[winemal]

<p>I feel like I should be able to do it and of course the doctors and midwives here say that they will support a VBAC after 2 C-Sections, but I'm not sure if they really believe it.  I really don't want another C-Section...  I am trying to see if I can come up with the money for the FARM, but it's doubtful, though they have been very nice and said they would accept me if I got back to them quickly...  And they told me what supplements to take.  If anyone knows what the billing name for their facility is, please let me know, so I can check if my VA state Anthem insurance will cover any of it!  Or I would do a homebirth, but can't get a midwife to do it with 2 c-sections and I'm due in January anyway - not sure if anyone could get up our mountain road!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>OK, so both of my sons were on the early side.  My water broke at 38 weeks with my first and I didn't know to wait, so I went straight to the hospital and didn't go into contractions on my own.  They gave me several hours then told my husband to do nipple stimulation (surprising, huh?) and then gave me Pitocin.  Strong contractions but NO dilation, then the c-section. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>2nd boy, water broke at 38 1/2 weeks, homebirth with local direct-entry midwife, very experienced and beloved, with her assistants, one of whom was a nurse.  I hadn't met either one of them and for some reason the midwife I knew well and trusted wasn't there until the next day for an hour or so before I went to the hospital.  Maybe not knowing them contributed??  Anyway, I did go into contractions on my own, but still never dilated.  Used birthing stools, lots of walking in our woods, even sex (orgasm then contraction is a strange feeling...) but still, not even 2 centimeters dilated!  The midwife had said that she had attended "dry births" where the water had broken then taken several days to birth the baby, but for some reason they wanted me to go into the hospital to get Pitocin and see if that would work.  The reason they gave was because my husband had checked me for dilation in the morning when I wasn't really sure if my water had really broken (they taught him to do that), though he used gloves!  Also, the assistant MW "swept the cervix" several times - ouch!  Should she have done that if my water had already broken?  Went into hosp., had pitocin, no dilation at all, then c-section...  Only good part, the MW assistant - nurse who had been at our house and was very comforting went with us as "a friend" and helped me with the Pitocin contractions and even scrubbed in on the C-section!  That was very kind and cool.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>OH, and I should say that nobody was ever in any kind of distress!  No dropping of fetal heartbeats, no high-blood pressure, etc...  No one was rushing around at all acting like it was an emergency.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I just don't get it.  Why would my water break both times if I wasn't ready?  I took vitamin C but maybe wasn't getting a lot of protein?  I keep hearing constant mention of the best way to have a VBAC being to wait until the baby is ready to come - not inducing.  Well, that certainly wasn't a factor for us.  I feel like I just needed more time and, as Ina May would say, to trust the people around me.  How can that happen in a hospital?  I have a lot of white-coat syndrome...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Has anyone else had this happen to them?  I could have scar tissue on my cervix bc I had a DNC 12 years ago...  The midwife at the doctor's office says she has experience with this, but what if she isn't the one on duty?  Why would I just not dilate?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Why, why would I just not dilate?  Ugh.  I am so excited about this baby but I just wish someone could tell me what is happening and what to do.  Well, that's a lot of pressure, huh? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>That's a lot of back-story, too, sorry.  Oh, well, if you have any thoughts, please send them along!  Thanks so much!</p>
<p> </p>

 

[nugget's mommy]

<p> </p>
<p>Oh winemal - this is my story, too!  Wow - very similar except my first boy was a week late, but I still think my water broke too early.  I also went right in with him (same rookie mistake - arrgh!).  After 2 days on pitocin, he started to struggle (who wouldn't with that evil stuff) so out he came.  I was so excited with DS2, so sure that things would go differently.  I, too, took lots of vit. C.  But nope, same thing - water broke and nothing happened.  I haven't even ever had any contraction on my own, not even BH contractions.  I've only felt the evil pitocin induced ones.  I tried everything the second time - walking, nipple stim, even a castor oil induction - and, nothing.  The only thing I haven't tried is rest.  This time, if it breaks again, I am going to get recommendations of what I can safely take to help me sleep, because once my water breaks, I will not be able to sleep on my own.  Anyway, I'm not much help, but I will be cheering you on!!!  I'm not due til August, so you will travel this path first.  If you're up to it afterwards, I would be extremely interested in how it went for you and what you did - I'm going the hospital route, so that will probably be different, but if I find out anything helpful on my journey, I will be sure to post. </p>
<p> </p>

 

[TiffanyToo]

<p>Did either of you get your surgical reports? I am wondering if your membranes completely ruptured or if they may have re-sealed? What was the time frame from PROM to hospital, did you have gushes of water?</p>

 

[nugget's mommy]

<p>Tiffany Too - Thanks for thinking of this!  Every idea helps.  With my first, I did get the report.  I don't know if it said, but I do know that my water exploded out of me at a gas station next to the Philly Zoo (we were on our way there to walk around to try to help get labor going because they were going to induce me).  There was no mistaking it even though it was my first time.  He wasn't engaged at all (never dropped) and because I was naive (hadn't found mdc yet <span><img alt="greensad.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="width:15px;height:15px;"></span>) and I was worried about his cord prolapsing (a co-worker had had that happen 2 months prior when they broke her water and her baby was high), we drove right to the hospital in Delaware.  It came in waves of gushes the whole time.  My pants were soaked.  They, of course checked it and it was definitely amniotic fluid.  I know it gushed the first 24 hours and then things get a little foggy in the memory department, but I'm pretty darn sure it never resealed. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>With my second, it broke at work.  I knew he was closer to being engaged.  We had hired a monitrice to help with my hospital vbac attempt, so she came over and checked it and it was, indeed, amniotic fluid.  I knew more this time and stayed home.  It was definitely gushing in waves the whole time, just not as much fluid each time as the first time.  I was not induced this time, so I was "with it" the whole time and it definitely gushed the whole time.  I was on "resealing" watch this time because I knew it was a possibility, and it would go an hour or so without gushing, so I would get all excited, but then it would gush again. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I did research like crazy after it happened the second time.  The OB had said the only thing he could think of is there was a possibility that I don't have the right oxytocin receptors or something (I only ever got to 4cm with my first after 36 hours of pitocin).  I guess that could be (?).  What I found in my research is maybe a little more plausible, but I don't think I'll bring it up to my new doc, because I'm afraid they'll see it as another risk factor even though I am confident that it won't affect the outcome at all.  So anyway, in my research, I kept seeing blurbs like "pProm could be because of blah blah blah, <em>except in the case of Ehler's-Danlos Syndrome</em>".  So I wrote the syndrome down, but didn't look it up for like a month because in my mind there was no way I had a syndrome.  Well, I finally googled "Ehler's-Danlos Syndrome" and instantly some pictures popped up of people pulling their fingers back at 90 degree angles and their toes all the way back.  My jaw hit the floor because I can do that.  However, there are like a whole bunch of things you must be able to do to get a true diagnosis of it, and my elbow doesn't bend the "wrong" way and I can no longer bend over (keeping knees straight) and touch the floor with flat hands (I used to be able to do this but can't anymore).  All this basically means I am hypermobile, so there may be something going on with my connective tissue, which the amniotic sac is such a tissue.  I also bruise easily as described in the "diagnosis" but I do not get the "cigarette paper" scars that are described.  So if I even have it, it is a very mild case.  I have also researched and found stories of women with Ehlrer's Danlos who are much more symptomatic (it actually effects their every day life) who have had VBACs with no problems.  There is a scary type of Ehler's Danlos that does affect organs such as the heart, but even if I do have a slight form of it, it is the hypermobile type, not the scary type.  I haven't ever gone to a Dr. about it because 1) I am scared of anything medical, 2)  It doesn't affect my life at all except for the tiny chance that this is why my water keeps breaking too early, and 3) They can't do anything about it anyway. There is no cure and only management of some of the more troublesome symptoms (like some people are so hypermobile their joints pop out or they have a lot of pain, and I think some have it so bad they can barely walk because everything pops out). </p>
<p> </p>
<p>So this time, I am going to take even more vitamin C (750mg a day instead of 500).  Does anyone know anything else that would help strenghten the amniotic sac?  MSM?  Also, I just remembered that last time the Dr. did something a few days before my water broke.  I was a little wary of him doing it, but he said he found that it increases your chances of a vbac.  He basically went "in" and was very rough.  I forget now, but I thought he said he was softening the scar or something (I could be totally wrong about that but there was a reason that made sense at the time).  I just wonder, now that I'm thinking of it, if that just aggravated my already tenuous amniotic sac situation.  Can a dr. be too rough within that area, or do they always have to pierce it with that hook to get it to break?  Anyway, this time I'm not letting anyone in there near the end, just in case that's what "helped" it to break the second time. </p>

 

[TiffanyToo]

<p style="text-align:center;"><span style="color:#2f4f4f;">Sounds like he swept your membranes which can and does cause PROM. JMO he did you no favors.</span></p>
<p style="text-align:center;"><a href="http://gentlebirth.org/archives/sweepingMembranes.html" target="_blank"><span style="color:#2f4f4f;">http://gentlebirth.org/archives/sweepingMembranes.html</span></a><span style="display:none;"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:center;"> </p>
<p style="text-align:center;"> </p>
<p style="text-align:center;"><span style="color:#2f4f4f;">Here is a link on some ideas on how to build a stronger amniotic sac.</span></p>
<p style="text-align:center;"><a href="http://gentlebirth.org/archives/prom.html#Prevention" target="_blank"><span style="color:#2f4f4f;">http://gentlebirth.org/archives/prom.html#Prevention</span></a><span style="display:none;"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:center;"> </p>
<p style="text-align:center;"> </p>
<p style="text-align:center;"><span style="color:#2f4f4f;">How long did you go between PROM and augmentation?</span></p>

 

[winemal]

<p>Wow - I was really out of it for several weeks and didn't even see the replies except the first.  Oddly, I can also bend my fingers back 90 degrees and used to be extremely flexible!  How strange.  But not to that "scary" degree!  I don't know abt. my membranes resealing - it was never mentioned to me and it was definitely amniotic fluid coming out.  I did have my membranes swept (ouch, ouch, OUCH!) by the midwife's assistant the second time and I'm hoping not to have that happen again...  I'm going to take more Vit. C, too.  I've been taking 500, I think.  Also, per the midwife at the Farm, I'm alternating Borage oil and Evening Primrose Oil, taking Vitamin E and D and fish oil, as well.  She wants me to take Gentle Birth Formula, which I ordered but doesn't seem to be coming!  I need to get going on it, bc it sounds like you need to take it for 5 weeks and I usually go early (I'm 35 weeks, now).  I'm going to check out the links, and looking back, I feel like I may not have been dilating with my second, even after strong contractions, bc he was asynclitic.  I'm doing lots of Fetal Positioning work (spinningbabies.com) to help with this.  Who knows, but I feel like I can do it if I'm given enough time and have the right women around me!  Sooooo...  We're going to the Farm in Tennessee!  I'm really happy and feel like this is my best chance.  If it still doesn't work out, I'll make my peace with that later, but for now I want to do everything possible to avoid another Csection!  We sent in our deposit today! </p>

 

[winemal]

<p>Nugget's Mommy - I'm going to post what happens and hopefully things will be good for both of us; crossing fingers, sending us good thoughts!</p>

 

[Arete]

<p>This is uncanny.  This is sounds EXACTLY like my story.  It was a week before the "due date" when my membranes ruptured--a slow leak, never any gushes.  Over the next two days my midwife tried me with acupuncture, then herbs and castor oil (yuck! not doing again).  Nada.  Finally after probably close to 55 hours the non-stress test showed heart rate not so great, and she said I would have to go be induced.  Even with the awful pit, I barely ever felt a thing--not even as bad a period cramps.  Baby's heart rate started to plummet, and I'm sure you can guess the rest.  I had no idea there was a syndrome that could cause this, but I am certainly going to check it out as I want a VBAC desperately!  And I'd better check out the extra vit. c, etc., as well.</p>

 

[CookAMH]

<p>How did things go?</p>

 

[AGSmomma]

<p>My water broke a week early but the contractions that immediately followed were excruciating. I was vomiting every few minutes and unable to even breathe through the pain. I know one of the reasons for the pain was my son's posterior head position, but it still seems odd to me that the labor started out so awful. And the contractions weren't productive -- I only dilated to 4cm and then completely stalled. I am desperately hoping for a VBAC (HBAC, actually) but I don't know what I'll do if the baby is in the same position and I can't get it to shift. I tried the birthing ball, on hands and knees, walking around...I'm sure there are other techniques, but I'm wondering of anyone else has had such terrible pain and nausea in early labor? I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to better prepare for that next time. Do people who have had water births recommend getting in the tub as a way to relax when there is severe pain, or would that slow the labor? Has anyone had my experience?</p>

 

[TiffanyToo]

<p>From the PROM to 4 cm how long did that take?</p>

 

[AGSmomma]

<p>I believe it was 17 hours. It seems like a very short time for a first labor actually, and I'm sure if I hadn't been immobilized in the hospital and had the help I needed the labor could've changed course for the better and my body could've done the work it needed to do. It makes me so mad thinking about it now!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I actually don't know anything about the connection between PROM and pain in early labor -- is there one?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>At least next time I can control certain factors better, such as the support system I have around me, the midwife I work with, etc.</p>

 

[CI Mama]

<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>AGSmomma</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1283472/my-water-has-broken-too-early-twice-i-want-a-vbac-any-thoughts#post_16313978"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br>
I actually don't know anything about the connection between PROM and pain in early labor -- is there one?</div>
</div>
<p><br><br>
I am super curious about this, too.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>My water broke at 38w6d, huge gushing, no question what it was, and within 1 hour the contractions started, so I went to the hospital. Painful contractions all night, with lots of back labor & repeat vomiting. It really seemed like something productive must be happening, and I was on the ball, in the tub, moving around all I could. 18 hours after my water breaking, I got a cervical check and I was at 1.5 cm. And I made no further progress until I got pitocin at 20 hours, and even then it took 5 more hours to get to 5 cm and I only got to 10 after the epidural.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What causes this??? I will never get pregnant again, but I really want to know what happened with my one and only birth.</p>

 

[AGSmomma]

<p>CI Mama: it sounds like your experience was similar to mine, except that the Pitocin only got me to 4cm. I really think the head position was the biggest factor in both the pain level and the slow dilation, but it became an impossible situation because once I was immobilized there was no chance of getting the baby to move and getting my labor on track. Everything they said to convince me to have the c-section, that he wouldn't fit through my pelvis, that his vitals were dropping, all seems directly attributable to his position and to all the interventions that occurred at the hospital. But at that point I was weary, groggy from the drugs and worried about my baby. I didn't stand a chance! I never should have gone to the hospital.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Perhaps someone else will comment on whether PROM causes severe pain in early labor or otherwise difficult labors. It would be interesting/helpful to know.</p>

 

[Mamatoabunch]

<p>Not sure if this will be at all helpful, but anyway.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>My had PROM w/ my first pregnancy, twins. Huge gush, contraxs started a half hour later. I had a c/s for breech baby A. The rest were HBAC or UBAC.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Second pregnancy, no PROM.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Third pregnancy, small leak, labor a half hour later. Intense contraxs sooner, now in comparison, to intact waters.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Fourth and fifth pregnancy I took vit C in large doses at the end of pregnancy and waters broke pushing or just before pushing</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Sixth pregnancy I did vit C as well, but my waters broke w/ a tiny leak, it didn't get intense until the end, but slow labor in relation to my 3-5th.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Seventh pregnancy water broke pushing, also took vit C.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Eighth pregnancy water broke w/ a pop and gushes in labor. More intense contraxs through labor and pushing. I took vit C.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ninth pregnancy I am not sure if I had a tiny leak early on, but labor was easy. I took vit C.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>