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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>firefaery</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12160027"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Another question: what about the fact that a candida infection is at least partially if not solely dependent on biotin deficiency? Have you ever tried dealing with that and seeing if it helps to tip the scales?<br><br>
Since biotin prevents the yeast from turning into the fungal form (the dangerous one) wouldn't that be a decent option for a nursing mother? It would stop the cycle and allow for the implementation of healthy flora without having to use a drug. Oleic acid does the same, so olive oil supplementation would help as well.</div>
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I would love to hear more about this. I'm not having good luck with any yeast killers so far.... so using a drug-free remedy would be great. What is biotin found in? Or is it a supplement too?
 

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thanks for the info on l-glut, sorry i posted on the wrong thread kinda. i have them both open on my laptop and keep following them. im gonna cross post my saga, i hope that's ok! i guess they are both headed in the same direction anyway<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin">.
 

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You know, I used to supplement with Biotin - because of my son's very mild case of cradle cap in the early months. I had done some research online and when I started to take Biotin the cradlecap went away.<br><br>
It actually came back again and I had been wondering about it. It's not oozing or anything, it's just "there".<br><br>
Back then I didn't know that it could be related to yeast. Now I am putting some pieces together and it seems that Biotin could indeed have a good effect in 'treating' yeast overgrowth. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>firefaery</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12160027"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Another question: what about the fact that a candida infection is at least partially if not solely dependent on biotin deficiency? Have you ever tried dealing with that and seeing if it helps to tip the scales?<br><br>
Since biotin prevents the yeast from turning into the fungal form (the dangerous one) wouldn't that be a decent option for a nursing mother? It would stop the cycle and allow for the implementation of healthy flora without having to use a drug. Oleic acid does the same, so olive oil supplementation would help as well.</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ellasmama2007</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12162091"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">thanks for the info on l-glut, sorry i posted on the wrong thread kinda. i have them both open on my laptop and keep following them. im gonna cross post my saga, i hope that's ok! i guess they are both headed in the same direction anyway<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin">.</div>
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I'm right there with you. I've got this thread, the "Healing the Gut" thread, and the "Yeast is your friend..." thread that I'm watching, and I've posted in all three. It gets confusing!<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Nanethiel</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12162294"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">You know, I used to supplement with Biotin - because of my son's very mild case of cradle cap in the early months. I had done some research online and when I started to take Biotin the cradlecap went away.<br><br>
It actually came back again and I had been wondering about it. It's not oozing or anything, it's just "there".<br><br>
Back then I didn't know that it could be related to yeast. Now I am putting some pieces together and it seems that Biotin could indeed have a good effect in 'treating' yeast overgrowth. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"></div>
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That is really interesting. Maybe I will see if there are any safe supplements for me to try.
 

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yeah, the healing the gut tribe was the one i meant to post on but i guess we pertain to this thread too since we were c-sectioned <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">
 

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yes, I have posted MANY times about cradle cap being helped with biotin....mostly people just think that I'm crazy. Sometimes they even go out of their way to tell me that it isn't the case....really though cradle cap IS related to yeast and is also a biotin deficiency as they are very interconnected.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>firefaery</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12163779"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">yes, I have posted MANY times about cradle cap being helped with biotin....mostly people just think that I'm crazy. Sometimes they even go out of their way to tell me that it isn't the case....really though cradle cap IS related to yeast and is also a biotin deficiency as they are very interconnected.</div>
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Here is info on food sources of biotin. <a href="http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=42" target="_blank">http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...trient&dbid=42</a> (it references cradle cap as an indication of needing more biotin.) <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br><i>Excellent sources of biotin include chard, tomatoes, romaine lettuce, and carrots. Very good sources include almonds, chicken eggs, onions, cabbage, cucumber, and cauliflower. Good sources includes goat's milk, cow's milk, raspberries, strawberries, halibut, oats, and walnuts.</i><br><br><br><br>
Pat
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>WuWei</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12165187"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Here is info on food sources of biotin. <a href="http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=42" target="_blank">http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...trient&dbid=42</a> (it references cradle cap as an indication of needing more biotin.) <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br><i>Excellent sources of biotin include chard, tomatoes, romaine lettuce, and carrots. Very good sources include almonds, chicken eggs, onions, cabbage, cucumber, and cauliflower. Good sources includes goat's milk, cow's milk, raspberries, strawberries, halibut, oats, and walnuts.</i><br><br><br><br>
Pat</div>
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Thanks for posting that. Wouldn't you know... DD is allergic to almost every single one of those foods. But I <i>think</i> she's ok with me eating cabbage and cauliflower. Maybe I will have to move those up the list of things to trial asap.
 

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My personal stance on this is if you are already messing with a deficiency (evidenced by cradle cap, yeast overgrowth and hte like) while it's admirable to include foods that contain the needed nutrients you may need to level the playing field with supplementation for the time being. Of course, you need to go with what makes you comfortable...but that's my 2 cents. Once you correct the deficiency then aim for food as being your source. Again, YMMV.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>firefaery</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12165280"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My personal stance on this is if you are already messing with a deficiency (evidenced by cradle cap, yeast overgrowth and hte like) while it's admirable to include foods that contain the needed nutrients you may need to level the playing field with supplementation for the time being. Of course, you need to go with what makes you comfortable...but that's my 2 cents. Once you correct the deficiency then aim for food as being your source. Again, YMMV.</div>
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I agree that's probably true... but I honestly haven't found one supplement yet that DD doesn't react to. Everything either contains, or is derived from, or is grown on one of our major ones, like dairy, soy, or corn.
 

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try Cardiovascular Research Ltd. No corn, soy, wheat, yeast or dairy. the supplement (IIRC) is megabiotin-though admittedly I may be crossing brands. That would be a good choice for you though, assuming it does exist. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue">
 

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<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=motheringhud-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FCardiovascular-Research-Megabiotin-7500-capsules%2Fdp%2FB00014DZ70" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/Cardiovascular.../dp/B00014DZ70</a><br><br>
hmmmm, they took dairy off the label, but I'm pretty certain it's dairy free. I'd contact them to be certain.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>changingseasons</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12165330"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I agree that's probably true... but I honestly haven't found one supplement yet that DD doesn't react to. Everything either contains, or is derived from, or is grown on one of our major ones, like dairy, soy, or corn.</div>
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Have you ever tried Country Life brand? I use their biotin for both DS and myself, and it appears to be pretty hypoallergenic. Just throwing it out there in case you want to investigate it as a possibility.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>firefaery</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12163779"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">yes, I have posted MANY times about cradle cap being helped with biotin....mostly people just think that I'm crazy. Sometimes they even go out of their way to tell me that it isn't the case....really though cradle cap IS related to yeast and is also a biotin deficiency as they are very interconnected.</div>
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i'm so excited to give biotin a try..dd has had cc since birth<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">
 

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That's exactly what I was thinking, too...<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>changingseasons</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12165214"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Wouldn't you know... DD is allergic to almost every single one of those foods.</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MotherWren</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12160696"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">This post wasn't addressed to me but I actually stopped taking Threelac when I was nursing because I just couldn't get 100% comfortable with it due to some things that I had read. <a href="http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com/threelacreview.html" target="_blank">This</a> article has some of the "bad bacteria" info, if you scroll about half way down. Here's a quote from the article:<br><br><br><a href="http://www.jci.org/articles/view/29021" target="_blank">Here's</a> a research article on <i>Enterococcus faecalis.</i> I am not great with dissecting research myself, but thought it might be of interest...</div>
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This is a relevant concern.<br>
I have to point out, even though it is irrelevant to the current issue, that some info from their site is totally false, and makes me wonder if they are worth their salt at all, such as:<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Because these bacteria are also lactic acid producing they raise the ph of the intestine. Ph is very important because good bacteria prefer an environment that is more alkaline and the oxygen it produces. These good bacteria keep yeast under control.<br><br>
The small intestine is supposed to be slightly alkaline and the large intestine is a neutral ph around 7.0.</td>
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<a href="http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com/threelacreview.html" target="_blank">http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com...lacreview.html</a><br>
When you make something more acidic, you LOWER the pH, not raise it. Good bacteria like the ACID environment, bad guys like alkaline – in general. So the lactic acid production is a GOOD thing. The large intestine varies in pH, from acidic to neutral.<br><br>
There are a few things to note about E Faecalis. The focus on the reaction to it here in Australia has been blown out of proportion. It is allowed as a probiotic, starter culture, in the Aust. Quarantine list.<br><br>
It is also part of the normal human gut flora, in the upper (alkaline) part of the digestive system. It's about balance, as always, adding more of what one has lost in favor of yeast.<br><br>
The Naked Scientists have a great forum and always have interesting reading that isn't from just your average Joe Bloggs. This is from an article on how the gut becomes colonised from birth and info on probiotics etc.<br><a href="http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/articles/article/jemimastocktoncolumn1.htm/" target="_blank">The Naked Scientists:</a><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">The main bacterial residents at the relatively acidic top end of the small intestine are Lactobacillus and Enterococcus faecalis. Towards the bottom of this section, where the living conditions are less arduous, less acidic, and more appealing to a wider section of the bacterial community, Lactobacillus and E.faecalis are joined by other bugs such as E. coli, and Bacteroides.</td>
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(note, the acidic top end of the small intestine is the duodenum, which comes straight from the stomach so hasn't gone alkaline yet, just for the pedantic reader <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">)<br><br>
E Faecalis is part of the normal furnishings in a newborn gut and has beneficial uses (depending on the strain):<br><br><a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/105/6/1943.full" target="_blank"><br>
Enterococcus faecalis from newborn babies regulate endogenous PPARγ activity and IL-10 levels in colonic epithelial cells</a><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Here, we show that in colonic cell lines and in primary colonic cells, Enterococcus faecalis isolated from newborn babies possess the ability to regulate peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-γ1 (PPARγ1) activity through phosphorylation. This results in elevated DNA binding and transcriptional activation of downstream target genes, including IL-10, a cytokine known to modulate innate immune function...<br><br><b>The colonization of the human gastrointestinal tract by microbes occurs almost immediately after birth</b>. Here we demonstrate that a strain of E. faecalis (denoted as EC16), transferred from mother to child, can regulate and activate the transcription factor PPARγ1 in colonic cell lines as well as mouse primary colonic epithelial cells. <b>This study reinforces the growing notion that microbiota contribute to mechanisms of homeostasis closely connected to postnatal endocrinological processes</b> (reviewed in ref. 21)...<br><br><b>Selective species of E. faecalis have been shown to antagonize diarrhea induced by E. coli</b> K88 through unknown mechanisms (32), but it is conceivable that not all strains of E. faecalis will have beneficial effects</td>
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What all that means in English is that it is a normal part of even a newborn gut, and is doing good things for immunity and development, including reducing the diarrhea that can occur from E Coli, and that it keeps things in balance. "Colonic epithelial cells" is referring to the colon wall.<br><br>
Now, having said all that, it is a good opportunity to mention something about probiotics, not limited to E Faecalis. And that is they <i>all</i> risk muting the immune response to them, sort of like “antibiotic resistance”. They are bacteria, after all. We have E Coli and a whole host of pretty nasty microorganisms residing normally in our gut. It isn't the organism that is the problem, it is when it gets away from the immune system, or when it overgrows. All of them have the potential to do that.<br><br>
I don't know if I've made anyone feel better or worse about probiotics with this <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">.<br><br>
Really, the key word is <i>balance</i>. Making sure you eat, breathe and in other ways consume as many strains of the good guys as you can, and less of bad guys (eg, moldy bathrooms, infected water sources...). Cleansing, keeping the immune system up to speed and cleaning house thoroughly if ever you take or do something that knocks that out of balance. Like I've mentioned though, just the way Westerners eat and live can knock that in favor of yeast, that's why we treat it and not bacteria unless we have reason to treat bacteria.<br><br>
Re <b>biotin</b>, I agree with FF about supps. I supplement with 1000mcg a day, I'd be hard pressed to eat enough of <i>anything</i> to reach that amount. I may not have stuck to it long enough for it to affect ds's itchy scalp dermatitis/cradle cap before I started yeast treatment on it, but I didn't notice a difference. I had to use an anti dandruff shampoo as first front line, he was pretty messed up and nothing else was working fast enough to give him relief. But maybe I should have waited longer. Patience isn't my strongest virtue.<br><br>
Biotin is produced by good bacteria, it is one of their jobs. That's why a yeast overgrowth favors the knock out of biotin so heavily – as FF said, biotin helps prevent it going fungal, and yeast overgrowth lessens the amount of bacteria there is to <i>produce</i> biotin, as that is the natural source of it, even though it is found in food. I supplement for DS's scalp, but also because that and B12 and many other things are affected with their is a poor bacteria/yeast ratio.<br><br>
Regarding metals, Fire, I will need another post for that as the subject deserves more attention.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MotherWren</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12160696"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br><br><a href="http://www.jci.org/articles/view/29021" target="_blank">Here's</a> a research article on <i>Enterococcus faecalis.</i></div>
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Here is another: <a href="http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:pEir_R9tD_4J:ebooks.unibuc.ro/biologie/RBL/Archive/2004/nr3/art%25205%2520smarandache.doc+enterococcus+faecalis+enterococcus+faecium+kefir&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us&client=firefox-a" target="_blank">http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a</a><br><br>
I couldn't understand the first study. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"><br><br>
Basically, the second one says that generically the enterococci bacteria have benefits as "probiotics" due to their ability to survive the GI system and *adhere* to the gut wall, displacing some other ("bad") microbials. The concern is that some enterococci bacteria are pathogenic and have developed multi-drug resistance. This study indicates some specific enterococci which are sensitive to vancomycin. The concern is that the enterococci bacteria are able to genetically alter and perhaps develop drug resistance.<br><br>
Beneficial bifudus bacteria also are able to *adhere* to the gut wall for an extended period of time, absent daily recolonization. These bacteria are considered "safe" and are MOST important to recolonization.<br><br>
Here is an interesting study which dissects the microbials in a specific traditionally made cheese. Interestingly, it has both Enterococcus faecalis and Enterococcus faecium. <a href="http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120088672/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0" target="_blank">http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0</a><br><br>
However, this article indicates: <i><b>E. faecium</b> should not be confused with the pathogenic strain called</i> <i>Enterococcus faecalis. Although often used synonymously, preliminary studies have shown that</i> <i>E. faecalis has virulent factors while</i> <i>E. faecium does not.</i> <i>E. faecalis is found mainly in animals other than humans, but it can be found in humans as a pathogen.</i><br><a href="http://www.innvista.com/HEALTH/nutrition/biotics/proborg.htm" target="_blank">http://www.innvista.com/HEALTH/nutri...cs/proborg.htm</a><br><br><br><br>
Pat
 

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This is an interesting "Probiotics 101" and more: <a href="http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.med.nutrition/2008-01/msg00269.html" target="_blank">http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/.../msg00269.html</a><br><br><i>B. bifidum is the most beneficial form of lactic acid and acetic acid<br>
production. It has the ability to:<br><br>
*Digest lactose<br>
*Ferment indigestible fibers, thereby producing more energy<br>
*Synthesize some vitamins, especially several of the B vitamins<br>
*Assist in mineral absorption, especially iron, calcium, magnesium, and<br>
zinc<br><b>*Inhibit the growth of</b> Salmonella, Bacillus cereus, Staphylococcus<br>
aureus, <b>Candida albicans</b>, Campylobacter jejuni, Listeria, Shigella, E.<br>
coli and Clostridium by crowding them out and eating the nutrients<br>
they need<br>
*Fight bad bacteria by lowering the intestinal pH through its<br>
production of fatty acids, lactic acid, and acetic acid<br>
*Absorb large quantities of ferrous ions, thereby inhibiting the growth<br>
of bad bacteria that use it for food<br>
*Help decompose nitrosamines (cancer-causing substances) and suppress<br>
the production of nitrosamines in the intestines<br>
*Help lower serum cholesterol</i><br><br><br>
Pat
 

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I have been meaning to post an update, but keep getting caught up in reading and then run out of time to post! This is the best discussion I have seen anywhere on this subject!<br><br>
I posted a while back on my issues, but in a nutshell it is leaky gut/Candida that has caused (IMO) my autoimmune problems and food intolerances. After the last C/S (3rd) and all the crap that went with it (steroid shots, antibiotics galore and infection) I really went downhill fast.<br><br>
The diet (currently on BED) changes helped, but then I knew I had to do more. I started the Nystatin over a week ago and then added in Threelac about 4 days ago. Every time I have added or changed something I have die off. It does not seem to affect the baby too much that I can tell.<br><br>
I also take VRP Kandidaplex, Biotin (5000mcg from ARG), adrenal fatigue supplements (mostly B vitamins, yeast free), milk thistle, quercetin, coq10, coenzyme A, systemic enzymes (bromelain, serrapep, Candex) and a Houston's No-Fenol along with the Nystatin. I also started drinking the Coconut Kefir today.<br><br>
It seems like a lot to do while nursing a baby, but he is 17 months old and probably needs some of this anyway. I am considering treating him more directly, although he doesn't really show any yeast symptoms. Now that doesn't mean much to me, since I never really showed any through the years either. I know that I have had Candida for many years. It is because of this very thread that I am realizing just how I really HAVE had it for years.<br><br>
I don't know what it is going to take to get rid or it or bring myself back into balance, but I hope that I can at least get back to pre-autoimmune.<br><br>
I know Diflucan is hard on the liver, but I am considering using it to rotate with Nystatin. It would be to address more of the systemic yeast and I do take milk thistle, so maybe that will help some. I have a Rx for it, so easy enough on that part. Just not sure how long to take it for and also concerned about how much gets into the milk. My 17 month old is a frequent nurser, especially at night.<br><br>
Any thoughts on this?<br><br>
Jane<br>
:yawning: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/treehugger.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Treehugger">:Mama to Erik (11) ASD<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/ribbonjigsaw.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="autism">:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/saynovax.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="no vax"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/bftoddler.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bftoddler">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/familybed1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Familybed1">
 
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