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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't know if this is the place for this, but my dd is learning to write and about 50% of the time, she writes everything backwards. Not just a few letters, but completely backwards and from right to left, so that if you hold it up to the mirror it's perfect.<br><br>
Anyone else's dc do this?
 

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I don't know about 'normal', but I did the same thing until I was about 6. I'm left-handed, don't know if that had anything to do with it, you know, being strong in the right side of the brain and all that.<br><br>
Really, though, I don't know why it would be considered *not* normal, the whole left-to-right thing is so arbitrary. I'm sure your DD will eventually start writing the 'right' way, especially as she reads more and more and sees the way that text is generally laid out on the page.
 

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It's pretty common - especially for early writers. I don't think teachers worry until the child is in about 2nd grade -- and I think you've got a ways to go before then!<br><br>
Our dd (3.5) does this (she's just learning to write letters) but for her it's because she's left handed and it's just much easier to do it that way because you can see the way the letters go.
 

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My DS did this off and on through the beginning of 1st grade. I scanned one page of a "book" he wrote about Thomas (the tank engine) because it was so ... backwards....<br><br>
Everything I found and was told is that reversals and mirrors are not uncommon up to about 7, and nothing to worry about.
 

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I just read about this last night...letters and words are the only things humans need to have orientated correctly to recognise. Every other object we see is still a *insert name of object* no matter which way it is facing. This is how we can recognise that a dog is a dog is a dog even if it is facing another way. It is actually very important for us to *not* orientate things.<br>
Anyway she will work it out eventually.<br><br>
FTR the book is "Einstein never used flash cards" by Hirsch-Pasek, Golinkoff and Eyer. Fantastic read if you want to be reassured that your 'free-range' child is doing just fine <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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I started writing and reading at three and mirror wrote at the beginning.<br><br>
I did well at school, but I wouldn't say I am "normal" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">.
 

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Yes, this is developmentally appropriate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Phew! Thanks everyone!
 

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There is a better answer than that is normal......It is normal but can be a warning sign of something you need to watch. Remember total package. Waiting til second grades if she has more than one issue on this list can be very frustrating to children and instill a hate of learning.<br><br><a href="http://school.familyeducation.com/learning-disabilities/reading/42204.html" target="_blank">http://school.familyeducation.com/le...ing/42204.html</a><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">May talk later than most children<br>
May have difficulty pronouncing words, i.e., busgetti for spaghetti, mawn lower for lawn mower<br>
May be slow to add new vocabulary words<br>
May be unable to recall the right word<br>
May have difficulty with rhyming<br>
May have trouble learning the alphabet, numbers, days of the week, colors, shapes, how to spell and write his or her name<br>
May have trouble interacting with peers<br>
May be unable to follow multi-step directions or routines<br>
Fine motor skills may develop more slowly than in other children<br>
May have difficulty telling and/or retelling a story in the correct sequence<br>
Often has difficulty separating sounds in words and blending sounds to make words<br><br>
Children rarely exhibit all these signs, but children who have more than one or two of them should be evaluated for possible dyslexia. The good news is that children who are evaluated and given appropriate instruction early have the best chance of becoming successful readers and writers.</td>
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This is for DYSGRAPHIA!! Crazy writing style should have been a major tip off of my son's learning differences. Watch her write, grip, and teaching instruction. Lack of instructions can cause problems for kids (what the school my kids went to learned the hard way. They spent so much more money when they had no writing programs in K-2 than when they instated something. They caught kids with issues earlier and corrected bad habits earlier).<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><a href="http://www.dys-add.com/symptoms.html#preschool" target="_blank">http://www.dys-add.com/symptoms.html#preschool</a><br><br>
Unusual pencil grip, often with the thumb on top of the fingers (a "fist grip")<br><br>
Young children will often put their head down on the desk to watch the tip of the pencil as they write<br><br>
The pencil is gripped so tightly that the child's hand cramps. The child will frequently put the pencil down and shake out his/her hand.<br><br>
Writing is a slow, labored, non-automatic chore.<br><br>
Child writes letters with unusual starting and ending points.<br><br>
Child has great difficulty getting letters to "sit" on the horizontal lines.<br><br>
Copying off of the board is slow, painful, and tedious. Child looks up and visually "grabs" just one or two letters at a time, repeatedly subvocalizes the names of those letters, then stares intensely at their paper when writing those one or two letters. This process is repeated over and over. Child frequently loses his/her place when copying, misspells when copying, and doesn't always match capitalization or punctuation when copying—even those the child can read what was on the board.<br><br>
Unusual spatial organization of the page. Words may be widely spaced or tightly pushed together. Margins are often ignored.<br><br>
Child has an unusually difficult time learning cursive writing, and shows chronic confusion about similarly-formed cursive letters such as f and b, m and n, w and u. They will also difficulty remembering how to form capital cursive letters.</td>
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Marsupialmom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9928243"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">There is a better answer than that is normal......It is normal but can be a warning sign of something you need to watch. Remember total package. Waiting til second grades if she has more than one issue on this list can be very frustrating to children and instill a hate of learning.<br><br><a href="http://school.familyeducation.com/learning-disabilities/reading/42204.html" target="_blank">http://school.familyeducation.com/le...ing/42204.html</a><br><br><br><br>
This is for DYSGRAPHIA!! Crazy writing style should have been a major tip off of my son's learning differences. Watch her write, grip, and teaching instruction. Lack of instructions can cause problems for kids (what the school my kids went to learned the hard way. They spent so much more money when they had no writing programs in K-2 than when they instated something. They caught kids with issues earlier and corrected bad habits earlier).</div>
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Thank you, this is very interesting! I don't think she has any of the problems on the first list, she's a very verbal child with what seems to me to be a larger than average vocabulary. But she did hold her pencil/crayon with her fist until this summer. So I will keep an eye on all those things. Thanks for the links!
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>WeasleyMum</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9926095"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm left-handed, don't know if that had anything to do with it, you know, being strong in the right side of the brain and all that.</div>
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My left-handed dd still mirror writes some at 5.75, and my mil who has been a K/1st grade teacher for 30+ years, says she does see this more in left-handed children. They also have a harder time distinguishing b/d. I am left-handed and it was an issue for me as well.<br><br>
Like the pp said, in the absence of other problems it isn't an issue. Dd goes to a gifted school with an old school stickler of a kindergarten teacher, and I have never seen any comments on Ellie's work regarding this, even when entire sentences are backwards!
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Marsupialmom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9928243"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">There is a better answer than that is normal......It is normal but can be a warning sign of something you need to watch. Remember total package. Waiting til second grades if she has more than one issue on this list can be very frustrating to children and instill a hate of learning.</div>
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It totally depends on your child's age. At the end of Kindergarten, this would raise concerns. Reversing single letters/#s is quite developmental and not too much of a concern. Transposing letters/digits and/or mirror writing at that age may prompt testing to determine if it's just developmental still or a sign of a bigger issue.<br>
Good luck -- so many things for us to wonder about. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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My sister did this BUT she was much older than your child, however she is severely dyslexic, but one of the most talented artists I've ever seen she just can't read or write very well the way that we as 'normal' folk would recognise. Leonardo Da Vinci wrote like this as well - so it could be seen as a problem for some or an opening to a different wonderful talent to others - it depends how you look on it I suppose.
 

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I just asked a similar question in Learning at School about my 6 yr old writing her <i>numbers only</i> backwards. Apparently it's developmentally appropriate and as someone else pointed out, not a worry until the kids hit 2nd grade or so.
 

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My ds is left handed and the poor kid is "ADD", he has been writing backwards since he started writing. He is 6 now and in first grade and is still learning. While most of his words are from left to right now, on occasion he will still mess up and write his name backwards. He has had a real hard time this year with writing numbers backwards, and mixing up 12 and 21, 13 and 31.. and stuff like that.<br><br>
Im not sure how much of this is the so called "ADD" or him being left handed on top of focusing problems.... but he is not medicated either...
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Susuhound</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9926681"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I just read about this last night...letters and words are the only things humans need to have orientated correctly to recognise. Every other object we see is still a *insert name of object* no matter which way it is facing. This is how we can recognise that a dog is a dog is a dog even if it is facing another way. It is actually very important for us to *not* orientate things.<br>
Anyway she will work it out eventually.<br><br>
FTR the book is "Einstein never used flash cards" by Hirsch-Pasek, Golinkoff and Eyer. Fantastic read if you want to be reassured that your 'free-range' child is doing just fine <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"></div>
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this is interesting, I dont "teach" my kids at home because... i just dont.. is this what you mean?? Just kind of letting them be while they are of preschool age.. not drilling letters and numbers and writing into them before htey even start school?
 

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Interesting! I'm left handed and as far as I know never did this. My ds1 is right handed and did the mirror writing. I have his name written on his wall perfectly "backwards!" He doesn't do it anymore though. (I'm secretly sorry, it's very cool to make everything backwards IMO!) Dd1 is also right handed and has terrible trouble with b's and d's - reading and writing. I'm not too worried about it!
 

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My ds is 6.5 and in first grade. He just got diagnosed for dyslexia and his mirror-writing was used to support the diagnosis. He is also left-handed. For me, we were worried enough about it to get him evaluated because his he is well aware that the other children in his first grade write more easily as well as read at a higher level than he does, and not happy about it. Also, he is having a hard time with math because, for example, he writes a "6" when he meant "9". He also writes upside down and most significantly has a hard time decoding words. I was told by several professionals that although writing letters backward and upside down is developmentally appropriate through kindergarten and up to first grade, it should begin to disappear in first grade. I do think that kids develop sometimes not exactly on schedule. But the dyslexia was decided on after the doctor saw that in combination with how he did on specialized tests and how high his IQ is, his writing is more than 50 % of the time completely backward (mirror) and upside down.<br><br>
That's very interesting about the dysgraphia.<br><br>
If it doesn't bother your child you could wait.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ewe+lamb</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9930409"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My sister did this BUT she was much older than your child, however she is severely dyslexic, but one of the most talented artists I've ever seen she just can't read or write very well the way that we as 'normal' folk would recognise. Leonardo Da Vinci wrote like this as well - so it could be seen as a problem for some or an opening to a different wonderful talent to others - it depends how you look on it I suppose.</div>
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Ah, cool, thanks! I'm going to call it da Vinci-esque, from now on. Seriously, though, I've often thought she's a pretty talented artist, too. But I'm probably pretty biased, and I don't really know what other four year old art is like. She certainly is a <i>prolific</i> artist.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jempd</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9934891"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">If it doesn't bother your child you could wait.</div>
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Thanks for the info re dyslexia. It doesn't bother her at all, though. She's really into making cards for people, so most of the writing she does is on them. And since most of them are for me, Daddy, and her little brothers, we don't have to worry about not being able to read them.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue">
 

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My SS is 10, and he still writes certain letters backwards, like "z". It was worse when I met him (he was 6). His handwriting has improved a great deal since then, but it's still pretty bad, and he's definitely not one for writing, but he is however rated in the 99% for his age, in terms of giftedness. He does high level grade math and science, and has a very firm grasp of history (and military strategy thanks to DH!); I've never heard a child his age discuss the hows/whys of the Germans' failure to win WW2. He was "diagnosed" with learning disorders, but honestly, I think it's that children like him think so differently (and quickly) that they struggle to make time to learn the basic stuff.
 
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