Mothering Forum banner

1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,324 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Do such things exist? Is it possible for both parties (meaning Mom and baby/toddler) to be happy about the sleep arrangements?<br><br>
Ds (18 mos) "needs" to nurse to sleep. He has a deep seated nursing to sleep association. Which is fine, except that he wakes up numerous times a night, and, of course, needs to be nursed back to sleep. We do cosleep, but being woke up 5, 6, or more times a night is really way too much for me.<br>
He wakes up crying, until he's nursed, then goes right back to sleep. My theory is that he wakes up, and all he wants to do is go back to sleep- he just doesn't know how unless he's nursing.<br>
It's gotten even worse recently- I can't hardly roll over even AFTER he's asleep. Towards morning mostly, he'll wake up, I'll nurse him back to sleep, then after he's very asleep, I'll roll over to get comfy. He lasts 15-30 minutes, at most, then he's back awake crying to be nursed. Recently, its been taking longer and longer to even get him back to sleep.<br>
I wake up, and am grumpy, and NOT the mom I want to be.<br><br>
So, I know he needs to learn how to go to sleep without nursing. But how do I do that!?!? I'm not going to let him cry. There HAS to be a way to meet both needs. I have some legitimate needs and limits here- but there's no way I can see to meet my needs, while still meeting his.<br>
I've tried talking to him, and explaining, and we started "practicing" going to sleep without nursing. He'll lay his head down, then he's right back to nursing. We've only done that a couple of times, but I don't know how far that's going to take us.<br><br>
Also. bedtime keeps getting later and later. Like 2am. (we're night owls in general) He'll want a nap at 8 (and trust me- that would never turn into bedtime) then be up for hours. I hate keeping him awake from naps, but I get REALLY frustrated the further it gets past midnight. I end up letting him sleep, generally. Any sleep before midnight ends up being a nap- I've tried. I've layed in bed, and stayed right beside him, and nursed the moment he woke up. But nope- up for hours. I've been trying for MONTHS to move bedtime earlier. Everytime we get almost to midnight, something happens, and it goes right back to 2. What can I do here!? I want to respect his natural need for sleep, but then again, this is something I created, unknowingly, from the beginning. I figured that since he slept around the clock as a newborn, then it wouldn't matter when we actually went to bed. But...it did. I've never been a scheduled sleep person. He's never had scheduled naps, or a scheduled bedtime. But I'd like to have some sort of a decent hour that we tend to go to sleep!!!<br><br>
(Let me say that I do NOT think its natural for him to need to nurse to sleep, every time he wakes up. That's a problem that I created, by nursing him to sleep right away every time it was time to sleep. Because it was the fastest thing to do. I never gave him a chance to learn to get to sleep on his own. By that I mean, I should have gone to bed, then let him try to go to sleep and not nurse him until he "asked" to nurse (indicated that he wanted to nurse, by fussing or signing, or whatever).<br><br>
Any wise words about the situation? I'm interested a lot in a non-coersion perspective on this. Or perhaps this happened because I've been "working on" his sleep since he was a few months old? Thus creating some sort of issue, that neither of us can move past?<br><br>
Ok, that got really long. I'm sure this will get moved to the night forum, but I'm quite interested in what some of the gals here have to say on this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,402 Posts
I nurse to sleep, with each wake, so I can't help you there. Dd goes to sleep late as well. Lately it was b/w 12-1:30, but is starting to get earlier. She naps late as well, and I never keep her awake or wake her from a nap. What is helping us get on an earlier schedule is having me wake up early (10ish) and get out of bed. Normally w/in 20 mins of me being gone she's awake (same for naps, so we stay). If she's very tired, she's slept 47 mins by herself (I was soo surprised). So now she's on an earlier schedule. I never actually woke her, but I did figure she would wake. I started this slowly though- we were getting up b/w 12 and 12:30, so I would get up at 11:45, then 11:30, then 11...<br>
We are just on the new routine (we don't schedule anything either) and I'm happy.<br><br>
I know what you mean about waking crying to eat. I'm just not interested in changing that aspect for us.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,324 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yeah, we're in the process of moving up MY waking time each day. lol. Ds does the same thing your dd does- he's awake within a half hour of me getting up. I think I tried to move too much at one time though- so I will definitely take your suggestion and try 15 min for a few days, and go from there.<br><br>
Does your dd wake a bunch at night? You say you're not interested in changing that aspect. Does it not bother you? What do you do to make the night wakings easier on you? Or are you one of those women who can nurse all night and not even notice (boy, I'd love to be able to do that! lol).<br><br>
Just wondering if there's something I can change about what *I* do to make it easier on me in the meantime. Perhaps a change in the way I'm thinking? (although I still have to work towards fewer night wakings- it really is rough on me- especially in the middle of the night).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,959 Posts
Well, I disagree. I do think it's natural and I always nursed my kids to sleep when they wanted it. With DD, she was just like your child. Around that age, however, I noticed on a few rare occasions that instead of falling asleep at the breast, she would unlatch right before she was out completely, roll over and snuggle into me, before falling asleep.<br><br>
When I got PG and wanted to nightwean GENTLY, I decided to capitalize on this. And by the way, I have heard from many mamas that this unlatching-before-sleep thing happens, so I believe it might just be a developmental stage.<br><br>
So what I did was, whenever this happened, I'd rub her back and murmur "sleepies, go sleepies now". After a few times of this, she developed an association between that word and what she was doing. So when she woke up in the middle of the night to nurse, I'd rub her back and murmur "sleepies, go sleepies" BEFORE I tried nursing her. If she just got more agitated, I'd nurse, but every once in a blue moon, it would work. And as the weeks went by it worked more and more often, until after about 5 months she was only waking once to nurse, and very often sleeping through the night. There was no crying involved: if the rubbing wasn't working, I'd nurse. But it worked.<br><br>
Also, keeping a sippy cup handy in case she was truly thirsty sometimes worked as well.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,324 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Piglet68</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Well, I disagree. I do think it's natural and I always nursed my kids to sleep when they wanted it.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Yes, I agree that kids ought to be nursed to sleep when they want to.<br>
I caused our problem by nursing him to sleep, as a matter of course, whether he expressed the desire or not. It was the fastest way to get him to sleep. The few times I tried, he was happy to crawl around, ask for a book to be read, nurse a bit, crawl some more, then sometimes get comfy and doze off, sometimes he'd want to nurse. I didn't offer, but I wouldn't refuse either.<br>
But more often than not, I nursed him to sleep right off the bat, because I was so tired that I just wanted him to go to sleep asap.<br><br>
That's a good idea about the association with the words. Now all I have to do is catch him unlatching and rolling over to fall asleep. hehehe Ah, if only...no, I'm sure it will happen. It's happened before. I think that there must be something wierd going on this last week or 2. Sleep has been more harsh than usual. Maybe some teeth? Hopefully soon we'll be able to work on better sleep. In the meantime though... aarrrgh. lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,596 Posts
I wonder if you have checked out the cosleeping forum? Or whatever it is called now. "Nighttime parenting," maybe. I don't really see this as a discipline issue.<br><br>
That said -- I can tell you about my experiences! With each child, around 18 months, I started to feel a sense that we all needed a schedule. And I chose to respect my feelings on the matter! Bedtime was the first thing.... and I found that the best way to encourage an earlier bedtime was to reduce daytime naps to 1x early in the afternoon. And to keep them busy the rest of the day. And active. No sleep late in the afternoon. And lots of fresh air, friends, and engaging activities. The next thing was to get my DH putting them to sleep at night. At least 1/2 the time. So they learned to fall asleep with rocking and singing and long meandering bedtime stories. And as often as possible, no distracting boobies in the vicinity. Though of course I responded when they needed me during the night. Then with my 2nd baby -- And then with my 2nd baby --- I did end up nighttweaning, but I found that I had to wait until he was about 2 and 1/2 years old before I felt comfortable with understanding and security level.<br><br>
The "No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley has some useful suggestions . Its not a cure all -- but its helpful and hopeful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,219 Posts
In <i>The No-Cry Sleep Solution,</i> Elizabeth Pantley talks about the "Pantley pull-off method" to break the always-nursing-to-sleep association. You go ahead and nurse on demand at night, but then when his sucking slows down and he's just lying there with the nipple in his mouth, you gently break his latch. If he fusses, go ahead and nurse again, but then take him off the nipple again when he stops sucking.<br><br>
The idea is that you're trying to stop nursing just *seconds* before he goes to sleep, so that the actual falling-to-sleep part happens with no nipple in his mouth. Then, gradually, as he gets used to that, it should be easier to detach him earlier in the falling-to-sleep process.<br><br>
I really recommend that book - it helped us a lot.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,072 Posts
Not much time right now but here is my post about this. Ds woke every 60-90 minutes too.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Mine did too for the first 18-21 months until I read NCSS. I understood the idea of getting the nipple out of his mouth but the reality was quite a bit harder. It took almost three months for this to succeed. At times, I figured trying to change seemed so much harder than just letting him nurse to sleep every 60-90 minutes all night long. But I kept at it for one week and found that several times in the week he DID fall back asleep with out the nipple. And I swear it had never happened before NCSS. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> So, that gave me some hope. Then, the second week it happened only several times and again I felt hopeless. And sleepless because at the same time I was doing MORE sleep associations which were just making me MORE awake and MORE tired.<br><br>
Oh, how I wished that I had done the MORE sleep associations when he had been an infant. But I didn't have the energy or the desire not to just peacefully nurse him to sleep. That worked and we both loved it. Until, I was so sleep deprived that I needed sleep more than I wanted to just keep waking to nurse him back to sleep. Of course, we co-slept or I'd have died of exhaustion well before 18 months. But it wasn't that ds wasn't just dozing peacefully back to sleep, *I* wasn't dozing back to sleep despite exhaustion and probably due to the self talk of "I want to sleep! I don't want to wake up every hour or two any more!"<br><br>
So, we kept adding sleep associations: I would tap my finger on his head softly with a heartbeat cadence; I had added a lullabye, started making a shusshing sound at regular intervals, added a lovey which we always held while nursing; held him in a specific way, cradled his head against my arm for slight pressure on it; placed a heavy hand on his chest to mimic holding him close; gently delatched him BUT DID NOT MOVE A MUSCLE continuing ALL the added sleep associations; and waited TEN MINUTES until he was deeply asleep and then I would slowly and gently set him on the bed beside me and keep doing all the added sleep associations except the nursing for several minutes. Then gradually stoping the lullabye, then stoping the head pressure and then stopping the tapping cadence then stopping the gentle chest pressure and then stopping the shusshing and the lovey was his companion.<br><br>
Then when he awakened we did the whole thing again every time for about four weeks until gradually the delatching routine became quicker. And after about two more months, when he awakened occasionally the other sleep associations were enough and gradually over the next several months I slowly withdrew them except to just place my heavy hand on his chest or head and shussh him back to sleep, sometimes with the heart beat tap, tap, tap cadence. But, he still awakened to nurse about three times a night but it was a much shorter time awake because all the signals were associated with sleep and he dozed off more quickly. And I got back to sleep more quickly too.<br><br>
So, the NCSS allowed me to ultimately get more sleep but in the "short run" of the first couple of months of adding sleep associations, I had much less sleep!<br><br>
HTH, Pat</td>
</tr></table></div>
Oh, and wheat intolerance (and dairy) is highly associated with night waking hourly with restless legs and gassiness. Let me know if you need more info.
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
Top