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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm nak, sorry. Can someone tell me what's up w/ using this? is it safe? I've given it to ds1 (AS) a few time (0.85mg about) and it does work wonderfully andf he's happy and well-rested the next day. How often is ok?<br><br>
And is it safe to give my 17 month old who NEVER sleeps? I am seriously sleep deprived. He wakes every hour all night, doesn't go to sleep till ~10PM, wakes up between 6:30 and 7:30 AM and only takes 1 30-60 minute nap, usually closer to 30 than 60. That's it. Dh is a grad student, this is his last semester (hopefully) so he's rareely home. He used to let me sleep in one morning a week, which made a hufe difference, but it hasn't been happening the last few. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> I'm starting to not function well and I'm worried abouit driving. sorry about my typing <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:<br><br>
btw, ds3 is already showing signs of being on the spectrum. my friend whose 5 yo has AS was here today and says he's showing more signs already than her ds did at his age. I thought he was shpwing more than ds1 did as well, but it's been so long I was hoping I was forgetting.
 

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I don't think you can give melatonin to a kiddo that young (17 mos.), BUT...we started giving our ds <a href="http://www.hylands.com/products/calms4kids.php" target="_blank">Hyland's calms forte 4 kids</a> tabs when he was around 16-18ish months. The bottle says for ages 2 and up, so we gave him 1 tablet every 15 minutes instead of 2. Usually 3-4 doses 15 min. increments apart helped. We also got a weighted blanket around that time...actually, no, we got the weighted blanket earlier, like at aget 15 mos. or so. Anyway, we also started epsom salt baths (add 1/2-1 cup to bathwater, let child soak at least 15 mintues in tub for maximum absorption) then too.<br><br>
Let me just say, I was in your same boat too when ds was a year old, and it led to massive problems both physically and psychologically. I pretty much cracked, if you wanna get down to it. Dh HAD TO start taking "night duty" every other night at that time, it was just too much for me to keep doing it all. Ds was pissed, sure, he hated taking the bottle (ebm). But I was beaten down, I NEEDED to sleep through the night at least every other night. It was hard at first for me to calm down enough to relax and sleep through the night, so we had to have dh take the baby monitor to his side of the bed, and I sleep with earplugs. When ds got up, he had to turn off the monitor and close our bedroom door when he went to get ds (I can hear a mouse pee on a cotton ball in the next county) so I wouldn't wake. I also had to take melatonin for myself.<br><br>
So try the hyland's, they're pretty darned safe. Get a weighted blanket, you can rush order one from here (where both of our blankets came from):<br><a href="http://www.saltoftheearthweightedgear.com" target="_blank">www.saltoftheearthweightedgear.com</a><br><br>
And start the epsom salt baths. You might also try turning on a box fan in your ds3's room and turn it on low and have it face the wall for white noise. We do this as well.<br><br>
As for how often you can give the melatonin, you can give it every night for a few weeks just to get your child's sleep regulated if need be. My son's developmental pediatrician says you can give it every night indefinitely. I have taken it every night myself for 2 years now.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2"><br><br>
Hope this helps. Please have your dh share night duty with you, if you do nothing else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply. We really can't afford the weighted blanket right now. Dh does help me at night, but then we're both zombies b/c I still wake up, so I figure now at least, dh is functioning at work. I just need him to be home at least one morning a week to let me sleep in like he used to. I do much better on little sleep than dh does. Ds3 still sleeps with us. He wouldn't sleep at all if he weren't in bed w/ us. For his nap, someone has to hold him or he doesn't sleep at all (unless we're in the car.) I'm not sure he'd use a weighted blanket anyway. I think he'd freak completely out. He hates to be touched. He only recently started letting us cover him w/ the comforter in bed, and I'm sure that's only b/c it's freezing outside and chilly inside. Ds1 would probably love to have a weighted blanket, though. That's near the top of my list of things to buy when we actually have money. A urinal is first. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br>
I'll try the epsom salts tonight. I think we have some from when my mom was here. If not, tomorrow. Ds does really like to take baths. We also started giving him oil massages right before bed. Like I said, he doesn't like to be touched usually (ever nurse a baby who doesn't like to be touched? lol) but he really seems to like the massages. Dh is proctoring an exam tonight, so I'm alone w/ the kids. I think I'll give him a bath and a massage and see how it goes. Ds1 is going to have to take the melatonin tonight, I can't handle going through a bedtime thing w/ him as well. Ds2 usually passes out on the floor, so he'll be alright. Poor kid.
 

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Do you sew at all? They're quite easy to make if you can sew straight lines.<br><br>
The poly pellets are available at michael's and you can just use 3 layers of any mid weight cotton fabric--flannel, etc. I put a layer of organic cotton batting inside to cushion the feeling of the beads. but it's quite sturdy and washable.<br><br>
Finch, that was our exact experience with DS's sleep at about age 1. I was just about suicidal, it was that bad. We traded nights until I was too pregnant with DD to stand it anymore (DS is a barnacle-sleeper), and DH has been sleeping with DS ever since. Poor guy--DS still sleeps terribly at 4.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Sleepymama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7250927"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Do you sew at all? They're quite easy to make if you can sew straight lines.<br><br>
The poly pellets are available at michael's and you can just use 3 layers of any mid weight cotton fabric--flannel, etc. I put a layer of organic cotton batting inside to cushion the feeling of the beads. but it's quite sturdy and washable.<br><br>
Finch, that was our exact experience with DS's sleep at about age 1. I was just about suicidal, it was that bad. We traded nights until I was too pregnant with DD to stand it anymore (DS is a barnacle-sleeper), and DH has been sleeping with DS ever since. Poor guy--DS still sleeps terribly at 4.</div>
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I sew, but am terrified to make my own weighted blanket. If there's a SUPER DUPER EASY pattern available, let me in on it!<br><br>
What's a barnacle-sleeper? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"><br><br>
Have you asked your ds's doc about clonidine? It's actually a BP drug, but it is given to autistic kids and some adhd kids to sleep, and works quite well. I first read about it in <span style="text-decoration:underline;">Making Peace With Autism</span>, apparently her ds was quite the crappy sleeper too, and clonidine was the miracle drug. He's been taking it for like 10 years now I think.<br><br>
Anyhoo...I did read that kids with autism actually need LESS sleep.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
yeah, my ped told me that there wasn't much we could do about the nightwaking. He said ds is obviously happy and healthy, so he must be getting enough sleep. And I guess that's true, he doesn't SEEM to need more (although when he gets more, he seems to be calmer.) Which is great, but what about me? I like my ped, and the more I talk to him, the more I like him. He's pretty cool w/ AP things, admitted his 6 year old still sleeps w/ him and his wife, etc. But I do wish he'd had some suggestions for getting Liam to sleep better. Well, at least he didn't suggest CIO.<br><br>
I did the bath and massage. I nursed the younger 2 and ds2 is fast asleep. Ds1 is in bed, but I still hear him moving. I diodn't give him the melatonin, but I might if he isn't asleep soon. Ds3 is still awake, but at least he's sort of calm right now. He was crazy hyper earlier.<br><br>
Sleepymama, I do sew, and I sew pretty well. I used to sew a lot, but ds3 doesn't let me get anything done. If you could give me more specific instructions, I would really appreciate it!
 

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Sorry, barnacle-sleeper: sleeps like a barnacle attached to a parent.<br><br>
There is a good website that details how to make it. basically you sew like a patchwork quilt--all the lines one way. Then you fill each channel with some beads and then sew across to make the row into little boxes, keep repeating until you're done. You can turn and topstitch the whole thing or put a blanket or quilt binding on it.<br><br>
I will ask about that med. We recently saw an awful psychiatrist who wants to put DS on risperdal without any thought about whether that's what he needs or not. I'm shopping around and will ask about that one.
 

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DS is on 0.5mg Melatonin every night, and has been for about 8-9months- works like a charm. We did a neurotransmitter panel just to be sure nothing else was out of whack (thankfully it wasn't) so his DAN! doc said to keep using it!!!! I've heard of ASD studies with kids taking 3mg every night!!!! I'd be out for days!!!!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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We're the oddballs here...melatonin didn't really work for us. We're about to start doing some chelation stuff though..I started epsom salt baths and we're going to begin methyl b12 injections..the day after his first epsom salt bath he had probably the best day at school he's ever had..<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"><br><br>
But as for sleep..my dr. says we need to possibly wait until he's not in school (summer) and take about 3 weeks to adjust his schedule so it's more normal. Eli now sleeps 12am to 8am weekdays and sometimes until 12pm on weekends since I don't wake him for school..this leads me to believe he actually needs 12 hours of sleep but I have yet to figure out how to get him to take it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, I got the epsom salts yesterday. THe bath I gave him the other night had bath salts that contained epsom salt. I put a tonin b/c I wasn't sure how much. Guess it wasn't enough because last night, I got home around 9:30 (ds1's Sunday school class did the shabbat candle lighting, kiddish, etc, at services last night. He did a great job!) and ds3 had just fallen asleep on dh's chest at the computer (he falls asleep better for dh than he does me! Problem is that dh isn't always home.) So I ran the bath, put in the epsom salt and climbed in. Dh stripped the baby and handed him to me. I don't think he ever woke up the whole time we soaked. My neck is still stiff, but we both slept better last night than we have for months! Yay! I think he only woke up 2 or 3 times! He still woke up at 6:45, but at least I got more than an hour of sleep at a time!<br><br>
Thanks so much for the suggestions!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>logan&jordansmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7265945"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Do you know if you can use epsom salt for any age?</div>
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I honestly don't know. I can't see it being harmful unless the child drank the water, as epsom salts have a laxative effect and can cause electrolyte imbalance if too much is ingested. If I were going to use them with an infant in a bath, I would add like 1/4 cup, max, and just be really careful that baby didn't accidentally ingest any.
 

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RE: Weighted blanket. We use a queen size knit blanket that folded over a bunch of times is quite heavy. Cheap - we already owned it <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">.<br><br>
RE: Melatonin. There's a bunch of cited studies here (I ignored the text around it):<br><a href="http://www.worldhealth.net/p/4187,4473.html" target="_blank">http://www.worldhealth.net/p/4187,4473.html</a><br><br>
Note, it is contraindicated for those with respiratory problems (<a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030908070842.htm" target="_blank">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0908070842.htm</a>, but also this <a href="http://www.newstarget.com/002406.html" target="_blank">http://www.newstarget.com/002406.html</a>, but I'm very careful about ds's asthma), and I read somewhere (I can find the cite if you're interested) that you should cycle them on/off the melatonin to ensure their body continues to naturally produce it.<br><br>
If it doesn't work, you may need to use a higher dose. 3-5mg is considered safe, and my 7 yr old dd takes between those two amounts. It doesn't seem to be particularly weight-dependent, although I only started using it with her at 6.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
THanks for your post. I'll have to discuss it w/ our doctors. Maybe we can find someone who knows a little about it. I need to get out of IN. No one knows anything here.
 

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when DS 1 was 17m, his sleep habits were exactly as you describe, except the wakings were every 40 mintus and shin nap was a bit better.<br>
Anyway, we didn't try melatonin until a yera later. What we did d-and didn't work- was hyalnds teething tablets, tylenol, motrin, camomile, other homeopathic stuff I don't recall. and finally, weaning! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/bag.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Bag">:<br><br>
nothing helped. as he grew it got better, but he's 4 now and still up several times a night. Melatonon usually works for him when he's having trouble falling asleep but we've only used it, oh, 5 times? we're afraid of dependency. and it only helps at the start of the night, not his wakings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
ds might wake every 40 min for all I know. I don't look at the clock. I just know he wakes more than 5 times per night every night and sometimes more than 8-9-10 times.
 

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well, looking back on our experince my advice would be to be agressive in finding a fix. It's unreasonable that we lived like that so long- hard on parents, but probably harder still on the boy. I never even mentioned it to the doctor, just medicated at home with camomile and mild pain meds. every day. forever. looking back, I can't see anymore why that was the morally superior choice.<br>
so, yes on melatonin. research any long-term use risks, of course. but it if works... good!
 

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I do use melatonin with my guy though not every night and small amounts. We don't have night waking issues <span style="text-decoration:underline;">unless</span> his reflux is out of control. Then it is awful. I only mention this because I read something (and wish I had bookmarked it) that said that studies had shown that kids that were waking frequently were often refluxing. I want to say the study was particularly with spectrum kids but I don't remember for sure. It struck me because of what we've noticed with my son who is on reflux medication. So that is something to think about...I know there are lots of causes though unrelated to pain.
 
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