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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I never like to see any child sick and I feel for this mother dealing with her sick child. With that said, however, her message is very misguided. The child had his first pertussis vaccine. In addition, is she aware of the large amounts of whooping cough outbreaks among the vaccinated, or that the vaccine doesn't promote the concept of herd immunity that one would think?

Is it appropriate for her to misdirect her anger when there is a very good chance the child caught the illness from a vaccinated individual?

http://www.today.com/parents/mom-urges-vaccination-video-baby-whooping-cough-t56436
 

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She should forward a copy of her video to Congress and vaccine manufacturers. Last I heard, despite all of the pleas for something more effective, there is no new pertussis vaccine in development. This attitude of blame-shifting the problem onto a scant non-vax minority is getting tiresome.
 

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It seems the majority of new stories about this have edited one interesting statement of hers that stood out to me.

'I don't care whether you want to try and prove to me that vaccinations and herd immunities don't work. I don't care that vaccinations have side effects, because every person in this world reacts differently to all types of food, products and medicines. I could not care less, even if it is ever proven one day that they don't work.'
Is it just me or is this quite a strange thing to say? She must have been terrified, I'm sure. I guess this statement comes from a place of helplessness? It just seemed to weird to me. I mean, I can see where she comes from as a Pro-vaxxer, someone's kid will have side effects from vaccines and be injured or die, but she doesn't care about that kid, just her own, which isn't selfish, because that's exactly how I feel about not vaccinating mine.

I wonder if vitamin C was ever tried?
 

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It is an interesting double standard. You're selfish for forgoing one or more vaccines, but not selfish when you demand that everyone around you is vaccinated despite getting vaccine reactions. The latter never happens, by the way. Ever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
It seems the majority of new stories about this have edited one interesting statement of hers that stood out to me.



Is it just me or is this quite a strange thing to say? She must have been terrified, I'm sure. I guess this statement comes from a place of helplessness? It just seemed to weird to me. I mean, I can see where she comes from as a Pro-vaxxer, someone's kid will have side effects from vaccines and be injured or die, but she doesn't care about that kid, just her own, which isn't selfish, because that's exactly how I feel about not vaccinating mine.

I wonder if vitamin C was ever tried?
Yeah, it's odd to me too. I found several of her statements quite odd. I don't know how old she is but she sounds rather young the way she speaks, not quite being able to articulate in the way she is intending I suppose. It appears she doesn't know much about vaccines.

Why you would "not care less" if vaccines are proven to have never worked is really a silly statement to make. Absurd actually.
 

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I think it's so she can say that at least she did something, even if the vaccines don't work very well or even not at all, at least she tried to protect her child, whereas she sees people who don't vaccinate as not even bothering to try keeping their kids safe. It's sad if that is indeed her view, as I consider my not vaccinating as doing exactly that. It must be hard to see the other side of things when you're so mad/scared.
 

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She should forward a copy of her video to Congress and vaccine manufacturers. Last I heard, despite all of the pleas for something more effective, there is no new pertussis vaccine in development. This attitude of blame-shifting the problem onto a scant non-vax minority is getting tiresome.
See, this is what I don't understand. I just can't fathom why more parents are not putting the same venom and anger towards the manufacturers who do not seem to have an adequate option in the works for when the effectiveness of the current pertussis vaccine starts to rival the worst results of the flu vaccine during some years.

I mean, look at Connie Lam and Ruiting Lan's work. Almost 80% of the strains identified in 2012 were pertactin-free. And that increase happened over a short period...they went from 5% pertactin-free in 2008 to 78% by 2012 in response to the aP vaccine. It's been three years since that study. What is the figure at now, considering the pressure on pregnant women and family members to get their Tdap boosters?
 

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See, this is what I don't understand. I just can't fathom why more parents are not putting the same venom and anger towards the manufacturers who do not seem to have an adequate option in the works for when the effectiveness of the current pertussis vaccine starts to rival the worst results of the flu vaccine during some years.

I mean, look at Connie Lam and Ruiting Lan's work. Almost 80% of the strains identified in 2012 were pertactin-free. And that increase happened over a short period...they went from 5% pertactin-free in 2008 to 78% by 2012 in response to the aP vaccine. It's been three years since that study. What is the figure at now, considering the pressure on pregnant women and family members to get their Tdap boosters?
This is the cleverness of the people behind vaccine programs. By putting the blame for vaccine failure on those who turn down the vaccine rather than on those who run a system that produces and pushes ineffective vaccines they get off more or less scott free (who was scott, by the way?).

It is like blaming people who take public transportation for car accidents. Well, not quite, but close.
 

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It's not who but what.

The "Scot" in Scot-free derives from the Scandinavian for Skat (Denmark), Skatt (Sweden, Norway), Skattur (Iceland) which means "tax".
Now that makes sense.
Death and taxes...
 

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She should forward a copy of her video to Congress and vaccine manufacturers. Last I heard, despite all of the pleas for something more effective, there is no new pertussis vaccine in development. This attitude of blame-shifting the problem onto a scant non-vax minority is getting tiresome.
Tiresome, but effective. It's easier to burn skeptics when there are outbreaks. Particularly with most of the public and media's purposeful blindness of the effectiveness of the vaccine.
 

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It seems the majority of new stories about this have edited one interesting statement of hers that stood out to me.



Is it just me or is this quite a strange thing to say? She must have been terrified, I'm sure. I guess this statement comes from a place of helplessness? It just seemed to weird to me. I mean, I can see where she comes from as a Pro-vaxxer, someone's kid will have side effects from vaccines and be injured or die, but she doesn't care about that kid, just her own, which isn't selfish, because that's exactly how I feel about not vaccinating mine.

I wonder if vitamin C was ever tried?
That kind of seems like the basic mission statement of a weird number of people who I know that vaccinate. There is more fear of being called antivax than there is of anything else. But I think you are right, there is a sense that not vaccinating is leaving one's child in a wilderness to fend off wolves on their own. It's the magic pill syndrome - let's try all methods just to be on the safe side. Something will fix the problem and if not, just try it anyway. It is a psychological relief to a significant amount of people. Others of course believe that vaccines do as they are touted and trust that.

I think there is a dark shadow of doubt in many people's minds that they willfully ignore because the possible alternative is too dire. I know a lot of young moms and of the people who discuss vaccination with me and who vaccinate, they have openly brought up inconsistencies, strange things, about certain "situations" regarding vaccination, such as schools being fully vaccinated having outbreaks, etc.
 

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To me it is sort of like trying to do a home birth if you really do feel safer in the hospital. If the diseases really terrify someone, if they really feel helpless and unable to protect their baby or child, then vaccinating is probably the best choice, simply to relieve the emotional and mental stress of having an "unprotected" kid.

Just as for someone who feels that vaccines are very risky, the stress of vaxing would be unbearable.

Our belief system has something to do with our ability to cope.
 

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Where this goes wrong is when people become convinced that beyond their own choice to vax or not, or to have a baby in the hospital or at home, that they have to push other people to agree with them and act the same way--that is inappropriate.

To feel that you have to force someone who is terrified of skipping vaccines to not vaccinate, or to force someone who is terrified of vaccines to vaccinate is to overstep the line of respecting someone else's space.

Which is why the forced vaccination crew is always claiming that they aren't actually forcing anyone.
 

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Our belief system has something to do with our ability to cope.
"That's a horrible way to die" comes up in some provax posts enough to make it noticeable. Other than dying in one's sleep, I imagine the majority of deaths are horrible. Alas, "no one here gets out alive".

If someone is so fearful of death that they are willing to subject themselves and their loved ones to anything and everything recommended by someone in a white coat or governing body, is it fair for them to make decisions for the rest of humanity? It strikes me that the "skeptics" that profess to having zero spirituality/faith/religion seem to equate years lived to value of life. And we see this when very ill children are taken by the state/medical complex when a parent/child decides that the child has suffered enough under the allopathic treatment and want to stop it or try something else. The authorities claim it is in the best interest of the child, but really it's just a reflection of their own belief system. How could there be any value in stripping away their autonomy and prolonging their misery with meds that are not working or making them so ill they want to die? (I am not talking about assisted suicide here either; just the right to say enough or no thanks.)
 

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It strikes me that the "skeptics" that profess to having zero spirituality/faith/religion seem to equate years lived to value of life.
This is true and insightful. Most Joe and Jane Pro-Vaxxers don't fall into this camp. But any sort of fundamentalism--religious, anti-theistic, medical, etc.--is about trying to gain control in a reality that largely lacks it. Imposing theocracy, prohibiting religious expression and practices, (e.g. minarets in Switzerland, burkas in France), screaming "medical neglect" at every disobedient parent, and forced vax policies are all part of this continuum. There's only one right, black and white way to do things, and that is to be imposed on all. Historians often note that these movements are strongest in times of economic and/or cultural unrest; there's a desperate scramble to establish [the illusion of] security in an insecure world.

In this book, (obviously controversial based on its diverse ratings), the author identifies one of the defining features of fundamentalism as a having a specific and mythically impossible Utopia as a goal. Everybody believes X or practices Y. Or everybody is vaxxed to the max, and all infectious disease has disappeared for good.
 

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"That's a horrible way to die" comes up in some provax posts enough to make it noticeable. Other than dying in one's sleep, I imagine the majority of deaths are horrible. Alas, "no one here gets out alive".

If someone is so fearful of death that they are willing to subject themselves and their loved ones to anything and everything recommended by someone in a white coat or governing body, is it fair for them to make decisions for the rest of humanity? It strikes me that the "skeptics" that profess to having zero spirituality/faith/religion seem to equate years lived to value of life. And we see this when very ill children are taken by the state/medical complex when a parent/child decides that the child has suffered enough under the allopathic treatment and want to stop it or try something else. The authorities claim it is in the best interest of the child, but really it's just a reflection of their own belief system. How could there be any value in stripping away their autonomy and prolonging their misery with meds that are not working or making them so ill they want to die? (I am not talking about assisted suicide here either; just the right to say enough or no thanks.)
A Very Easy Death by Simone de Beauvior. Everything is all about prolonging life rather than the quality. I agree, I think many people believe doing everything is better than trying one thing or doing nothing. I never thought of this as through a political lens,... but I would say the people I know who think less may be better tend to be really old.
 

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"That's a horrible way to die" comes up in some provax posts enough to make it noticeable. Other than dying in one's sleep, I imagine the majority of deaths are horrible. Alas, "no one here gets out alive".

If someone is so fearful of death that they are willing to subject themselves and their loved ones to anything and everything recommended by someone in a white coat or governing body, is it fair for them to make decisions for the rest of humanity? It strikes me that the "skeptics" that profess to having zero spirituality/faith/religion seem to equate years lived to value of life. And we see this when very ill children are taken by the state/medical complex when a parent/child decides that the child has suffered enough under the allopathic treatment and want to stop it or try something else. The authorities claim it is in the best interest of the child, but really it's just a reflection of their own belief system. How could there be any value in stripping away their autonomy and prolonging their misery with meds that are not working or making them so ill they want to die? (I am not talking about assisted suicide here either; just the right to say enough or no thanks.)
Or the reverse, when long stretches of miserable illness following HPV vaccine are dismissed as insignificant because the vaccine will save lives...
 
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