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Discussion Starter #1
You know, I have read a lot of books, AP and not AP (although never Ezzo- ewww!) in an effort to get my dc to sleep better. But at almost 4, he STILL is waking 4-6 times at night more often than sleepng through.<br><br>
This is a list of things recommended to selp him sleep better that never worked for me:<br><br>
1) Routine Every time I would find a bedtime routine that seemed to work, my ds would turn the tables on me and it would not work anymore.<br><br><b>Earlier bedtime</b> Hah! The earlier he goes to bed, the more frequent the night wakings.<br><br><b>Nightweaning</b> Don't I wish! Even on the rare nights I don't nurse him back to sleep, he still wakes up and has to be comforted back to sleep somehow (backrubs, singing, pacing up and down).<br><br><b>Creating new sleep associations</b> This has only worked a couple times. He still wants the boob and he still wants Mama when he (partially) wakes.<br><br><b>They will learn how to self soothe</b> Right, I have been waiting for this to happen for almost 4 years. If I don't attend to my ds at night the whineing and moaning just gets louder and louder until my dh storms in and the neighbors complain to my landlords.<br><br><b>Sleep maturity</b> Just when is this elusive sleep maturity supposed to happen? My ds still wakes sometimes every hour. A good night is when he lets me sleep 2-4 hours before the night waking begins.<br><br>
So, there is my sorry a$$ predicament (sigh). Sorry for any ranting, but 4 years of sleep deprivation can tend to make you cranky. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/gloomy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Gloomy">:<br><br>
I'd like to hear your situations, if anyone would like a chance to tell them.
 

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i dont have any advice but was flipping through NCSS for toddlers and what you describe sounds like what might actually be a sleep disorder.<br><br><br>
what about asthma or some other breathing thing? sometimes a fan on low will create enough white noise and move the air around enough to create a better environment.
 

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I don't know either, this sounds familiar (though mine is 2yo) but I was thinking that calcium is good for sleep so maybe it would help to have some before bed. There is a great product called A to B Calm that is a calcium/mag powder, very absorbable, you can mix a little into some chamomile tea at night and it is very calming and sleep promoting. It did wonders for my insomnia during pregnancy. Maybe it would help your little one. Come to think of it I'm going to try it for my dd! Good luck, hope you can get some sleep soon.
 

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Honestly? Time is about the only thing that *has* worked for us. My oldest,who's 4,is now a "good" sleeper,meaning he sleeps thru the night. My 2.5 yr old is *just now* starting to improve on sleeping longer stretches,except the past few nights cause he's sick,but that's to be expected. Even without nightweaning him yet,he is starting to sleep alot longer stretches. And he is a very light sleeper,has been since he was born. He was,like I said up until very recently,waking all night long.
 

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The Pantley pull-off does not work for me.<br>
Putting a pillow or other mom-smelling object next to sleeping child so I could slip away does not work for me.<br>
Pretty much all the advice I've heard/read does not work for my super-crappy sleeper.
 

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I am in teh process of contacting a sleep center about seeing a specialist.<br><br>
I have tried everything save CIO<br><br>
NCSS is BS -- and that is my nice anser. ask me how i really feel.<br><br>
it is all the holier than thou sleep books that say ... oh a little routine, a new sleep buddy and BOOM there you go.. that make our life harder.<br><br>
as if we are at fault for our children not sleeping.<br><br>
my son is 17 months old and has sept 3+ hours 3 times in his whole life.......i remember each of them <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> he generally wakes every hour, if we are having a bad night it is every 45 minutes and takes 2+ hours to go back to sleep.<br><br><span>bedtime</span> has no effect on over night lseep -- all it effects is how long the first going to sleep taks, and how many meltdowns we have before we go.<br><br><span>nightweaning</span> is a joke -- he wakes without asking to nurse 2 or 3 times pre one time he does wwant to nurse, the one time i tried Dr Jays night wean -- he screamed franticly for 2 hours of rocking and singing and wlaking and cuddles and so on -- and went into a panic took 3 days to get sleep back to our noramlly bad level.<br><br><span>sleep buddy / assocation</span> -- he has a puppy -- he will throw it off the bed to get to me at night then call for it in the morning.<br><br><span>maturity / self -soothing</span>........ i keep waiting. if i do not rub his back, shhhhhh and work to get him back to sleep he sits up, climbs on me and tries to start the day -- be it 11 pm, 2 am or 4 am......he will not put himself back to slep no mate how tired. seesm to me at 17.5 month he should be mature enough to sleep more than 2 hours on a normal basics and usally he sleep sless than that.<br><br><span>white noise</span> -- helps a little -- in the going back to sleep when he wakes (cuz he can't hear DH) butttttttttt it does nothing for sleeping longer.<br><br><br>
a very tired momma
 

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no food issues here.<br><br>
no change in sleep no matter what my diet (we did elim diet for GER)<br><br>
no reaction to any interduced food<br><br>
no other symptoms of food allergy<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
if it was only that easy --<br><br>
A
 

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No advice but thank God I'm not alone. I was begining to think I was doing something wrong... Maybe I just have a crappy sleeper!<br><br>
Kristi
 

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Amen, amen, amen! We could have a sizable college fund for my 18 mo. daughter with all the cash I've shelled out for sleeping books!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:<br><br>
My latest brainstorm is the pure sheer physical exhaustion technique, and it is getting me better naps. (Nightime, and getting her out of our bed, is a whole 'nother project, one I can't even contemplate at this current point of sleep deprivation).<br><br>
Basically, I run her ragged (outside, fresh air, playgrounds, etc.) all<br>
morning, stuff some lunch in her, and then drive her in the car listening to one particular song on one of her soundtracks until she conks out. If the transfer into the house is done very carefully, I've been getting solid two hour naps with the white noise machine set to "ocean waves".
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I don't believe my ds has any food allegies - wouldn't there be other symptoms besides crappy sleeping? I am getting an expensive air purifier from Sharper Image to see if any airbourne allergens could be the culprit. Although he usually does great for naps, sometimes sleeps too long (3 or more hours <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: ) and is then up until after midnight - and naps in the same room he sleeps in at night.<br><br>
I would love to get a sleep study done, but I don't have the money (my insurance has a $2,000 hospital co-pay <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: ). If anybody knows of anyone doing sleep research in the Norhteast US that needs voluteers - I'd love to get my ds signed up!<br><br>
I am going to try and night wean (because I can't stand nursing him at night anymore) but it is not easy (been trying to not nurse at all but when you are exhausted, at your wits end, and wondering if you are going to fall asleep at the wheel in the morning you get desperate sometimes).<br><br>
I am beginning to think that my ds is just immature for his age withe sleeping, just like he is dealyed with other things like speaking (he is a year behind).
 

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Sounds like a dietary thing to me. You don't always notice by doing an elimination diet. Sometimes the *allery* symptoms do not show up in recognizable forms either.<br><br>
You can read our story of sleeplessness in my siggy.
 

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Things we've tried that didn't work? That list is too long. Easier to list the thing we haven't tried: CIO.<br><br>
Some nights I think there is seriously something wrong with our 16mo DS and I wrack my brains trying to think of what kind of doctor or whatever could diagnose and help our situation. There's a possibility that DS has ADD (it runs pretty strongly in his paternal line) and I've heard that ADD/ADHD kids tend to be bad sleepers from the start.<br><br>
Of course, knowing this is a possibility still doesn't get me any more sleep.<br><br>
For us, a good night is 6-7 wakings. A bad night is 12 or more. This is no 12-hour night, either...I'm talking 9 or 10 hours. That's right, we often have more wakings than we have hours of sleep.<br><br>
I have mainstream friends who sleep-trained at 4 months, whose kids sleep from 7pm to 7am, every night. Sounds great, right? If it didn't involve breaking their spirit, I'd be all for it.<br><br>
Nice to know I'm not alone.
 

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In the midst of it there is no end. I was there for three years and in recovery for two...perhaps at 5 and a half we are there. DS slept for six hours straight at age 3. Before that 2 hours was a long time. I too tried everything until I gave in to time. At Christmas we put his fish tank in his room and now he sleeps there until about 4 in the morning. Hugs to everyone going through it. No answers. I think it would have taken a lot to CIO with ds and would have broken me more than the sleep deprivation.
 

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Hi there....I too have verrrrry bad sleepers. I noticed in one of your posts that you said your son still takes naps. My DS1 did not start sleeping better at night until he no longer took naps during the day. I thought that he would initiate when he no longer needed naps, but some days he would want to and other days he would kind of fight it. So, I decided to *assist* him in giving up his naps.<br><br>
It wasn't always easy, because he would get tired some days. I planned all my errands for morning trips and stayed home during the afternoon (because he would fall asleep in the car), so that I could make sure to interact with him and change activities if he seemed to be getting sleepy. It really helped though. It was like he was just more ready for sleep at night. Don't get me wrong - he *still* wakes up at night, but settles much easier and usually goes down pretty quick at first.<br><br>
And after a few weeks, it was a very natural process for him and he recognized too that he no longer needed the naps. I know its not easy as a parent because we depend on those naps for downtime too, but we also need sleep at night! And I know everything says "better daytime sleep = better nighttime sleep", but that was absolutely not the case with us. Eliminating the daytime sleep completely was the only thing that worked. Even now, if DS1 falls asleep in the car for even 5 minutes in the afternoon, it will take an extra 30 minutes to an hour to get him to fall asleep that night!<br><br>
Anyway, don't know if that will help your situation, but I know how frustrating it is to have children who have trouble sleeping. Hang in there mama!
 

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I found that my daughter was sensitive to electromagnetic frequencies transmitted by cell towers.<br><br>
How did I conclude this? She was completely nocturnal unless we were out of cell range. Then and only then did she sleep normally.<br><br>
There is information outlining how the EMFs interfere with melatonin production and subsequentially sleep patterns.<br><br>
I purchased a shielding device covering a 50 sq.ft. radius in our house. She did not sleep at night without it until she was 6.<br><br>
Couldn't hurt for some of you to test this out. Take a mini vacation out of cell range and see what happens....<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/duck.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Duck">:
 

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No Cry Sleep Solution...has that ever fully worked for anyone??? I mean, actually got your kid to sleep through the night? I don't totally hate it, because it was a partial sucess for us...took us from about 10 night wakings to 4-5. But then it just stalled out.<br><br>
Nightweaning definitely didn't work. Oh, I got a little more sleep... because dh was the one rocking and bouncing and shushing for hours. But ds? Nope.<br><br>
A really modified CIO when he was about 2 got him to learn to put himself to sleep at bedtime, but didn't change nightwakings. The noises he would come up with to see if we'd come get him were pretty entertaining though. I generally don't recommend CIO, but we knew him and his temperment and he treated the whole thing like a game. On the rare occasion he started to really cry, we went to him immediately. Sensitive dd? Oh geez, that NEVER would have worked, never would have tried it, or she'd still be glued to our legs to this day.<br><br>
The only thing that eventually helped was time, and a big boy bed, with a baby gate across the door to his room. That way if he got up, he could get down and play with a toy until he felt sleepy again. Unfortunately, at 5, he's now figured out the gate and comes to join us. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> Have I mentioned he's very tall and likes to sleep sideways across the bed? Ohhhh my back.....
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> I couldn't read and not respond, but my DD (she is 2 now) ended up having a milk allergy. Once that was determined, she slept.<br>
Now, DS2 is 9 months old and has asthma. He was just diagnosed last week after we switched dr's. He was sleeping so wonderfully until he was 5 months old. Then he kept getting sick with bronchitis and between the boughts of that he would wheeze even when not sick and the sleep issues started the 1st time he got sick. He's now on Flovent and is starting to sleep SO much better!<br>
My niece and nephew also have respiratory problems with allergies (one has environmental the other is food) and asthma.<br><br>
This may not be the case, but it's worth having it checked out by your Ped. I was reading about childhood asthma last night and there are so many children that go undiagnosed because they don't present typical symptoms.<br><br>
Another thing- caffiene intake! There are so many foods that contain caffiene. DS1 was such a crappy sleeper until he was 3 years old. We eliminated ALL caffiene and a majority of his sugar (even though he never got much sugar from us) and he started sleeping and not fighting us at night. He was the WORST sleeper!<br>
I was so sleep deprived with him I once answered the door wearing a bra and lounge pants!
 

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We've only been at this for a year, but we've tried the following:<br><br>
Put to bed in crib: She'd still wake up after an hour and need to nurse again. Then she'd wake up again an hour or 2 later, so I'd just bring her to bed.<br><br>
Swaddling: Doesn't keep her from waking up, but does keep her from kicking herself into a more awake state when she does.<br><br>
Music: We bought a stereo for the bedroom so we could play some sleep-inducing music all night. Didn't do a thing for dd, but ddrove dh crazy.<br><br>
More/Less naps: I see no correlation between napping and nighttime sleeping in a given day. Once her naps generally improved, so did her nighttime sleep, but that was just a matter of waiting through the tougher phases.<br><br>
Pacifier: Keeping one handy or having her try to fall asleep with one didn't help at all.<br><br>
PPO: We do it, but it doesn't change her sleeping patterns.<br><br>
I really think now that it is beyond my control. I'll probably nightwean this summer, but I'm not getting my hopes up about dramatically better sleep. In the summer we sleep with fans on--I wonder if that will effect anything?
 

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Our DD has severe food allergies and severe silent reflux. Nothing has worked. We never tried CIO and we just gave up about 2 months ago because it was driving us crazy. She can go 15 - 16 hour days and maybe nap 20 min....then wake up every few hours at night. I know the food allergies are a huge part of it but she seems settled now but she has never learned *how* to go to sleep. Some nights we have to drive her around as that and feeding is the only ways she can go to sleep. Other nights, when we were truly desperate, we would watch tv with her till we all just fell asleep together on the couch <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/duck.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Duck">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/gloomy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Gloomy">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> Not our proudest moment but we were getting maybe 2 hours sleep a night. I almost fell asleep at the wheel with both my kids in the car and could have killed us all. I knew then we had to figure out something.<br><br><br>
Never bought the NCSS. And Dr. Sears didn't work for us either (dissapointing because that worked great with our DS).<br><br>
No advice, just sympathy....
 
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