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And what about colostrum to help heal the gut? I know someone posted that they were taking it, but I can't find it to quote it. Would this be another good addition to help speed things up?<br><br>
Jane<br>
:yawning: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/treehugger.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Treehugger">:Mama to Erik (11) ASD<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/ribbonjigsaw.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="autism">:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/saynovax.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="no vax"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/bftoddler.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bftoddler">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/familybed1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Familybed1">
 

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It would be better (in all honesty) to drink your own milk if you are willing. Barring that, colostrum can be extremely helpful...but you still need to address the fact that things are out of balance.<br><br>
I agree that candida can be a helper. In my mind everything is information. What it's telling you is that whatever you are doing isn't quite right. Now, there may be some instances (such as a c-section with antibiotics immediately and drugs to suppress the system) where it's an acute issue that never gets resolved, but for many of us it's our bodies way of saying, "hey! Stop eating CRAP! This is not working for us!" SO, while it may need to be addressed (and how you do this is up to you) hte message is that your body needs something different to happen. It's a symptom. I would just say don't lose sight of the necessity of changing whatever patterns got you here to begin with on the quest.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>rominick</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12166267"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
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The diet (currently on BED) changes helped, but then I knew I had to do more. I started the Nystatin over a week ago and then added in Threelac about 4 days ago. Every time I have added or changed something I have die off. It does not seem to affect the baby too much that I can tell.<br><br><span style="color:#0000FF;">and it shouldn't if you keep up with the enzymes</span><br><br>
I also take VRP Kandidaplex, Biotin (5000mcg from ARG), adrenal fatigue supplements (mostly B vitamins, yeast free), milk thistle, quercetin, coq10, coenzyme A, systemic enzymes (bromelain, serrapep, Candex) and a Houston's No-Fenol along with the Nystatin. I also started drinking the Coconut Kefir today.<br><br>
It seems like a lot to do while nursing a baby, but he is 17 months old and probably needs some of this anyway. I am considering treating him more directly, although he doesn't really show any yeast symptoms. Now that doesn't mean much to me, since I never really showed any through the years either. I know that I have had Candida for many years. It is because of this very thread that I am realizing just how I really HAVE had it for years.<br><br>
I don't know what it is going to take to get rid or it or bring myself back into balance, but I hope that I can at least get back to pre-autoimmune.<br><br><span style="color:#0000FF;">Anything can be healed with the proper tools. You are doing great!</span><br><br>
I know Diflucan is hard on the liver, but I am considering using it to rotate with Nystatin. It would be to address more of the systemic yeast and I do take milk thistle, so maybe that will help some. I have a Rx for it, so easy enough on that part. Just not sure how long to take it for and also concerned about how much gets into the milk. My 17 month old is a frequent nurser, especially at night.<br><br><span style="color:#0000FF;">I would personally run screaming from Diflucan. It is rarely used properly, and even when it is it is NOT safe IMO. It does terrible things to the liver (I remember reading cases where repeated usage led to cirrhosis of the liver) and it does get into the milk because it does get into the blood. The liver cannot possibly clear it enough to make it safe. I can't make the decision for you, but I would personally not do it.</span><br><br>
Any thoughts on this?<br><br>
Jane<br>
:yawning: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/treehugger.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Treehugger">:Mama to Erik (11) ASD<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/ribbonjigsaw.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="autism">:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/saynovax.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="no vax"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/bftoddler.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bftoddler">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/familybed1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Familybed1"></div>
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<span style="color:#0000FF;">I know what a long road it is, and I hope you find something that works for you.</span>
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Calm</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12165932"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">This is a relevant concern.<br>
I have to point out, even though it is irrelevant to the current issue, that some info from their site is totally false, and makes me wonder if they are worth their salt at all, such as:<br><a href="http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com/threelacreview.html" target="_blank">http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com...lacreview.html</a><br>
When you make something more acidic, you LOWER the pH, not raise it. Good bacteria like the ACID environment, bad guys like alkaline – in general. So the lactic acid production is a GOOD thing. The large intestine varies in pH, from acidic to neutral.<br><br>
There are a few things to note about E Faecalis. The focus on the reaction to it here in Australia has been blown out of proportion. It is allowed as a probiotic, starter culture, in the Aust. Quarantine list.<br><br>
It is also part of the normal human gut flora, in the upper (alkaline) part of the digestive system. It's about balance, as always, adding more of what one has lost in favor of yeast.<br><br>
The Naked Scientists have a great forum and always have interesting reading that isn't from just your average Joe Bloggs. This is from an article on how the gut becomes colonised from birth and info on probiotics etc.<br><a href="http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/articles/article/jemimastocktoncolumn1.htm/" target="_blank">The Naked Scientists:</a><br>
(note, the acidic top end of the small intestine is the duodenum, which comes straight from the stomach so hasn't gone alkaline yet, just for the pedantic reader <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">)<br><br>
E Faecalis is part of the normal furnishings in a newborn gut and has beneficial uses (depending on the strain):<br><br><a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/105/6/1943.full" target="_blank"><br>
Enterococcus faecalis from newborn babies regulate endogenous PPARγ activity and IL-10 levels in colonic epithelial cells</a><br>
What all that means in English is that it is a normal part of even a newborn gut, and is doing good things for immunity and development, including reducing the diarrhea that can occur from E Coli, and that it keeps things in balance. "Colonic epithelial cells" is referring to the colon wall.<br><br>
Now, having said all that, it is a good opportunity to mention something about probiotics, not limited to E Faecalis. And that is they <i>all</i> risk muting the immune response to them, sort of like “antibiotic resistance”. They are bacteria, after all. We have E Coli and a whole host of pretty nasty microorganisms residing normally in our gut. It isn't the organism that is the problem, it is when it gets away from the immune system, or when it overgrows. All of them have the potential to do that.<br><br>
I don't know if I've made anyone feel better or worse about probiotics with this <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">.<br><br>
Really, the key word is <i>balance</i>. Making sure you eat, breathe and in other ways consume as many strains of the good guys as you can, and less of bad guys (eg, moldy bathrooms, infected water sources...). Cleansing, keeping the immune system up to speed and cleaning house thoroughly if ever you take or do something that knocks that out of balance. Like I've mentioned though, just the way Westerners eat and live can knock that in favor of yeast, that's why we treat it and not bacteria unless we have reason to treat bacteria.</div>
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I agree that alot of the info is questionable and much of it taken out of context...isolating a strain and giving it in large doses is NOT what we are talking about. However I do have to question the idea of giving it when someone is severely immunosuppressed AND has just gone through heavy rounds of antibiotics so that the terrain is totally compromised artificially. I have used it, and had no issues with it, but I was on a pretty intense protocol and it was not used on it's own.<br><br>
I have always done the oxygen supps to-long before they were selling them. I was doing them (as was dd) when we did threelac. So I don't think we need to freak over these studies...but I think it may deserve some more attention.<br><br>
I also have to say that I am TOTALLY sketched out by the fact that threelac feels it's okay to market the fact that you don't need to undergo dietary changes as part of their regimen. Um, yeah, just keep doing what you were doing that got you here in the first place...and when you get into trouble we'll be here! I don't like that one bit.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Nanethiel</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12126842"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My MIL is a ND, so I asked her about it. She does not think that it kills the good guys, too.<br><br>
I will use OoO. I can't do the Nystatin. I have a very sensitive liver, and according to her the Nystatin could do more damage to my liver. So, OoO and Pau D'arco it is for now. Have to think about it some more and come up with a more specific plan.</div>
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Cass Ingram's book on OoO does mention it could kill off good bacteria, it's a tiny mention but it's there. I wish there were more specifics on this but I haven't found it. I think every "killer" does this and this is why I think enzymes are the gentlest choice.<br><br>
For liver protection, vitamin C is key.
 

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One pregnancy, no antibiotics during it, natural childbirth with no drugs, breastfed 1 year, child had multiple ear infections from 7 months-14 months (due to daycare) and was treated with antibiotics many times until started with chiroprator at 14 months old, fully vaxed, child has no allergies/food sensitivities/asthma (but none of these run in the family either)
 

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So I noticed one of the symptoms of yeast is "drunken" behavior. How might that look in a young child? I'm thinking my daughter is acting really weird. Even moreso than usual and it strikes me that it might be "drunken" behavior and she may indeed have yeast.
 

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I noticed one of my main die off symptoms is drunken in nature. I guess everyone gets different reactions but mine is definitely like I'm drunk, WITH a hangover. They say that whatever you experience as a yeast overgrowth symptom increases with die off. I now know why I seem so foggy and my memory is shot and all kinds of other things as this is what happened ten fold during die off. I have yeast chems in my brain. Or at least, I HAD them. I seem free of it all now. I've never felt so good, esp considering I have a 5 month old that has never slept through the night and is now teething the house down!<br><br>
I did, however, go nuts. crazy. whacko. Be warned. I don't know if it was just where I was at personally, but I'm pretty sure it was part of my die off. I just had a total melt down, mum called it a breakdown. I just couldn't formulate a proper sentence or think clearly and while having a heated discussion with my husband I just fell apart. Very unlike me, "calm" and all. I'm SO glad to be rid of the evil doers. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> They were obviously messing me up in more ways than I ever knew before.<br><br>
All my die off symptoms have ceased. I am going to increase dosages to maximum for another two weeks and then I'm going to call it done and go on a low maintenance program.
 

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How long have you been at it? Anything you think would be good for a 5 year old? as opposed to an adult?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Calm</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12179205"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I noticed one of my main die off symptoms is drunken in nature. I guess everyone gets different reactions but mine is definitely like I'm drunk, WITH a hangover. They say that whatever you experience as a yeast overgrowth symptom increases with die off. I now know why I seem so foggy and my memory is shot and all kinds of other things as this is what happened ten fold during die off. I have yeast chems in my brain. Or at least, I HAD them. I seem free of it all now. I've never felt so good, esp considering I have a 5 month old that has never slept through the night and is now teething the house down!<br><br>
I did, however, go nuts. crazy. whacko. Be warned. I don't know if it was just where I was at personally, but I'm pretty sure it was part of my die off. I just had a total melt down, mum called it a breakdown. I just couldn't formulate a proper sentence or think clearly and while having a heated discussion with my husband I just fell apart. Very unlike me, "calm" and all. I'm SO glad to be rid of the evil doers. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> They were obviously messing me up in more ways than I ever knew before.<br><br>
All my die off symptoms have ceased. I am going to increase dosages to maximum for another two weeks and then I'm going to call it done and go on a low maintenance program.</div>
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I have had episodes of this type of thing, but thought it was malnutrition and fatigue and stress. I had never attributed it to yeast. Gee I like this thread. I thought it was only me going out of my mind because I couldn't have any dessert.
 

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Janine,<br><br>
I went nuts, too. Really. As in, calling hubby at 4am (away on business trip), sobbing, not being able to sleep, etc.<br><br>
I confirmed with MIL (ND) that yeast overgrowth can make you totally loopy.<br><br>
Today is the first day (been at it for about 6 days now) that I feel really good. Emotionally, too! And really, my worst die off symptoms are of an emotional nature.<br><br>
Then there's exhaustion. I'm now completely sure it's been made much worse (or caused completely by) the yeast overgrowth.<br><br>
I wrote an apology email to my hubby this morning, and I actually used the same analogy. I talked about feeling as if a fog is lifting..<br><br>
That's the biggies. I do have a sore throat now and then, and a slight headache.<br><br>
I'm in it for another 3 months <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"> But I know I'll be much better within the next couple of weeks already.<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Calm</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12179205"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I noticed one of my main die off symptoms is drunken in nature. I guess everyone gets different reactions but mine is definitely like I'm drunk, WITH a hangover. They say that whatever you experience as a yeast overgrowth symptom increases with die off. I now know why I seem so foggy and my memory is shot and all kinds of other things as this is what happened ten fold during die off. I have yeast chems in my brain. Or at least, I HAD them. I seem free of it all now. I've never felt so good, esp considering I have a 5 month old that has never slept through the night and is now teething the house down!<br><br>
I did, however, go nuts. crazy. whacko. Be warned. I don't know if it was just where I was at personally, but I'm pretty sure it was part of my die off. I just had a total melt down, mum called it a breakdown. I just couldn't formulate a proper sentence or think clearly and while having a heated discussion with my husband I just fell apart. Very unlike me, "calm" and all. I'm SO glad to be rid of the evil doers. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> They were obviously messing me up in more ways than I ever knew before.<br><br>
All my die off symptoms have ceased. I am going to increase dosages to maximum for another two weeks and then I'm going to call it done and go on a low maintenance program.</div>
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Okay, this is what I'm doing/have done so far.<br><br>
At first, I started with drinking Pau'Darco tea. Simply due to the fact that I had to order the other stuff when I found out that OoO is not good for your milk supply. So, while waiting for the "real" stuff to come I drank a bunch of tea.<br><br>
What I am doing now:<br><br>
Aqua Flora Program (homeopathic yeast cleanse - powerful stuff)<br>
Candex<br>
Oxygen Elements<br>
Lots of Water<br>
Broth<br>
Biotin<br><br>
Going to add Probiotics tomorrow or the day after that.<br><br>
Baby:<br><br>
Oxygen Elements only so far. He'll start on Probiotics, too.<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>chlobo</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12126874"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Let me know what you plan is. I'm trying no fenol now & was thinking of candidase next. But maybe OoO. Are you going to give to the baby too?</div>
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My candidase just arrived. I'm starting that today.<br><br>
Where do you order Oxygen Elements?
 

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Chlobo, I've been at it in total over four weeks. But I started three months ago. I stopped all treatments while DS was treated for allergies, I couldn't take threelac as it has lemon and he had a citrus allergy/sensitivity, I couldn't do much at all as he had 20 different allergies. After they were mostly cleared (the last treatment was yesterday, woot! Slept 6 hours straight last night without getting a blocked nose, double woot!!), I started back on the treatment. So I add the two together and get about four weeks. I had die off most of that time, but easing each day a little.<br><br>
My daughter is 6 and I give her both oxygen elements and threelac. She and DS share a sachet of threelac, he gets an eighth of a teaspoon and she gets the rest of the sachet. She isn't on enough, she hasn't had much die off. DS (baby) gets two drops of ox el a day, in divided doses. It is one drop per ten pounds of body weight, up to 7 drops three times a day for an adult.<br><br>
I can't increase our doses yet as DH just paid for a vasectomy (eek! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">) so we'll wait for next pay day and restock. So I'm going to stay at this pace until then so it lasts, which is two sachets for me, one for the both of them. I want to go onto three sachets and then I'm going to buy <a href="http://www.calcompnutrition.com/syntol.html" target="_blank">this stuff</a>. It looks really bloody good, with bacteria and enzymes and what all else. If anyone has any experience with it, let me know. I'll be ready then for less of a "kill" and more of a re-flora-ising. Get more of a mish mash of different bacteria in my gut.<br><br>
You can get ox elem. from a few places, it depends where you are. You can do a google for it. <a href="http://www.return2health.net/shop/viewcategory.aspx?id=69" target="_blank">I get mine from New Zealand</a> as that is closest to me and a better price (if you know cheaper, pass it on and I'll take a look, NZ dollars get a good exchange to Aus dollars).<br><br>
My kefir is letting me down. I added egg shell for minerals and that perked it up some but I think I'm killing it. Bah humbug.<br><br>
Nanethiel, that is SO cool you had such great die off. When it comes to internal healing, it can be really hard to tell if you're getting anywhere. That's the beauty with yeast kills, some of us can REALLY tell we're getting somewhere. My main physical symptoms were diarrhea and headache. I even got a migraine, which I hadn't had since I went off the pill in my mid twenties. Which goes to show that the pill really helped that yeast growth back then, and no doubt it has remained at that level all these years. My poor immune system!!
 

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So far while being on just the no fenol I've been having looser stools & had some bad headaches this week. I'm hoping that's die off. Did your son have any ill effects?<br><br>
What did you use to clear the allergies? How did you find a practitioner?
 

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New symptom just emerged. Pimpels!<br><br>
The very interesting part of this is that they are in locations (front-side of neck) where I had really bad 'acne' when I was around 20. After I had been taking birth control for a few years.<br><br>
I'm thinking that if I had this (yeast overgrowth) for this long, unnoticed, .... wow!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>firefaery</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12168456"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Anything can be healed with the proper tools. You are doing great!</div>
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Thank you for this -- it really means a lot. Maybe it's the die off, but I have been really down about all of this. This encouragement is exactly what I needed. There are definitely days when you think you will never get through this, even after treating for a while. I have been at this battle for over a year now and still struggling with it. I do think the things I have added in the last month have been better, but I still feel pretty badly. I am sticking it out and will hope that it will all eventually come together.<br><br>
I have lost so much weight (not a good thing for me) and have been trying to add some foods back in. I mean I am soaking nuts and quinoa here. I never thought I would have to do things like this, but if that is what it takes....<br><br>
Thanks again!<br>
Jane<br>
:yawning: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/treehugger.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Treehugger">:Mama to Erik (11) ASD<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/ribbonjigsaw.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="autism">:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/saynovax.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="no vax"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/bftoddler.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bftoddler">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/familybed1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Familybed1">
 

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We have been taking enzymes for a couple of weeks. Trienza for my 5 year old and I and a chewable multiple protease for 2 year old (both Houston). I then got no-phenol for my 2 year old and I because he reacts to citrus. I also have been doing NAET at home for citrus. All in preparation for Threelac. I got Threelac last night along with Oxygen Elements. I started this last night for myself and 2 year old. My 5 year old is sick right now, so I don't want to add more to his body.<br><br>
We've had die off symptoms with the enzymes alone, but fairly mild.<br><br><br>
Will update more in a couple of days.
 

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I'll be reading along.
 

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Add me to the c/s, food sensitive child list.<br><br>
I had abx for the c/s, then 2 times since (due to recurring breast infections)<br><br>
5 month old son developed dairy sensitivity right after birth, and last month we have now discovered, corn, wheat and caffeine are added to this list. (seemed to develop after the 2 month vacc and next round of abx made it worse)<br><br>
I developed thrush after the 2nd abx (when he was a month old) on my nipples. I thought I had it *cleared* a little over a month ago.<br>
It was then mentioned that maybe I was getting recurring breast infections due to ductal yeast (which as a side note, my dr says new studies are saying yeast is never in the ducts.... forgot to ask to see that study)<br><br>
So I decided to do a course of candidase, gse (orally) and strong probiotics (my diet has always been pretty good so no adjustments needed there)<br><br>
I didn't notice any noticeable difference in me, and my little guy was having very dry poo's while we did the above for 2 weeks.<br><br>
So I stopped that, my naturopath helped me get the breast infections under control, and I thought we were on the road to getting really good.<br><br>
THEN, yesterday I notice a little extra pink area on one of my nipples - sure enough today the pain in starting - THRUSH again!!! (since I *cleared* it the last time I was keeping up with vinegar in the laundry, probiotics and everything else preventitive)<br><br>
How the heck did this happen again!!? (DS not, showing symptoms, never has)<br><br>
I've never had yeast problems or major health problems until now.<br><br>
I'm staring the candidase, gse (orally) again, although I'm concerned if DS shows strange poo's.<br><br>
I have APNO which I know works, but I guess it's not a good idea to use due the abx and steroid in it right?<br>
What can I put on my nips to stop the pain? (I will be going tanning, since that helped last time)<br>
What if the candidase, gse causes discomfort for DS, what are my other options?<br><br>
I hope it's okay that I asked all this here?<br><br>
My head is spinning with all the info out there!
 
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