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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am on a community treatment order which lasts for 6 months and basically means I have to take my medication including the 3 weekly injection or they can recall me back into hospital and force the medication on me. I have tribunal coming up where I am represented to see if the order can be lifted. My doc and nurse both think I will get ill again (psychotic depression) if I stop taking my medication so their written reports state I should stay on the order for another 6 months.<br><br>
Anyway here is my written statement. Tell me what you think about it:<br><br><i>An NHS website states that<br>
" Patient consent is the principle that anyone over the age of 18 has the right to accept or decline all physical interventions, from operations and injections, to help with getting dressed. Providing that a person is competent (that they understand what is going on and the consequences of their actions) and that they are acting voluntarily, the decisions of adults about physical intervention cannot be overridden or ignored." Although this is about physical treatment, I believe the same rights should be given for mental health treatment<br><br>
I would like to give you an example of where there are two patients, one with schizophrenia and one with cancer. Both patients recognise that they are ill, that their illnesses can be treated and that there would be consequences to not receiving treatment. They each have the same level of understanding of their illness and the proposed treatment (in legal terms they are both capable). Yet they are treated differently with different rights. If a person has both conditions she will be able to refuse treatment for the cancer but not for the schizophrenia. This is unfair, absurd and makes the mentally ill lesser citizens.<br><br>
The patient with cancer is also able to make a legally binding advance directive declining particular medical treatment of the illness for a future time when he loses capacity. That possibility will be denied the patient with schizophrenia.<br><br>
The NHS website states a person has to be "competent", understanding the consequences of ones actions. I understand that to stop my medication may mean that I could have a relapse and end up being readmitted into hospital. I also understand this could lead to the suffering of myself and my immediate family. Despite this I am still unwilling to take the medication that is against my personal beliefs. I believe alternative avenues can be explored such as diet and nutrition in order to stay well.<br><br>
I should have the right to refuse treatment and the right to accept the consequences even though you may consider that these consequences may be detrimental. I should have the right to choose what to do with my life, it is my life to decide about. The physically ill have the right to refuse treatment even if a refusal would lead to injury or premature death, I should be allowed the same rights.<br><br>
I am entitled to make this decision, I am mentally capable of giving informed refusal of treatment on the basis of my own moral and religious beliefs. If this is deemed an unwise decision I should still have the basic human right to make it.</i>
 

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The laws in England must be different than here in the USA . I don't know your condition and can only comment in theory. Cancer patients don't usually become a danger to themselves and their families when they are ill, schizophrenics very often are a danger to harm themselves and others. So it is apples and oranges. I wish you the best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have been diagnosed with recurring depression with psychotic symptoms. When very ill, I become at risk of harming myself, but never harm to others. I just want to be able to choose whether my life is actually worth living and I am not there yet. I want to be free of medication and to be free to choose my life path. Does that make sense?<br><br>
But good point, I hadn't thought of it like that. Thank you x
 

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I think you should have the freedom to choose. But then what happens to your kids? Do you have to live away from them when you are ill? I cannot imagine being forced to be medicated but I have voluntarily medicated myself for the sake of my kids, I mean I have anxiety, which is severe enough for me to do something about but, I had the right to choose this. It must be awful.<br>
Until your rights change can you see any positives in this? Is it making you able to better parent or better function?<br>
I cannot imagine your situation but I can imagine that not having psychotic episodes would be beneficial. it is very Orwellian all the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I spent most of last year in hospital being medicated against my will. Now I am still medicated against my will, but my treatment order means I get to stay at home with my kids. When well I function very highly and am a good interactive mum, when ill I can't function at all. I guess I need to think some more about this and what I want.
 

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where you hospitalized against your will or did you check in on your own? in the US you can only be held for a short period of time unless the court/doctors/ family decide you are a danger to yourself and others. I am being honest here in stating there must be some reason to have had to be hospitalized. I am not able to judge your mental health and won't try but I do ask if you don't want to be medicated is it because it doesn't work? you feel like giving up? or it isn't worth it? Or do you feel better able to care for your self and family with out meds? You are saying when depressed you cannot parent, if you could find the right meds to stabilize you then would it be worth it? Is it your freedom of choice and control that is most missed? A person with cancer may have the choice to die as they see fit but your illness isn't terminal and with the right caring support you could manage this illness, most cancer patients would love to have the option to manage their illness.<br>
I really hope you can get some feeling of how much your children need a stable mummy and you can see that it is worth trying for yourself and them.<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>DharmaDisciple</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13276427"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I spent most of last year in hospital being medicated against my will. Now I am still medicated against my will, but my treatment order means I get to stay at home with my kids. When well I function very highly and am a good interactive mum, when ill I can't function at all. I guess I need to think some more about this and what I want.</div>
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Does the medication allow you to function well and be a "good interactive mum" or does it not help? If it does, I think that the answer is clear: your children deserve a great mother and you deserve whatever help you need to be that mother.<br><br>
ETA: I don't mean to suggest that you should be forced to take the meds, but I'm not sure why you don't want to take them (assuming that they "work.")
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>thisiswhatwedo</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13278126"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">where you hospitalized against your will or did you check in on your own? in the US you can only be held for a short period of time unless the court/doctors/ family decide you are a danger to yourself and others. I am being honest here in stating there must be some reason to have had to be hospitalized. I am not able to judge your mental health and won't try but I do ask if you don't want to be medicated is it because it doesn't work? you feel like giving up? or it isn't worth it? Or do you feel better able to care for your self and family with out meds? You are saying when depressed you cannot parent, if you could find the right meds to stabilize you then would it be worth it? Is it your freedom of choice and control that is most missed? A person with cancer may have the choice to die as they see fit but your illness isn't terminal and with the right caring support you could manage this illness, most cancer patients would love to have the option to manage their illness.<br>
I really hope you can get some feeling of how much your children need a stable mummy and you can see that it is worth trying for yourself and them.<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2"></div>
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I was hospitalised against my will as I was at risk of taking my own life. I don't want to be medicated because I am tired of fighting and want to give up and see what happens. There is a part of me that also wants to try psychological and spiritual techniques to stay well and happy. It is mainly to do with freedom and the right to choose that I am fighting for. I guess I need to realise that my children do need me, but when they shout 'I hate you' and wipe their noses on me, it is hard to feel I am wanted, but then I don't expect them to have to show that as that is a lot of expectation to put onto my children.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Katie Bugs Mama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/13280507"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Does the medication allow you to function well and be a "good interactive mum" or does it not help? If it does, I think that the answer is clear: your children deserve a great mother and you deserve whatever help you need to be that mother.<br><br>
ETA: I don't mean to suggest that you should be forced to take the meds, but I'm not sure why you don't want to take them (assuming that they "work.")</div>
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I have no side effects with the medication, I sleep with 7.5mg Zopiclone. I function well on them and I know I should choose to take them, but one of them is an anti-psychotic (the forced injection) which can lead to TD involuntarily irreversible muscle twitching in long term.<br><br>
I want to be med free though this may have to be a life long thing...but I don't agree in filling my body with man made chemicals, there has to be another way. I want to assess my diet, look at nutrients that can help psychotic depression ( I cannot take SamE or 5HTP or St Johns Wort as I am Citalopram 60mg)<br><br>
I have the book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=motheringhud-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FUnstuck-Guide-Seven-Stage-Journey-Depression%2Fdp%2F1594201668%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1235945698%26sr%3D8-1" target="_blank">Unstuck</a> that I really want to try to help me.... not sure what other avenues to go down.<br><br>
Now I am thinking in my tribunal if I can come up with other plans of treatment that are holistic then maybe they would let me try this under guidance from my Psychiatrist.<br><br>
Thanks to all this help and thought I need to reword this before it is ready as a written statement to give to my solicitor
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I do not want to take my medication; I want to have the freedom to choose not to take it. I do not want to be forced to take it as I have been now for over 6 months. This is my position and my complaint with being on a Community Treatment Order.<br><br>
An NHS website states that<br>
" Patient consent is the principle that anyone over the age of 18 has the right to accept or decline all physical interventions, from operations and injections, to help with getting dressed. Providing that a person is competent (that they understand what is going on and the consequences of their actions) and that they are acting voluntarily, the decisions of adults about physical intervention cannot be overridden or ignored."<br>
Although this is about physical treatment, I believe the same rights should be given for mental health treatment<br><br>
The NHS website states a person has to be "competent": understanding the consequences of ones actions.<br>
I understand that to stop my medication may mean that I could have a relapse and end up being readmitted into hospital. I also understand this could lead to the suffering of my immediate family and myself. Despite this I am still unwilling to take the medication that is against my personal beliefs. I do not agree with medication and I see it as a poison that is injected into me unwillingly every 3 weeks. I want to be free from this.<br><br>
I would like you to compare me with a cancer patient. Both of us recognise that, that the illnesses can be treated and that there would be consequences to not receiving treatment. We each have the same level of understanding of our illness and the proposed treatment (in legal terms we are both capable). Yet we are treated differently with different rights. If a person had both conditions she will be able to refuse treatment for the cancer but not for the schizophrenia. This is unfair, absurd and makes the mentally ill lesser citizens.<br><br>
The patient with cancer is also able to make a legally binding advance directive declining particular medical treatment of the illness for a future time when he loses capacity. That possibility will be denied myself.<br><br>
I believe the medication forced upon me has acted as a temporary sticky plaster that has not helped me in any way and now needs to be removed by the annulling of the C.T.O. I believe there are other more important avenues for me to explore in order to stay here in this world. These avenues include diet and nutrition. I do not want to explore issues in a psychological way, as I am unable to do and cope with this.<br><br>
But stronger than medication is that of God. God will heal me, He will free me from any problems that I have, and He is stronger than any medication forced upon me.<br><br>
I should have the right to refuse treatment and the right to accept the consequences even though you could consider that these consequences may be detrimental. I should have the right to choose what to do with my life; it is my life to decide about. The physically ill have the right to refuse treatment even if a refusal would lead to injury or premature death, I should be allowed the same rights.<br><br>
I am entitled to make this decision; I am mentally capable of giving informed refusal of treatment on the basis of my own moral and religious beliefs. If this is deemed an unwise decision I should still have the basic human right to make it.
 

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If that is your decision and you can live with that then I do hope you arrange for someone to raise your kids. My kids dad chose being free of meds over his kids and he isn't that happy, and he does end up being hospitalized 4 or 5 times a year, then forced to medicate while in the hospital anyhow. He has no contact with his children- but he is free.<br>
I respect if you don't believe in medicating , then you should be free to not do it-- but please find someone to raise your children before you go off of your meds. I get your decision but I do think you are not thinking of the children that you brought into the world. They will have to live with the repercussions if they are bad.<br>
Hopefully you will find a way to make it all work
 
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