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The Associated Press has picked up the news that our rights to give birth as we choose are under attack.<br><br>
This article descibes a woman whose Dr. sued to force her to have ceasarean surgery because he thought her baby was "too big".<br><a href="http://www.sltrib.com/2004/May/05202004/nation_w/168222.asp" target="_blank">http://www.sltrib.com/2004/May/05202...n_w/168222.asp</a><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">"My impression is that we have a political culture right now that falsely pits fetal rights against women's rights, and that you are seeing a kind of snowballing effect," said Lynn Paltrow, of the New York-based group National Advocates for Pregnant Women.</td>
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That's my impression, too. I believe that this current attack against the human rights of pregnant women is a direct outcome of an extremist anti-abortion/fetal rights movement that seeks to give a fetus rights that take priority over those of pregnant women.<br><br>
I'm especially upset by these incidents because I myself went against the Drs advice when I was pregnant and wish that I had resisted even further. I'm just horrified to think what these women are going through.<br><br>
--AmyB
 

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It's all about profit and power. But that is the theme of the Bush administration and they have fostered the climate in which this type of thing has taken root and flourished.<br><br>
(I think they see us all as "Eve".)<br><br>
But this isn't just a single issue. It is connected to all the other ones. It's all connected.<br><br>
This is just a part of why we must get rid of the Bush administration.<br><br>
Register and vote.<br><br>
Joyce in the mts.
 

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This kind of stuff just makes me more and more anxious or should I saw scared! How can anyone tell us what to do with our bodies or our kids (like mandatory vax)? There is just such a fine line between protecting kids and taking away a parents' right to parent as they see fit. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"><br><br>
confused.
 

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I don't think this has anything to do with the fetal rights issue ONE BIT.<br><br>
It's about covering your butt. It's about law suits, soaring malpractice insurance rates, etc. Not to mention a whole load of ignorance still floating around the OB community.<br><br>
I wish it was about concern for the baby, but it's not.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Piglet68</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't think this has anything to do with the fetal rights issue ONE BIT.<br><br>
It's about covering your butt. It's about law suits, soaring malpractice insurance rates, etc. Not to mention a whole load of ignorance still floating around the OB community.<br><br>
I wish it was about concern for the baby, but it's not.</div>
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ITA with this statement.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>the sunshine</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And the Republican party is all about less government interference. Go figure.</div>
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This article didn't say anything about the Republican party. It's the hospital suing her.
 

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i just signed on to post a thread about this article. . . . its scary.
 

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The Bush administration is influencing the health and wellbeing of everyone- and specifically women around the world and at home. If you don't think that the CORPORATIONS- including the pharaceutical, med/tech, and insurance industries, that helped put Bush in office by donating millions and millions of dollars in both 2000 and in this elections cycle, are not influencing health care in general and maternity care specifically; that this access to policy is not payback for their support, through policies coming to bear- that we see today- and that radically optimize profits for those corporations ...well, I must say that I would find that position naieve bordering on willful ignorance.<br><br>
Sorry to all those my statements have offended, but that is in fact the trend I have been seeing from this administration, and the Republican party in its' influence upon women's rights and healthcare issues. And the choice to deny that such influence exists and comes to bear upon maternal health issues, such as the one in the OP is nothing less than just that- denial. The fact of this influence supports Ms. Paltrow's statement about the POLITICAL climate that provides fertile ground for such oppressive and profit driven healthcare policies and procedures.<br><br>
And that political climate is cultivated by the Republicans who seem to want to keep women in line as part of their cultural goals for our country, albeit, under the guise of protecting women and families. (Remember, we did get uppity with Women's Lib, Birthcontrol, and all...and my assertion is most evident with the many efforts to overturn Roe v. Wade vis a vis stacking state, federal, and the Supreme courts with "activist" judges...since...ohh yeah, that is EXACTLY who appointed Bush in the end.)<br><br>
Those corporate entities have been given near-carte blanche in how much influence they can freely bring to bear on all of us BECAUSE of the political climate they have paid for with their millions and is especially blatantly evident since Bush took office. The fact is, that the party of personal responsibility, the "Daddy" party, is revealing just how misogynistic it can be, and has had a Huge influence on the enabling of hospitals themselves to threaten and sue patients...especially birthing women at this time. From funding on the local level all anti-women's health rights, all the way to the national and global levels where funding has been yanked for family planning in third world countries where such is desperately needed- the misogyny is there; the need for power and control is there. That is my opinion. So be it.<br><br>
Here are some links to info about how the Bush administration is regarded by the world on issues having great bearing on women and families everywhere:<br><br><a href="http://www.wglobalscorecard.org/" target="_blank">http://www.wglobalscorecard.org/</a><br><br><a href="http://news.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=4977467" target="_blank">http://news.reuters.com/newsArticle....toryID=4977467</a><br><br><a href="http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2004/04/28/womens_report/index_np.html" target="_blank">http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/200.../index_np.html</a><br><br><a href="http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/4424142.htm" target="_blank">http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/4424142.htm</a><br><br>
I don't expect to change minds, but I do expect to make folks WANT TO check things out and do research for themselves on the issues and not just the kind of research that reassures and supports your views, but the kind that stirs uneasiness and creates more questions than you had to begin with. It is good to be disturbed from complacency because at some point, complacency can easily become complicity.<br><br>
We desperately need a thinking and ever-questioning (regardless of partisan-bent) electorate...one that sees all the connections and repercussions of their votes. And the vote this year will have far reaching effects for women.<br><br>
If the Bush administration can influence even the data, eliminating messy facts to bring science into better harmony with their agendas/beliefs, ignoring obvious things, then they also can change or eliminate any of the things we know to be true about women's health issues including childbearing rights, choices and responsibilities of women.<br><br>
But hey...who am I? Just someone who has been watching the changes over the last 20+ years- very carefully. I see trends and correlations.<br><br>
Just take a look at how oppressive the conditions of childbearing are becoming when a decision has to be made about the best or wisest care, including procedures such as c/sections. Or don't. It's only the future of our sisters and daughters after all. Why should we care to assert for choices and rights?<br><br>
I would not care what party was in office...if things got to the very scary slippery slope they appear to be, and subtly progressing down the slope, as we see now, and I was still bearing children- well, it'd be a cold day in hell when I chose to simply try to deflect attention from the fact of what party is currently actively supporting the progress of control over women's and family health rights.<br><br>
But that's just me and what do I know?<br>
Joyce in the mts.
 

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While I do think the Bush administration (and Republicans in general) are restrictive when it comes to women's rights, etc...and I have no love for the party whatsoever...<br><br>
the fact is that big corporations give equally to both parties.<br><br>
This sort of stuff has been going on for decades: hospitals putting themselves and their bottom lines ahead of the needs and wellbeing of mothers and babies. it has never been about what is best for baby. it's all about convenience and cultural notions of what babies "should" be doing after birth, etc. and god forbid women should be given any credit for having the slightest idea of what's best for them. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">
 

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True Piglet, 'twas ever thus, but we are talking about TODAY and we are talking about dealing with things now.<br><br>
But really...I agree with you.<br><br>
Both parties have done the same, however I do dare say that this administration is far more blatant and acts with more far-reaching effect than many others.<br><br>
WE have to address it with our votes THIS time...and that does not mean, we acquiesce and say..."but they did it too". That does not create change.<br><br>
But again...that is only MY opinion and what do I know?<br>
Joyce in the mts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Piglet68</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't think this has anything to do with the fetal rights issue ONE BIT.</div>
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I think the opposite. I have believed all along that the anti-abortion movement is maninly about keeping women down and I see these recent lawsuits as proof that my opinion was right.<br><br>
Patients who are not pregnent have the right to refuse treatment. Patients who are pregnant get tossed in jail ior are forced to undergo surgery if they make a decision that disagrees with their doctor. When this happens the court is ruling that the fetus is the patient who counts, not the pregnant woman.<br><br>
I disagree very, very strongly with giving a fetus the same legal rights as other people for the reason that there is no gurantee that the fetus will ever even BE a person until after the birth happens. Until then there is a very real risk of miscarriage or stillbirth. To force medicalized pregnancies is to pretend that if only we applied enough medical intervention every single fetus would eventually be born alive.<br><br>
I happen to be pregnant right now, so I find this sort of thing particulary threatening. I can imagine myself having to go into hiding if my water breaks and I don't want to let the doctor give me drugs to induce labor. Giving the fetus superior or even equal rights to the mother eliminates the possibility of getting good maternity care.<br><br>
Blame it on corpoartions if you wish, but the reason the corporations are afraid of lawsuits is because anti-abortion activists are willing to push lawsuits. Make no mistake, this is no less than a political attack on our female bodies.<br><br>
--AmyB
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AmyB</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have believed all along that the anti-abortion movement is maninly about keeping women down and I see these recent lawsuits as proof that my opinion was right.<br><br>
...Make no mistake, this is no less than a political attack on our female bodies.</div>
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I agree. I never could, and still can't understand it when women play a part in oppressing other women. It's a man's game, and it's all because of womb-envy. We are really the powerful ones, they are terrified that we might figure it out someday and rise up against them.
 

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Which lawsuits by the anti-abortionists are you referring to?<br><br>
Because I think if you do a search of malpractice suits in OB/delivery you will find that the single biggest number of these cases is a mother suing an OB for whatever harm/complications showed up in her child, and it is rarely due to havign a c-section. It's for vaginal births. I've heard cases of women suing doctors for their incontinence b/c they figure the baby was too big and the doc should have given them a C/S.<br><br>
I really am not sure who is suing the doctors on behalf of the fetuses, and that this is the largest contributor to soaring malpractice suits.<br><br>
The anti-abortion Right may be a powerful lobby indeed, but nothing is more powerful in our society than money. If the bottom line says "do a c/s to cover your ass" then that is what they will do. If they truly put the fetus' rights ahead of the mothers, they would REDUCE the number of C/S cases, don't you think?<br><br>
JMHO.
 

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And while I do hold the Corporations responsible, the "Daddy" party, meaning the Republican party currently in control seems more and more, to embody in so many of their administration's (representing the party's ideals) actions, a dysfunctional, abusive male who acts out his fear-based bid for power and control by systematically isolating and controlling the woman in his life.<br><br>
And stafl said it:"...it's all because of womb-envy. We are really the powerful ones, they are terrified that we might figure it out someday and rise up against them."<br><br>
Oh yes we are the powerful ones.<br><br>
Like I said before: to them, we're ALL Eve...and feminism made the poor things feel emasculated, so now is the backlash. First through cultural institutions such as religion with words and ideas and through limiting educational opportunities, and also through professional limitation, and now through limiting the most basic of our inalienable rights: our birthing options and birthing power, forcibly.<br><br>
And they are getting more and more blatant about the dysfunctional bid for power and control. It's twisted and sick and must be exposed and dealt with, or it's our daughters' futures and we'll have to go underground risking all for our rights to decide where and how we will birth, as well as whom we choose to have in attendance caring for us if anyone at all.<br><br>
Yes, our real power is awesome and they are terrified and feel disdain, distrust and disrespect toward it. All men that ever were came from women, no matter what. They can't deny that.<br><br>
Joyce in the mts.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Piglet68</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Which lawsuits by the anti-abortionists are you referring to?</div>
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The lawsuits in question are women being forced by the courts to have surgical birth. Disgusting! Sends chills down my spine, and if they can do it to one woman, any of us might be next!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>stafl</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The lawsuits in question are women being forced by the courts to have surgical birth. Disgusting! Sends chills down my spine, and if they can do it to one woman, any of us might be next!</div>
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But it isn't the anti-abortion folks forcing these women to have surgical births. It's their OB's. The same OB's that perform abortions. The OBs that are scared of getting sued if they don't make the mom have a c/s and something bad does happen to the baby. The problem here is 1) the insurance companies that are charging docs so much for malpractice insurance and 2) the courts that are awarding ungodly amounts of money to people that do sue the doctors.
 

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but if the doctor's don't stop doing stuff like sections and other proceedures, women are going to continue to end up being tortured....
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Piglet68</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't think this has anything to do with the fetal rights issue ONE BIT.<br><br>
It's about covering your butt. It's about law suits, soaring malpractice insurance rates, etc. Not to mention a whole load of ignorance still floating around the OB community.<br><br>
I wish it was about concern for the baby, but it's not.</div>
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ITA.<br><br>
Thank you for saying it.<br><br>
It is all about making money and controlling people.
 
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