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Love him or hate him, Michael Moore has some thought provoking ideas on how to fix this mess.<br><br><a href="http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=237" target="_blank">http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/me...dex.php?id=237</a><br><br>
The parts that I think stand out are-<br><br>
BAIL OUT THE PEOPLE LOSING THEIR HOMES, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO WILL BUILD AN EIGHTH HOME. There are 1.3 million homes in foreclosure right now. That is what is at the heart of this problem. So instead of giving the money to the banks as a gift, pay down each of these mortgages by $100,000. Force the banks to renegotiate the mortgage so the homeowner can pay on its current value. To insure that this help does no go to speculators and those who have tried to make money by flipping houses, this bailout is only for people's primary residence. And in return for the $100K paydown on the existing mortgage, the government gets to share in the holding of the mortgage so that it can get some of its money back. Thus, the total initial cost of fixing the mortgage crisis at its roots (instead of with the greedy lenders) is $150 billion, not $700 billion.<br><br>
NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD BE PAID MORE THAN 40 TIMES THEIR AVERAGE EMPLOYEE, AND NO EXECUTIVE SHOULD RECEIVE ANY KIND OF "PARACHUTE" OTHER THAN THE VERY GENEROUS SALARY HE OR SHE MADE WHILE WORKING FOR THE COMPANY. In 1980, the average American CEO made 45 times what their employees made. By 2003, they were making 254 times what their workers made. After 8 years of Bush, they now make over 400 times what their average employee makes. How this can happen at publicly held companies is beyond reason. In Britain, the average CEO makes 28 times what their average employee makes. In Japan, it's only 17 times! The last I heard, the CEO of Toyota was living the high life in Tokyo. How does he do it on so little money? Seriously, this is an outrage. We have created the mess we're in by letting the people at the top become bloated beyond belief with millions of dollars. This has to stop. Not only should no executive who receives help out of this mess profit from it, but any executive who was in charge of running his company into the ground should be fired before the company receives any help.<br><br>
EVERYBODY NEEDS TO TAKE A DEEP BREATH, CALM DOWN, AND NOT LET FEAR RULE THE DAY. Turn off the TV! We are not in the Second Great Depression. The sky is not falling. Pundits and politicians are lying to us so fast and furious it's hard not to be affected by all the fear mongering. Even I, yesterday, wrote to you and repeated what I heard on the news, that the Dow had the biggest one day drop in its history. Well, that's true in terms of points, but its 7% drop came nowhere close to Black Monday in 1987 when the stock market in one day lost 23% of its value. In the '80s, 3,000 banks closed, but America didn't go out of business. These institutions have always had their ups and downs and eventually it works out. It has to, because the rich do not like their wealth being disrupted! They have a vested interest in calming things down and getting back into the Jacuzzi.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">10. CREATE A NATIONAL BANK, A "PEOPLE'S BANK."</td>
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Yes. It would be like a union owned by the people, for the people. We would get higher rates on our savings and lower rates on loans. And we can call it a Union of Credit.
 

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I don't think the banks or the homeowners should be bailed out. I think both sides are in the mess that they are in, with a few exceptions on the homeowners side, because of greed. The banks wanted to make commission and gave loans to unqualified people. The homeowners bought more home than they could afford. The New York Times several weeks ago had a piece about a postman who was loosing his apartment. He made $60,000 a year and bought the home for nearly $600,000. What ever made him think he could afford that??!!!<br><br>
I do agree that the disparity between executive pay and that of the average worker is disgusting. It needs to be fixed.<br><br>
I also agree that the sky is not falling. People need to calm down.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>llamalluv</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12360606"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yes. It would be like a union owned by the people, for the people. We would get higher rates on our savings and lower rates on loans. And we can call it a Union of Credit.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/ROTFLMAO.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rotflmao">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>KateKat</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12360632"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't think the banks or the homeowners should be bailed out. I think both sides are in the mess that they are in, with a few exceptions on the homeowners side, because of greed. The banks wanted to make commission and gave loans to unqualified people. The homeowners bought more home than they could afford. The New York Times several weeks ago had a piece about a postman who was loosing his apartment. He made $60,000 a year and bought the home for nearly $600,000. What ever made him think he could afford that??!!!</div>
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I agree with you.<br><br>
Gee, let's reward people for living outside their means. What about the people who rent because they can't afford to own? What about the people who own but bought a smaller house that they could afford? Are we going to hand out $100,000 like it's candy?<br><br>
I feel badly for the people who are losing their homes because of things they can't control- costs going on, lay offs, etc.<br><br>
But that is not the answer. I can not stand Michael Moore.
 

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I love this line... "he last I heard, the CEO of Toyota was living the high life in Tokyo. How does he do it on so little money?"
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>grniys</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12362181"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I feel badly for the people who are losing their homes because of things they can't control- costs going on, lay offs, etc.<br><br>
But that is not the answer</div>
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Yeah - really. I would be beyond pissed off if the person next door to me (hypothetically) got 100k from the government just b/c they couldn't pay their mortgage. If you can't pay your mortgage then you can't afford your house.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>KateKat</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12360632"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't think the banks or the homeowners should be bailed out. I think both sides are in the mess that they are in, with a few exceptions on the homeowners side, because of greed. The banks wanted to make commission and gave loans to unqualified people. The homeowners bought more home than they could afford. The New York Times several weeks ago had a piece about a postman who was loosing his apartment. He made $60,000 a year and bought the home for nearly $600,000. What ever made him think he could afford that??!!!<br><br>
I do agree that the disparity between executive pay and that of the average worker is disgusting. It needs to be fixed.<br><br>
I also agree that the sky is not falling. People need to calm down.</div>
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I did NOT buy more home than I could afford. I stopped being able to afford my home when my interest rate reset. Because of some financial hard times our credit had taken a hit and we could no longer refinance for a better permanent rate like we'd originally planned to!!! We originally had to take the ARM because my exdh had filed for bankruptcy when I divorced him. If I hadn't participated I would have had to pay all of his debts!!!<br><br>
So, there are many many ppl like me, people that didn't buy luxurious homes they couldn't afford!!! We live in a 1100 sq ft, 30 yo old fixer upper!!!! If I could talk the mortgage holder into going back to the original interest rate (which is still well above the current national rate) we could afford our home quite easily, thankyou. Instead, most of our income is going to our mortage. EDITED TO ADD: I don't want 100K from the government, but I would be VERY thankful if my lender would refinance for me at my original rate.
 

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I wouldn't be upset about that. What are people supposed to do? I live in an area with something like 20% unemployment. I mean really, what are they supposed to do? There are foreclosures all over here. The most expensive house in my neighborhood might sell for $120k and that is being really generous. None of us have granite counter tops or anything like that. Most of these people have been in their houses for a long time and then with plants shutting down and the economy getting flushed down the toilet, they could just no longer make their payments.<br><br>
Empty houses that no one can buy because everyone's broke do nothing good for communities. They bring down the value of our house and I would rather have neighbors in houses than homeless neighbors.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>swimswamswum</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12362400"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">They bring down the value of our house and I would rather have neighbors in houses than homeless neighbors.</div>
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I want the value of homes in my neighborhood to significantly decrease so I can afford to buy. They're begining to fall a bit, but are still very much inflated and out of my range.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>moondiapers</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12362388"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I did NOT buy more home than I could afford. I stopped being able to afford my home when my interest rate reset. Because of some financial hard times our credit had taken a hit and we could no longer refinance for a better permanent rate like we'd originally planned to!!! We originally had to take the ARM because my exdh had filed for bankruptcy when I divorced him. If I hadn't participated I would have had to pay all of his debts!!!</div>
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Not to be insensative, but you signed on for an adjustable rate mortage. If you can't afford the rate now that it's adjusted, you did buy more home than you could afford. You could have either shopped around for a fixed rate mortage or rented if you did not qualify for one.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>KateKat</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12362908"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Not to be insensative, but you signed on for an adjustable rate mortage. If you can't afford the rate now that it's adjusted, you did buy more home than you could afford. You could have either shopped around for a fixed rate mortage or rented if you did not qualify for one.</div>
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I hope nothing unforseen ever happens to you so that you can't afford the home you buy, 4 years after you bought it. FTR, our unforseen circumstances were 3 surgeries and two car accidents and the medical bills that go with the car accidents.
 

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I want to really call out the implication that only people who sought to live outside their means are losing their homes.<br><br>
A year and a half ago, I was offered a job all the way on the other side of my country. Three or four months later I put my house on the market just as it began to crash. Suddenly a home that realistically could have been sold in no time for $250,000 just a couple months earlier was being listed at $239,000 and had just three folks come to look at it in two months even with a fantastic real estate agent. We thought that was bad, but we had no idea. I moved a couple months after we listed. We had to establish a new home of some sort, so we were paying rent and a mortgage, and our house was just sitting there. Home values continued to fall and fall. We began having to dip into our already greatly depreciated home equity to support both homes. We were looking for renters, considering whether the worst case scenario would finally be foreclosure. We were terrified. Finally, we sold, but a good ten months after we moved and for just enough to pay off our remaining mortgage and put a *small* downpayment on a new house. Thinking at least we'd make up for our loss by buying when prices were low, and noting that home sales were actually starting to increase again in our community, last spring, we put an offer in on a house and bought for what we thought was the bottom of the market price. The house was truly one of the most affordable in our area. The sellers sold it to us for $40,000 under what they paid four years ago (luckily they had cushioning themselves). The mortgage stretches us but is only $200 more per month than what we were paying for rent in this very expensive state. On the other hand, I am starting to see folks around me lose jobs, experience decreases in income. My job, though it felt very secure still even a few months ago when we were completing our home purchase, is not one of the most secure in the spectrum of things, especially when economic times are bad. The price of food and fuel has skyrocketed and is one more thing stretching our budget. Home prices are continuing to fall. It's looking worse and worse every week, and I don't think it is just one type of homeowner who is starting to take the hit. I think more and more upstanding folks doing their best to make ends meet will face foreclosure, whether it is because of a relocation like ours, illness, job loss, etc.<br><br>
More and more of us are living close to the edge, and we no longer can sell our assets to make it through the tough times because our assets are actually worth less and there are fewer buyers.<br><br>
This is interesting: <a href="http://www.chrismartenson.com/crash-course" target="_blank">http://www.chrismartenson.com/crash-course</a> Inflation is a *huge* factor here. Fossil fuels are also huge factors here. An entirely faulty economic system may be a factor here.<br><br>
The people feeling the hits first are the most vulnerable, but I hope no one is too quick to judge because there is *no one* who is not going to really feel the pain of what is going on in the coming years. No one.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>moondiapers</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12362974"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I hope nothing unforseen ever happens to you so that you can't afford the home you buy, 4 years after you bought it. FTR, our unforseen circumstances were 3 surgeries and two car accidents and the medical bills that go with the car accidents.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> Oh mama that's horrible. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>moondiapers</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12362974"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I hope nothing unforseen ever happens to you so that you can't afford the home you buy, 4 years after you bought it.</div>
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Me too. In the case of the original poster, the situation was forseen. She signed on for an adjustable rate because she didn't qualifty for a traditional mortage and as predicted, the adjustable rate adjusted. She got just what she agreed to get.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>moondiapers</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12362974"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I hope nothing unforseen ever happens to you so that you can't afford the home you buy, 4 years after you bought it. FTR, our unforseen circumstances were 3 surgeries and two car accidents and the medical bills that go with the car accidents.</div>
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You edited your post after I posted my reply. I am now sympathethic, but still think you purchased a home you couldn't afford since you didn't qualify for a traditional mortage.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>KateKat</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12363038"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">You edited your post after I posted my reply. I am now sympathethic, but still think you purchased a home you couldn't afford since you didn't qualify for a traditional mortage.</div>
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We afforded it just fine untill our circumstances changed. We were shopping around for a traditional mortgage and would have qualified.....then dh was injured, needed surgery, and couldn't work for 6 months. I had 3 months worth of bills in savings. Then got 3 months behind on everything. Just as we pulled out of that, BAM 2 more surgeries, then car accidents and more medical bills.....just after dh's work switched to crappy health coverage. My point is that SH!T happens. I don't want a hand out......but seeing as there are so many ppl in similar circumstances that it's seriously affecting the economy.......it would be nice to get my mortgage to a managable payment instead of using my tax dollars to pay for 600K spa weekends for AIG management.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>moondiapers</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12363076"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">We afforded it just fine untill our circumstances changed.</div>
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According to your other post, you could afford it just fine until the interest rate adjusted. When it did, you no longer could. You signed on for an adjustable rate and took a gamble that you'd be able to refinance a fixed rate later down the line. There was never any guarantee that you'd be able to get a fixed rate loan. There was a guarantee that the adjustable interest rate would adjust.<br><br>
Note to be harsh, but with a recent bankruptcy you should have waited to buy a home until your credit cleaned up a bit and you qualified for a fixed rate.
 
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