced ability to fight measles that we should be aware of too when our lifestyle decisions can impact their health. I don't think that anyone would suggest that calling the GP in advance isn't a good idea?

I was under the impression almost everyone re-vaccinated because of last years outbreak in Wales - your saying even with an outbreak many in that age group didn't? Thought those outbreaks were to scare people into vaccinating.

OP I think you have gotten some great advise here - hope you little on feels better soon.

 

[childrenarewelcome.co.uk]

I was under the impression almost everyone re-vaccinated because of last years outbreak in Wales - your saying even with an outbreak many in that age group didn't? Thought those outbreaks were to scare people into vaccinating.

OP I think you have gotten some great advise here - hope you little on feels better soon.

I don't think that a significant number re-vaccinated, but again if you have a figure to support your impression I'd love to see it.

Anyway, more importantly, I hope the little one feels better soon.

 

[Mirzam]

As a rough and ready guide on the numbers :

1946-1960 figures as they are to hand :

Measles : 5,851,417 *source HPA
Births : 10,979,701 *source ONS
Net Immigration : c. 1.4mio *source ONS

Now assuming that you use these as a base reference point that makes around 47% of that cohort on a reasonable approximation who were exposed over that period. Of course there are people that were born before that and not exposed but we can exclude that for the purposes of this as obviously it would move the percentage lower.

Either way, it is not "way more than 50%" of people born in that period who have definitely had measles. Obviously if you have statistics that demonstrate as you say that "way more than 50% of current OAPs had measles" then it'd be great if you could share as it is an interesting topic.

Of course, leaving aside the numbers on that specific point, it still leaves other groups with reduced ability to fight measles that we should be aware of too when our lifestyle decisions can impact their health. I don't think that anyone would suggest that calling the GP in advance isn't a good idea?

You cannot extrapolate that 50% of the population did not get (or were not exposed to) measles by the above statistics. Prior to the introduction of the measles vaccine babies were born to immune mothers and had the benefit of maternal anti-bodies. Measles generally affected the children between the ages of three and 15, with an average age of 9 years. By 15, almost all the population had come into contact with measles. In a paper entitled, Epidemiologic Basis For Eradicatin of Measles In 1967 (Sencer, Dull, Langmuir), every child by adolescence would have been exposed to measles. (Emphasis mine).

Susceptibility to the disease (measles) after waning maternal immunity is universal; immunity following recovery is solid and lifelong in duration.

The infection spreads by direct contact from person to person and by airborne route among susceptibles congregated in enclosed spaces. The disease occurs ubiquitously throughout the world in periodic cycles of considerable regularity. With the exception of a few extremely isolated population groups, essentially all children experience the infection sometime before adolescence.

So, no, the current elder population of the UK is not at risk of measles. I agree it is certainly a good idea to call your GP ahead of time if you suspect you have measles though. FWIW, I had measles around age 9 and our GP made house calls! He took one look and me and proclaimed measles.

 

[flyagaric]

hi everyone, wow! i actually didn't realise there were all these replies! thanks to you all for the advice and discussion.

as it turns out my daughter DID have roseola (as somebody up there asked - yep!) and NOT measles, luckily. she's back to her normal now! but i'm glad for the responses because i think the vitamin a and c really helped. i didn't think it was roseola because it seemed too severe, but i guess she just had a bad case of it. all's well that ends well friends

 

[95191]

I don't think that a significant number re-vaccinated, but again if you have a figure to support your impression I'd love to see it.

Anyway, more importantly, I hope the little one feels better soon.

I read the news repots of what looked like mass panic. I saw/read several news stories of long lines and calls for everyone to get up to date. You mean people didn't take it serious?

 

[95191]

hi everyone, wow! i actually didn't realise there were all these replies! thanks to you all for the advice and discussion.

as it turns out my daughter DID have roseola (as somebody up there asked - yep!) and NOT measles, luckily. she's back to her normal now! but i'm glad for the responses because i think the vitamin a and c really helped. i didn't think it was roseola because it seemed too severe, but i guess she just had a bad case of it. all's well that ends well friends

A & C are wonderful, so is D!...... fresh air also is a real + :thumb

Glad you know and sure she will be good as new real soon!

 

[MountainMamaGC]

Well it did seem the obvious explanation.