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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MotherWren</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/12160696"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">This post wasn't addressed to me but I actually stopped taking Threelac when I was nursing because I just couldn't get 100% comfortable with it due to some things that I had read. <a href="http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com/threelacreview.html" target="_blank">This</a> article has some of the "bad bacteria" info, if you scroll about half way down. Here's a quote from the article:<br><br><br><a href="http://www.jci.org/articles/view/29021" target="_blank">Here's</a> a research article on <i>Enterococcus faecalis.</i> I am not great with dissecting research myself, but thought it might be of interest...</div>
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This is a relevant concern.<br>
I have to point out, even though it is irrelevant to the current issue, that some info from their site is totally false, and makes me wonder if they are worth their salt at all, such as:<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Because these bacteria are also lactic acid producing they raise the ph of the intestine. Ph is very important because good bacteria prefer an environment that is more alkaline and the oxygen it produces. These good bacteria keep yeast under control.<br><br>
The small intestine is supposed to be slightly alkaline and the large intestine is a neutral ph around 7.0.</td>
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<a href="http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com/threelacreview.html" target="_blank">http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com...lacreview.html</a><br>
When you make something more acidic, you LOWER the pH, not raise it. Good bacteria like the ACID environment, bad guys like alkaline – in general. So the lactic acid production is a GOOD thing. The large intestine varies in pH, from acidic to neutral.<br><br>
There are a few things to note about E Faecalis. The focus on the reaction to it here in Australia has been blown out of proportion. It is allowed as a probiotic, starter culture, in the Aust. Quarantine list.<br><br>
It is also part of the normal human gut flora, in the upper (alkaline) part of the digestive system. It's about balance, as always, adding more of what one has lost in favor of yeast.<br><br>
The Naked Scientists have a great forum and always have interesting reading that isn't from just your average Joe Bloggs. This is from an article on how the gut becomes colonised from birth and info on probiotics etc.<br><a href="http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/articles/article/jemimastocktoncolumn1.htm/" target="_blank">The Naked Scientists:</a><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">The main bacterial residents at the relatively acidic top end of the small intestine are Lactobacillus and Enterococcus faecalis. Towards the bottom of this section, where the living conditions are less arduous, less acidic, and more appealing to a wider section of the bacterial community, Lactobacillus and E.faecalis are joined by other bugs such as E. coli, and Bacteroides.</td>
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(note, the acidic top end of the small intestine is the duodenum, which comes straight from the stomach so hasn't gone alkaline yet, just for the pedantic reader <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">)<br><br>
E Faecalis is part of the normal furnishings in a newborn gut and has beneficial uses (depending on the strain):<br><br><a href="http://www.pnas.org/content/105/6/1943.full" target="_blank"><br>
Enterococcus faecalis from newborn babies regulate endogenous PPARγ activity and IL-10 levels in colonic epithelial cells</a><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Here, we show that in colonic cell lines and in primary colonic cells, Enterococcus faecalis isolated from newborn babies possess the ability to regulate peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-γ1 (PPARγ1) activity through phosphorylation. This results in elevated DNA binding and transcriptional activation of downstream target genes, including IL-10, a cytokine known to modulate innate immune function...<br><br><b>The colonization of the human gastrointestinal tract by microbes occurs almost immediately after birth</b>. Here we demonstrate that a strain of E. faecalis (denoted as EC16), transferred from mother to child, can regulate and activate the transcription factor PPARγ1 in colonic cell lines as well as mouse primary colonic epithelial cells. <b>This study reinforces the growing notion that microbiota contribute to mechanisms of homeostasis closely connected to postnatal endocrinological processes</b> (reviewed in ref. 21)...<br><br><b>Selective species of E. faecalis have been shown to antagonize diarrhea induced by E. coli</b> K88 through unknown mechanisms (32), but it is conceivable that not all strains of E. faecalis will have beneficial effects</td>
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What all that means in English is that it is a normal part of even a newborn gut, and is doing good things for immunity and development, including reducing the diarrhea that can occur from E Coli, and that it keeps things in balance. "Colonic epithelial cells" is referring to the colon wall.<br><br>
Now, having said all that, it is a good opportunity to mention something about probiotics, not limited to E Faecalis. And that is they <i>all</i> risk muting the immune response to them, sort of like “antibiotic resistance”. They are bacteria, after all. We have E Coli and a whole host of pretty nasty microorganisms residing normally in our gut. It isn't the organism that is the problem, it is when it gets away from the immune system, or when it overgrows. All of them have the potential to do that.<br><br>
I don't know if I've made anyone feel better or worse about probiotics with this <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">.<br><br>
Really, the key word is <i>balance</i>. Making sure you eat, breathe and in other ways consume as many strains of the good guys as you can, and less of bad guys (eg, moldy bathrooms, infected water sources...). Cleansing, keeping the immune system up to speed and cleaning house thoroughly if ever you take or do something that knocks that out of balance. Like I've mentioned though, just the way Westerners eat and live can knock that in favor of yeast, that's why we treat it and not bacteria unless we have reason to treat bacteria.<br><br>
Re <b>biotin</b>, I agree with FF about supps. I supplement with 1000mcg a day, I'd be hard pressed to eat enough of <i>anything</i> to reach that amount. I may not have stuck to it long enough for it to affect ds's itchy scalp dermatitis/cradle cap before I started yeast treatment on it, but I didn't notice a difference. I had to use an anti dandruff shampoo as first front line, he was pretty messed up and nothing else was working fast enough to give him relief. But maybe I should have waited longer. Patience isn't my strongest virtue.<br><br>
Biotin is produced by good bacteria, it is one of their jobs. That's why a yeast overgrowth favors the knock out of biotin so heavily – as FF said, biotin helps prevent it going fungal, and yeast overgrowth lessens the amount of bacteria there is to <i>produce</i> biotin, as that is the natural source of it, even though it is found in food. I supplement for DS's scalp, but also because that and B12 and many other things are affected with their is a poor bacteria/yeast ratio.<br><br>
Regarding metals, Fire, I will need another post for that as the subject deserves more attention.
Eir_R9tD_4J:ebooks.unibuc.ro/biologie/RBL/Archive/2004/nr3/art%25205%2520smarandache.doc+enterococcus+faecalis+enterococcus+faecium+kefir&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us&client=firefox-a" target="_blank">http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a</a><br><br>
