I am not the mod of HB - haven't been for a while now. I will ask Adina to update the listing. MM there are links at the top of the main HB forum. If you're looking for more specific information a Google search or library books are a good way to start. If you'd like some input from the community, you are welcome to start a thread. If you need Mod support for something, you can PM any mod and they can help.
Hi there, thank you. Actually I am wondering why a certain poster is allowed to be here continually with the negative attitude that is continually brought to every home birth thread it seems. I am really sick of the negativity and anti-home birth attitude this poster continually has here. I have been coming to MDC for years for advice and support, although I don't always post I use the archives and search old threads for help and advice often. It seems this person has been posting for a long period of time and permeates nearly every home birth thread here with their crap. It seems this person walks the line following the rules just enough to stay but not enough to be kicked out.
Anyway that is what I wanted to ask about. Seems the home birth forum might benefit from some SUPPORT only rules much like the UA forum enjoys. Just a suggestion.
I can only assume that this "certain person" is me. If it's not, then feel free to ignore this.
I just wanted to clarify one point: I have nothing whatsoever against homebirth. I have a big problem with homebirths being supervised by people who are ignorant of the potential dangers that can arise in any birth setting. I have a big problem when people who don't know that babies need amniotic fluid invent a meaningless credential for themselves and trick women into thinking that they're actual professionals with an actual skill set. I have a big problem when people mock concerns about dangers because they don't understand them (one sometimes gets the impression that health care providers induce posdates moms because they don't believe that their bodies are capable of giving birth, not because the risk of bad outcomes for babies are massively increased when the pregnancy goes far past the due date).
And I have a HUGE problem when this ignorance directly leads to the death of a baby and those responsible respond by pretending it never happened.
I don't understand why it should be a "support only" thread. It has been a good place to discuss the good and bad about home birth. If women talk about being fully informed and educated about birth, they need to know both sides, not just the side they want to hear. I really worry about women who are so delicate in their beliefs that they can't hear the possibility that it isn't all rainbows and unicorns.
My understanding is that you need only to have had a home birth or to be in support of them to post to these threads. In case anyone is wondering, I have had a homebirth, and I am a home birth midwife. I want women to understand all sides so they can make the safest possible decision.
appalled20, you assume a lot and often from what I have read here. For you to pick out immediately that I was talking about you just emphasizes what I am accusing you of is actually happening, it isn't my imagination. Defensive much? If your intentions were true to heart you wouldn't be. If you TRULY supported home birth your posts would not all have something negative to say about it. Other than you CONSTANTLY saying you have nothing against home birth, every post here has been negative. You always continue that statement with a "but". Do you know what but really means? But is the big eraser. But means: Forget what I just said THIS is what I really mean. You type out of both sides of your mouth. Obviously you knew exactly why I wanted a mod to contact me thus your 1st post in this thread, makes me wonder if this has been brought up about you before now?
I agree with facts. I agree with information and knowing all sides. I agree with being informed. I feel that happens here without fear mongering and being on a crusade AGAINST home birth, which is what I feel appalled20 is doing. And SAYING you have nothing against home birth and then only posting negative things about it are two TOTALLY different things. A person can say all day long they support a thing, or have nothing against a thing, all the while talking out of the other side of their mouth proving just the opposite.
Assuming women don't have the intelligence to do their own research and make their own informed choices without these negative posts combating home birth is insulting. These women don't need you to bring the ugliest side of a thing to their attention in order to be "informed". Do you run around telling women you meet in the grocery store planning a hospital birth all the bad things that could happen to them at the hands of their OB in your "sincere" crusade for fully informed mama's?
Some of the onus for the responsibility of your OWN care lies with mothers as well. Blaming everything on midwives or OBGYN's when you have a mouth and should be advocating for yourself is crap.
I have had 2 home births. I researched and made my own choices. That was MY responsibility. I am the only person completely responsible for me. If I sit around avoiding my gut instinct and closing my mouth when I could have been advocating for myself and something bad happens some of that is on me.
Mothercat, I don't think it is a matter of being "delicate" in beliefs, but as a midwife you know that fear effects labor and birth. There is a big difference between information based in fact and information that is at one far end of the spectrum used simply to scare people out of a thing. Surely when you talk to your clients you don't show them the one midwife out of thousands that lost a baby last week (whether she was negligent or not) and say, "Are you sure you want me to deliver your baby, cause ya know, this could happen??" There is a difference in what COULD happen and what normally does happen. For every nightmare midwife story there are just as many horrid OB/hospital stories. Part of the reason I chose home birth so many years ago was because I met a woman who delivered a still born due to OB negligence. She was suing for malpractice. The fear mongering stories are available on both sides....both sides could scare each other all day long. What matters is where a mama feels comfortable, what she wants, and can have within a reasonable scope taking into consideration her circumstances, that includes researching who you pick for your care, that responsibility is on the mama. I don't necessarily think it should be support only with a fierce conviction, but I do think someone should stand up for what MOTHERING has stood up for for the last 30+ years and protect this place of support and information from posters like appalled. If that can't be done, then maybe support only is an option.
I am no Pollyanna, I know complications happen, I know birth is not always perfect and pretty, and I don't see the majority of women coming to this forum feeling any different than that. They come looking for information that is valid, real women experiences, and support, but I find this is being undermined here. Just like I wouldn't go to a mainstream site like babycenter.com and post all kinds of horror stories about OB's and hospital births, I wouldn't go to the breastfeeding forum and post the new study that was done that concluded that breastfeeding has no long term benefits for kids, just to stir the pot. I feel it would be combative and missing the point of the forum, (support) and that is what I feel you are doing appalled20.
I truly feel appalled20 is a mannerly troll who colors just enough inside the lines so they can post here undermining and crusading against home birth all the while saying they support a woman's right to choose the birth she wants when it is abundantly clear they don't.
I assumed you were talking about me because I happened to see you read my last thread, not respond to it, and then post this.
All of this reminds me of what happened on Jan Tritten and Midwifery Today's Facebook pages . A lot of people, including both hardcore homebirth supporters and opponents, were horrified to witness a baby dying in real time due to horrible, ignorant advice from people whose job it is to know about pregnancy. But then a small group of radicals started complaining about "negativity" and accusing dissenters of being condescending "trolls."
Then posts started to disappear and posters were banned. Then the already censored discussions started to disappear, as if it had never happened, as if some poor woman hadn't just come home with a cesarean scar but without a baby.
This is a homebirth forum. Home birth just means birth at home. I can support that idea without agreeing that it should be attended by people who are ignorant, incompetent, and grossly unethical and without buying into a bunch of facially absurd slogans about how childbirth is inherently safe, or how "babies will come out when they're ready, that breech is just a "variation of normal." Again, other countries have made this work without accepting the idea that someone with CPM-level training has any business delivering footling breeches in a living room.
One of the things that disturbed me most about the recent tragedy is that the midwife involved wasn't some kind of fringe radical. She participated in a lot of discussions on another website and it's clear that she truly believed that she was being safe and responsible. She took neonatal resuscitation classes. She had a backup OB. And yet she accepted all of those repeated false slogans. And it cost a baby his life.
Things need to change and they need to change now. Calling people trolls and accusing them of "negativity" when they've just seen a baby die due to the sort of ignorance and stupidity that passes for "wisdom" in some circles isn't going to help things.
middlemama - I share your concerns about the integrity of the forum as do our moderators.
Posting in the homebirth forum to raise issues of concern about homebirth practices is perfectly appropriate - for members of the community who are active advocates for and practicing or actively supporting homebirth themselves. If you post in this forum to raise an issue about homebirth without having an established participation here as a member who advocates, supports and encourages homebirth then your post is not appropriate here.
I'm going to review the posting behavior in question and see what can be done to resolve the concerns. But let's not resort to namecalling, which is not acceptable in any discussion on Mothering,
I appreciate you looking into this Cynthia. For what it is worth I was not using the word troll in any other way than to refer to the very same behavior that the MDC forum rules do under the subheading "TROLLING". I used the word to describe the posting behavior not to childishly call names.
Well that is why I originally brought this to light. I have been coming to MDC for 13 years through 3 pregnancies and children. I had been gone a long while as I was between the young years of #2's childhood and this pregnancy and just had drifted away. I came back a few months ago as I was pregnant with #3 and was SO SO SO SAD to see the lack of posting here from the HB community as well as this general negativity about it in many of the threads. It was honestly depressing because this had always been a great place to commune and share and talk amongst those like minded individuals that shared my ideals and thoughts about birth. It made me long for the days I curled up with my paper Mothering magazine and read it cover to cover feeling as if I had a friend. Did the forum change when the magazine left and went totally online?
I think it would be nice to have both. A general home birth section where active debate could take place and then a private forum for support only. I really like the fact that there is no more censorship in the home birth area. I was a CPM student and pregnant when I first started coming here. I saw many emergencies as student and really felt that I needed a place to put these experiences into context. Unfortunately, every time a thread was posted highlighting a negative outcome it was soon erased. There was no room for debate. I really like my position on home birth to be challenged. It helps me think critically about many issues.
On the flip side, when I was pregnant with my other two I just wanted a place for support. It would be nice to have a forum devoted to those in favor of home birth.
Agreed. I think the vax section of MDC has a pretty good layout in this regard--support when we need each it, and debate to challenge our thinking. I'm pretty active in the debate and support sections of the vax forum. If I want to know about an alternative vaccine schedule, I don't want anyone pouncing on me about how I should vax on schedule or not vax at all. It's a similar deal for homebirth. On the other hand, vigorous debate, if channeled the right way and treated as a learning experience, can help in efforts to improve maternity care.
What I'm sensitive to is a double-standard mentality that I've heard elsewhere: If it's one of Dr. Amy's Facebook groups, (as just one example), it's a haven for like-minded individuals to share ideas on maternity care and related issues. But if it's MDC, by golly, it's an "echo chamber" for women with a "cult following" to engage in "groupthink."
Support is support, whether or not you share other peoples' views. There's a time for support, and a time for debate.