Mothering Forum banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,697 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so after after obtaining custody by default of DD last Monday, my lawyer and I are left to figure out what to do about child support. In a normal situation with a "normal" ex spouse, we would both just submit last year's income tax return along with this year's annual salary, and CS would be set according to provincial guidelines, from which there is very little room to wiggle out of.<br><br>
Also, let me preface this by saying that in Quebec, there is very little tolerance for delinquant parents who try to get out of paying CS. Once child support is ordered by the courts and established, the Ministry of Revenue takes control and automatically deducts the amount at source. There is a provision allowing a parent to opt out of this and to choose to receive CS via cheque from their ex-spouse, but if after a time the ex spouse doesn't send CS anymore, then tough luck.<br><br>
In my situation, the appeal delay for my divorce is May 31st. After this, the divorce proceeds uncontested and will be finalized by the end of the summer. In order for the divorce to proceed though, child support rates have to set depending on my and STBX's yearly salary as well as the rate of visitation (which is now 10%). I've already given my earning information to the lawyer, but for a while, I didn't know where STBX worked. Now I've snooped around and found him to be working at his previous employer (I also have his social insurance number), and I think I know approximately how much he makes. According to my lawyer, he'd pay approximately 220$ a month. Since we don't have the exact amount of his earnings and STBX isn't willing to give that information up, we'd have to subpoena his employer, who would then have to ask STBX's permission to release the earnings information. If he refuses the employer will be forced to appear before a judge who will order him to release the information. So, one way or another, the courts will get what they need to set CS.<br><br>
I'd been hesitating a lot about simply sending a subpoena to STBX's employer, and my lawyer had told me that there was a way to delay this by producing an affidavit stating that we don't know how much he earns. This tactic will however delay my divorce being finalized, especially if a judge decides that it is unacceptable for us not to know STBX's employment information and demand that we obtain it. If that occurs, then the whole subpoena thing will happen anyhow.<br><br>
My dilemma is this: STBX and I have achieved a sort of peaceful interaction. We only speak once a week, when I drive DD to his place or when I pick her up. Aside from that, there are a few texts regarding scheduling, but nothing else. He was angry when he got served with divorce and custody proceedings, but after a week or so, things calmed down. Also, DD seems to recognize him now and is happy to go see him. I'm afraid that if I go with the flow, and let events happen as they should, STBX will *freak out* about having CS deducted from his salary and that our interaction will become toxic again, which can negatively affect DD. I'm also unsure whether or not STBX can go after more visitation in order to try to reduce his CS rate, since in my judgment it states that a) I have custody and b) visitation has to be determined in an amicable agreement between both of us.<br><br>
I've already sort of decided that I shouldn't try to delay the course of the law and I will ask my lawyer to go ahead with the subpoena on Monday. I'm still worried about STBX's reaction though. My gut reaction to CS was that I didn't want it in the first place because I didn't want to be tied to STBX in any way, and I didn't want to owe him. After giving this some thought, I figured that even though I don't really need the CS, I'd just put it in savings for DD's education later on.<br><br>
Does anyone have any input? I'm wondering if I should warn STBX about this, or discuss it with him....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,056 Posts
I would give him a warning that if he doesn't cough up the information on his own, papers will be served to his boss. He's acting like a child. Don't cave in to it. He WILL get over it, and peace will be reached again. You can't be held hostage by his temper tantrums. I don't know your story, but I suspect that this sort of dynamic might have helped lead you to divorce to begin with?<br><br>
Also, child support isn't for YOU, it's for your CHILD. Nobody will "owe" him anything.<br><br>
And, document everything. If he acts like a jerk when you bring the child to him, document it. Write down everything he gives you a hard time about. Why does your judgement leave visitation up to the two of you rather than a set minimum of visits? I don't know if, in your situation, that is the best thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,765 Posts
Don't forgo c/s in order to "keep the peace." I was very tempted to do so, but my lawyer said no way - he's going to pay up. If he's going to be a jerk, he'll be so either way. Parents don't get to throw a tantrum & get out of obligations to their children.<br><br>
My ex got over it, when he realized it was the law & that was that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,192 Posts
PP are right. Your child deserves that money and you should stop worrying about your ex's feelings. Let him throw a fit or two. He'll have to deal with his responsibilities just like all other adults.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,690 Posts
i think you should go for the child support because your child deserves the money and it is your ex's moral and legal obligation to support your child.<br><br>
good luck ~ i hate when peaceful situations turn tricky.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,697 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I guess I'm concerned about STBX's reaction because I know what kind of person he is...aside from this addiction to alcohol and sleeping medication, he's also got some issues with verbal abuse and anger management. And then there are the delusions about how he's part of a higher breed of beings superior to humans, and that someday soon an apocalypse will take place and his son will lead humanity into a new era...<br><br>
Sooooo, not the most stable person around.<br><br>
But, I guess there's nothing else to do but proceed and document his behaviour.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,309 Posts
Definitely document his behavior - and, his reaction may be bad but he'll get over it. Just like he did the last time. And if he threatens to take you back to court for more visitation, its not going to look good to a judge that he <i>didn't even show up</i> the first time.<br><br>
You can, if you want to, ask one more time for the information, and then when he says no, tell him that he can expect for his boss to be served with a subpoena.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Maybe this would be a good time to modify the custody order, to make it more specific about visitation. Not that ds's father & I are still following our court-ordered "schedule" at this point, 5 years later, but we do have it to fall back on if there's ever a big disagreement.<br><br>
Court is <b>such</b> a gamble, I have found. Everyone ~ lawyers, social workers, the preschool director and even X himself was <b>shocked</b> when the judge randomly came up with a 50-50 split despite all expectations to the contrary.... and dropping the charges against X (in connection with his attack on my older child ~ an incident that I personally witnessed and reported). After that, I could never stomach going to court for child support, b/c X isn't someone I want to fight with.... I'm still trying to get my health back from the last round! It's not as though X would ever pay child support anyway.... he tends to ignore his financial responsibilities & so far has been getting away with it (not just with me.... he's got a teflon thing going on for many years now, but I expect it'll eventually catch up with him?)<br><br>
Sadly, X is not even particularly unique. One of my friends has an ex-husband <b>very</b> similar to mine, but in some ways even worse. He has now gained more than half custody of their child, & is still angry & wanting to fight my friend in court for some more time (meanwhile my friend's dd, when she is "with her dad", spends 10 or 11 hours a day with her grandmother ~ ex's mom ~ he's paying her to babysit ~ which stings all the more because currently my friend has a new baby & is no longer WOHM for the time being....she has done nothing wrong to be punished for, has never even been accused of anything, and would love to be taking care of her own dd instead of her ex-MIL doing it, but that's how it stands right now....court order).<br><br>
Oops... sorry, sore subject. Anyway ~ I don't know anything about your son's father, but I wouldn't go back to court with my X again for any less than.... I'm going to say, I might consider it if I'd get $100,000 USD, guaranteed no way to lose, lump sum paid to me cash right on the spot that very day, & then to be repeated another $100,000 every first of the month until ds was 21 or out of college.... even then, knowing his means of revenge, I don't think I would do it really.... And certainly never, not in a million years, for 220 a month. One could actually earn that much in one day a week, at US minimum wage... & there are other ways to get it too.... Personally I'm trying to spend less at the moment. But that's just me, because I've seen my X in action, & he's the filthiest, ugliest fighter ever. {Also he almost always works off the books, so I could end up being ordered to pay child support to <b>him</b> which would be a huge injustice, truly.}<br><br>
But here's the thing.... Now that we aren't together anymore, there aren't many ways left, for him to get back at me (& he would <b>seriously</b> be out for BIG revenge if I took him to court for child support). In fact, the only thing he's got left in his arsenal, that could really hurt me nowadays, is to be cruel to our son. There's nothing else he could do to bother me more than that & of course, he knows it.<br><br>
I would never have believed that anyone would intentionally be cruel to a little child, especially their own child, & would use that child purely as a means to hurt the feelings of a <b>completely other person</b> (me, b/c he was angry about the separation, or whatever bug he had up his pants). But that's what he has done, been mean to our innocent child, knowing (sorta) how it'll make me feel, so as to express his anger at me. I wouldn't have thought <b>anybody</b> would do that, really.... much less that particular person. Obviously at one time I thought he was a good choice to marry.... thought he was a good guy.... & he <b>is</b> good ~ good at manipulating everyone around him to do his bidding. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked"><br><br>
So, ya never know.... there's not just one right answer every time. I've seen lots of advice along the lines of "it's the custodial parent's responsibility to get child support, because it's the child's legal right to have that money" on parenting forums.... But, there are also, sometimes, valid reasons to let that money go ~ also for the sake of the child. Just different circumstances.<br><br>
Re-reading your post real quick, I see that toward the end you mention your gut reaction. OK. You already know your answer, I think.<br><br>
In my experience the gut reaction is with us for a reason. I've ignored my own instinct / gut reaction before, one reason or another ~ & often, as it turned out, to my extreme peril. Please pay very close attention to your own gut ~ could be alerting you to a potentially serious misbalance.... I would definitely follow my gut reaction over the advice of a lawyer or any hired professional. Your lawyer isn't hormonally / harmonically tuned to protect the particular child in this situation, due to the fact that it's <b>your</b> child, and that's how <b>you're</b> wired / tuned in to protect him....<br><br>
At least, pause, take a breath, & try to smell out what's bothering you, if it's realistic (probably somewhat...b/c IMO the gut doesn't lie) how much it's worth to you, & how strongly your gut is expressing discomfort with the plan. ....& again, it's really not very much money unless you're in a super bad situation financially.... which even if you are, won't always be the case....<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/soapbox.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="soapbox"> <<<jumping off there now. (My first time using that smilie, perhaps?)<br><br>
I guess this is my most passionate subject. Yours too, I'm sure. I wish you the best of luck with these important decisions!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,697 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, after speaking to my lawyer yesterday I got a few things straightened out.<br><br>
a) the subpoena is being prepared and will be served soon. After discussing it with the lawyer, we both agreed that *eventually* it will come to a subpoena anyhow. The courts will NOT grant a judgment of divorce until child support is established, and child support cannot be established without STBX's financial information...which he won't willingly give up, hence the subpoena to his employer.<br><br>
recremaicila...I would really prefer not to pursue CS, but it's not an option that's open to me given where I live.<br><br>
b) regarding visitation, my judgment seems to grant me discretion regarding when, where and how. i.e. if I don't want to keep driving DD to STBX's place every Sunday, I don't have to. If I find Sundays don't work for DD any longer, I can change it. If STBX wants more visitation, and I find his demands unreasonable, I can refuse. If he's not happy, he has to petition the courts. There's not even any particular day and time set, but I've asked that it be clearly outlined in the divorce agreement, so there's no confusion. Overall though, I was told that--for once, I have the upper hand in the situation. It's a very strange place to be, considering I spent my entire marriage trying to placate STBX and tiptoe around his fits of rage. It does however place the onus on me to put the judgment under STBX's nose should he ever get out of hand and start making demands...which obviously makes me nervous.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,309 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Halfasianmomma</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15393965"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Well, after speaking to my lawyer yesterday I got a few things straightened out.<br><br>
a) the subpoena is being prepared and will be served soon. After discussing it with the lawyer, we both agreed that *eventually* it will come to a subpoena anyhow. The courts will NOT grant a judgment of divorce until child support is established, and child support cannot be established without STBX's financial information...which he won't willingly give up, hence the subpoena to his employer.<br><br>
recremaicila...I would really prefer not to pursue CS, but it's not an option that's open to me given where I live.<br><br>
b) regarding visitation, my judgment seems to grant me discretion regarding when, where and how. i.e. if I don't want to keep driving DD to STBX's place every Sunday, I don't have to. If I find Sundays don't work for DD any longer, I can change it. If STBX wants more visitation, and I find his demands unreasonable, I can refuse. If he's not happy, he has to petition the courts. There's not even any particular day and time set, but I've asked that it be clearly outlined in the divorce agreement, so there's no confusion. Overall though, I was told that--for once, I have the upper hand in the situation. It's a very strange place to be, considering I spent my entire marriage trying to placate STBX and tiptoe around his fits of rage. It does however place the onus on me to put the judgment under STBX's nose should he ever get out of hand and start making demands...which obviously makes me nervous.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I'm glad you got these things straightened out!<br><br>
And, <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> I know how hard it is to be on the receiving end of abuse. The one word of caution that I will offer, and I'm positive you already know this, is to be very very reasonable. If Sunday stops working for you (as an example) make sure you talk to your stbx about what other day woudl work for him - give him some options. Don't just change it. A judge will want to see that YOU are TRYING to work with him, and that he is unwilling to work things out. If you can establish that, you're golden (well, almost - the rest is a crapshoot as far as who your judge is!).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,825 Posts
Good luck, it will work out eventually. I know how much you want the final divorce. I filed for divorce in 2007 and it is still not finalized thanks to my abusive ex pulling me in and out of court and being difficult. Subopena's aren't so bad and it is out of your control. My lawyer just supopeaned my ex's speeding ticket he got when he had our kids. 86mph's. He won't offer the information so subopeana it is. I hope you get things finalized soon
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top