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Need a quick lesson on IEP/eval meetings

1275 Views 27 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  shelbean91
Owen and I have both been ill lately (among other things...) so I haven't gotten time to do all the reading I would have liked to. So I need a crash course in how I should handle this meeting with Owen's school on Wednesday. They finally finished the AI eval (6 months after I put the request in
: ) so we're going to have a meeting to discuss the results. At this time they've told me nothing about it, I've seen no paperwork, so I have no idea what they're going to say. I am tired of being walked on and Owen not getting what he needs. But I don't know what to ask for. I bought a recorder so I can record the meeting (at the last meeting they told me lie after lie. Either the recorder will deter that or I'll catch it on tape this time). I know I'll ask for ST but how much? What else can/should I ask for?
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You are entitled to copies of the evaluation report, including any recommendations the evaluator may have made. You need to request it in writing, but I would do that today, if possible, and have them either fax it to you or pick it up at the office (if you can). You do have to ask if you can record the meeting (and they are allowed to refuse, I think) but obviously that would just make them look bad. Is there someone else who could come with you to be the notetaker? They don't even have to talk at all, just write everything down. That person's presence would certainly be a deterrent to lying or misrepresentation. Even a family friend/neighbor would be good!

Originally Posted by snuggly mama View Post
Is there someone else who could come with you to be the notetaker?
Unfortunately, no. I can't think of a single person who would come. Well, my dad would but he'll be working. My oldest sister would have considered it, but she's in virginia this week. I don't even have anyone who will watch Owen so I have to bring him with me. I'm just really hoping he falls asleep on the way there then I can just put him in his stroller to sleep.

Why the heck didn't I think of making a written request BEFORE I picked Owen up today
He doesn't go tomorrow and the school closes before I get off work so I really don't think I'll be able to drop it off. Dang. I'm going to call the school and see what I can do. Maybe, just maybe, they'll send the report/recommendations home with him Wednesday so I have a few hours to look them over before the meeting.
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Is this an actual IEP meeting? They've done evals on him but you haven't seen their reports? Well, you'll probably have to spend the entire meeting going over there findings. Take your time and ask lots of questions. Then they'll probably tell you what they are offering you. Do not sign the IEP unless they are seriously offering you everything you ever dreamed of. Just sign for attendance and then take it home and think about it, do some research about goals etc. Tape record the meeting but you need to give them written notice that you are planning on doing that.

Some resources: - search for National Research Council's "Educating Young Children with Autism" and their book From Emotions to Advocacy
Lawrence Siegel's "The Complete IEP Guide"
Lots of info about IEPs for autism -

good luck!
Tell them now (or asap ) that you plan to tape the meeting. They will want to have a recorder too and if they don't have time to get one they can tell you you can't tape.

I agree- don't sign unless it's fantastic. Ask tons of questions. Question everything. Tell them everything you want and why. Ask why he's not getting everything you want. Ask what would qualify him to get what you want.

good luck!

Did the meeting already happen? How did it go?
yup, it happened. I'm torn on how I feel but I'm typing one handed right now so I'll update later tonight!
Alright, lets see how much I can get typed out with Owen running around and climbing on me

The meeting was Wednesday afternoon and I am less than thrilled with how it went. I called them before that and asked that they send a copy of the report home. They agreed and said they would send it with Owen when he left school Wednesday at 11:30 (the meeting was for 6, so it gave me about 6 hours to look over it. Fine, whatever). So Owen gets home and instead of the report there is a note in his bag that says that because of "schedule issues" they couldn't get a copy of the report to me but I can come in at 5:30 and look over the report before the meeting. WTH? They had copies of it (I know because they gave me 2 at the meeting) so how hard is it to slip 1 copy in his bookbag before he left? Nope, not buying that one.

So I showed up at 5:30 and the person I was supposed to meet was still in a meeting. Didn't get out until 6
To make this a bit easier I'm going to copy a bunch of posts I wrote on another board (where I had a discussion about this with my sister, who beat me upside the head verbally).

I just got out of a meeting with his school. A combined parent/teacher conference and a meeting with the AI team to discuss his autism evaluation. I'm actually a little surprised at how the meeting went. At this time the AI team (a speech therapist, a psychologist, and a social worker) feels that Owen has many signs of autism, but does not meet the educational criteria. Basically- he meets the clinical criteria for autism, but it does not seem to be affecting his education at this time. When I heard that my first thought was that the school was trying to get out of providing him services. But once they explained it more it all makes a bit more sense. They (and I!) are hesitant to label Owen as having autism because that is something that will follow him for the rest of his school years. You cannot do an evaluation, say a child has autism, then a few years down the road take it back if the child is doing better. He actually seems to be doing very well in school, considering he's hardly ever there (because he's always sick
). He is very "book smart" (he's at the top of his class, which is impressive because we stuck him in a class where all the kids are older by about a year). He is still having social issues, but is doing much better than he was at the beginning of the school year. He is still a bit delayed in some areas, but is making progress every day.

So the plan right now is to keep him in the class and get him going there more often (goal is 5 mornings a week- right now he's at 2 mornings a week when he's not ill). He's going to continue in group speech therapy, and we're adding on 2 days a week of one-on-one speech therapy. His speech is still the main concern of everyone. According to his speech therapist he's still considered "pre-verbal" (basically he has the language of a baby/very young toddler still). Surprisingly they also agreed to my request that his speech therapy continue over the summer. The AI team is going to continue to observe him in the classroom and make sure he is progressing. As needed we will have more meetings and evaluations if anyone feels he is not progressing as he should. Before he leaves preschool he will have another AI eval done. We are also going to try and keep Owen in the same classroom with the same teacher next year, as we all think that would be the best for him since he's finally warming up to her.

The occupational therapist was not at this meeting (someone goofed and didn't invite her
) so we still do not have the results of that eval. The ST is going to call her and see if we can get another meeting to figure out what her eval says (that was the evaluation to determine whether Owen had SID/SPD and, if he does, whether he qualifies for OT).
~Insert beating by my sister (won't quote her though, but basically she expresses her concern that Owen is getting screwed by the school)~

Really long post there, Ally, so before I get into answering it I'm going to post some of what the papers I got say. This is off the "Autistic Spectrum Team Evaluation".

It has a whole bunch of information about Owen's background, my pregnancy, Owen's birth, etc...

"Owen visited the ******* Neurology practice September 11, 2006 and was seen by ****. Based on that evaluation/consultation it was the doctor's impression that Owen meets the clinical criteria for autism. The characteristics that he acknowledged were delays in speech and language, restricted and steroetypic behaviors, and social difficulty. His recommendations were to have Owen work closely with the school district to get the services that Owen requires so he can achieve as much as possible. Also he felt it would be important to have Owen in groups with other children for play social interaction. Finally Dr. ***** recommends speech therapy."

blah blah blah....

"Owen seems to have some symptoms of mild autism. He has some sensory issues and is less social than many of his classmates at *****. During my observation at *****, he was less socially engaged but did not actively reject social intercourse with teacher or other students. When his grandfather came to pick him up, Owen smiled and greeted him verbally. He seemed emotionally attached to his grandfather. While Owen does have some symptoms similar to autistic children, I do not feel that it can be concluded that Owen meets the educational criteria for certification as autistic impaired. Owen has had very little time in school and during those three months has made much progress academically and socially. If Owen was in school on a daily basis the rest of this year, we would be in a much better position to evaluate his eligibility as autistic impaired. We may want to reconsider Owen's status at a future date, if he does not seem to be continuing to progress or if he regresses." (That was all from the social worker)

From the school psychologist...

"Results of this evaluation in accordance with the Michigan Special Education laws indicate that this student does possess some characteristics of an autistic impaired youngster however based on the educational criteria he does not appear eligible at this time. It is the hope of the AI team that Owen will continue to spend more and more time in preschool as it is provided. Owen has shown some good gains based on his reduced schedule of school attendance. It would be important to see how much more he would respond to preschool interventions in his special education class if his frequency of attendance was increased. Owen seems to have adjusted more just in the short time it has taken to complete this evaluation. It appears premature at this time to recommend eligibility for a disability that would last throughout his entire school career. Having said that, Owen continues to qualify for services and it is felt that any accomodations or interventions that suit children with AI characteristics would be preferred. Also it is important to note that in following Owen's progress it may be warrented to revisit this evaluation in the future in particular prior to his exit from preschool and enrollment in kindergarten."

They said that they will give him any services they would have if he had the diagnosis (which, in our area, is next to nothing anyway). I asked what other services they would offer if he *did* have the diagnosis and they said there is nothing else they can do, other than the preschool, ST, and having the AI team observe him and keep an eye on how things are going, because he does not have severe enough autism where it is interferring with his education.

He's getting ST (and they even agreed to continue in the summer which is a SHOCK because every parent I've talked to from the school says they haven't been able to get ST continued through the summer). He's getting preschool. He's not getting any behavioral therapy because they said he doesn't have any issues with his behavior at school
His teacher said that he is not a problem in the classroom and he's gotten a ton better at listening to her and doing what she asks. From everything I've heard (from the AI team, who has been observing him, and from his teacher) he does not have many behavioral problems at school (outside the normal 3 year old stuff). Now.... at home..... that's a different story. But the school doesn't HAVE to provide therapy for issues outside of the school.

Well, first of all the IEP was signed in October (yeah, remember that whole thing? Uh-huh.... that was the actual IEP I signed. Never again). They had written up an adendum (spelling is sooo off on that) to add to the original IEP. And I did sign it because, honestly, I can't imagine what else they could offer Owen if he had the autism diagnosis. They aren't going to give him any BT, because they already determined his behavior is not affecting his education. And that's all they're concerned about. But I did get another copy to send to Owen's neurologist to get his opinion.

As far as OT goes, I'm still waiting on that eval. The ST is going to talk to the OT and see why it's taking so long (she's already gotten my part and Owen's teacher said the OT has been in to observe Owen several times already). So as long as he does get some OT then I really don't know what else I would ask for right now.

Just have a minute because Jason just called but wanted to say that the "tests administered and evaluation procedures" used were "Behavior Assessment System for Children, Second Edition (BASC-II) Teacher Rating (~Owen's teachers name~) on 1/04/07", "Childhood Autism Rating Scale (CARS) on 12/5/06", observation- ongoing, record review, and parent input.

For CARS...... "His total score was 30.0, which is in the Non-Autistic range". They wrote specific things on 15 different categories for that one. I'll go into more details later though
And then here's my small update from today.

Well, let this be a lesson on why you should never sign an IEP at a meeting. Always bring it home to think about it
I'm not sure what my options now are, but I'll be looking into it this weekend.

I still had some faith that the school wasn't trying to screw me over, until I got a call from the OT today. The OT calls and says that Owen has a few fine motor skill delays but she believes all of them are from lack of experience and with time he'll catch on. That I agree with. Then she says that he has a lot of sensory issues that he needs help with. Yup, I could have told you that. THEN she says that she feels it would be best if instead of him getting OT at school she send home an explaination of a "sensory diet" and I work with him at home. WTH? Seriously- you don't think I've been doing that? If it was really helping would I *really* be going to her for help?? ARGH! The kids were all screaming so I didn't have time to argue with her. She's going to send all the information home with Owen on Monday along with an addendum (sp?) to the IEP that she wants me to sign. Ha. Like h*ll am I signing that. I'm going to look over the "sensory diet" and see if there is anything I haven't tried, then I'll call her up and tell her I want a face to face meeting about this. She made it a point to say that we'll keep in touch about Owen and his sensory issues and if I have any questions then call her. So I asked what I can do to help him with his food issues. She was less than helpful and basically said to keep offering him different foods. Yeah, cause I haven't already thought of that
I asked her about potty training and she had no ideas on that either other than "keep offering the potty to him but don't push". Yeah, great advice. I've been doing that already
So I can tell she is going to be less than helpful. Great, just what Owen needed
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My brain is still fried from our IEP, otherwise I'd read everything and comment, but for right now just wanted to say
and I promise to give it a good look tomorrow and see if there's anyway I can help.
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I agree they're tyring to screw you guys.

1st clue is this:
"They (and I!) are hesitant to label Owen as having autism because that is something that will follow him for the rest of his school years. You cannot do an evaluation, say a child has autism, then a few years down the road take it back if the child is doing better."
they are playing on your emotions here, your fear of labels and harm coming to him, and your wish that he will outgrow autism or that he is really OK and doesn't need special ed.
this is a common tactic to get paretns to agree to less services while kids are young and really need the intervention. in a few years, if he's acting out in 2nd grade or whatever, and you ask for more supports, then they can say he's past the age when intervention is proven useful, and because he's not autistic, he must just be forgetful, and oppositional, and emotionally disturbed. A kid with an IEP and an official disability has big legal rights. A regular kid who looks "oppositional" is just scorned.

Secondly, you spend WAY too much time talking about pre-determined plans. As if the school has an "autism package" and you don't know if you qualify or if you need it. Legally there can be no fixed package. the disability CANNOT drive the service offerings. it's the INDIVIDUALs with Disability Education Act and you're writing an INDIVIDUALIZED education plan.
Diagnosis counts int he very first IEP step, to answer yes or no "does this child qualify for special ed". the whole rest of the process cannot be driven by that, it had to come form naming his individual needs and matching services to his individual needs.
They are misleading you and wasting time by getting you to talk and think about it from a totally skewed perspective.

It sounds like they threw you one bone (more speech) to keep you content, and it was worth it to them because when they heard he had an autism diagnosis, they thought they'd be made to hire an aide or giving ABA.

*read about this process and his rights until you could recite them in your sleep.
*you can get a new IEP meeting any time with 30 days notice by letter. Bring an advocate next time... his Dr, a trained legal advocate or trained parent advocate, or a lawyer.
*Never sign on the spot. IEP "offers" don't expire.
*You can get a new OT evaluation (with better recommendations!) by writing the school that you found hers inadequate. that's all you have to say. Inadequate. then they have to pay for whoever you find to do an independant OT assessment. their only other choice is to hold a Due Process hearing to prove their is adequate. that's it- Yes, or hearing. They won't bother with a hearing over a little OT visit.

*behavior at home can effect education... not always, but it can. But if he needs BT, and he has that diagnosis, in my state the Regional Centers provide that. they do early intervention 0-3 but if you have a certain select disability, they keep you on past 3 for therapies related to everyday life. find out if your state has that.

I want to add I've made major mistakes in this process too, I only know what I do now because I got tough and educated. and I still fall short and wish I'd made better moves.
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I also need to check back later, but you'll definitely need to go to the mat on this one. If you've got a clinical dx, they really don't have leg to stand on. Maybe you should move to AZ where services seem to be better.
Okay, I'm back, with a brewing I just have to say, I totally and 100% agree with Chrissy on this one. They're playing you, trying to screw you, and using your fear of labels against you. I agree with her advice wholeheartedly, ESPECIALLY getting an advocate to take with you to the meeting. Contact your local autism society and ask about advocates, they usually provide them for free. They can ALSO help you and look over what you've got so far and help guide you in the steps you need to take next. If the AS can't provide you with an advocate, call the ARC, they also provide advocates free of charge.

About the whole label thing...a label will follow a kid. Sure. But in this day and age, the good news is, a label opens a lot of doors for more treatments and more rights than not having a label. A label is a tool to help your child. It gets you treatment for your child that you otherwise wouldn't get.

The home sensory diet is total b.s., what a crock. Get another evaluation, and if they say it's autism, go with it, don't shy away from it. Get an advocate, have them go over all of this with you. Call another IEP meeting within the 30 day window.

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it's nice to be agreed with, Finch!

about the home behavior thing. I was reminded when I saw yet another email today from somebody worried because the school is trying to cut their home ABA hours. The point for you being, schools DO give home-based behavioral therapy. I can't find a clear legal citation, I think it's a "related service", and the law there says "Related services is the term for those services a disabled child needs in order to benefit from special education." The school doesn't just have to educate, it has to provide everything a child needs in order to be able to partake of the education... RS includes things like family counseling, recreation, auditory therapy, bussing... anyway, I'm not certain that ABA is justified on those grounds. I know only that it is required on SOME ground! In order to access the curriculum (social and academic) the kid has to be able to sit, listen, process, speak, approach kids, play, not be aggressive, etc and so ABA, outside of school hours, can therefore be teaching skills that are vital to his ability to access the education and if he doesn't have the ability to access the education, he's not getting a Free and Appropriate Public Education... which they have to make happen! So that's why it's their field.

And we're about to fight for it ourselves so I need to learn more. This time we're bringing a Dr, and are consulting with a lawyer, we may need her too. not sure.

If you search for "home ABA" you will find dozens of mentions in court cases, such as this federal appeals ruling
"(8) The Deals were entitled to reimbursement for up to 30 hours per week of the home based ABA services they had provided to Zachary, and the School System was to continue to reimburse the Deals for such services until a properly constituted IEP team, which must include at least one expert in and advocate for Lovaas style ABA, had developed an IEP for Zachary that included at least 30 hours per week of Lovaas style ABA."
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Thanks! I'll reread all this info later when Owen isn't climbing on me. I'm on my way out to go jogging. I do my best thinking when I'm jogging but have been housebound for months. Finally- a day with no snow and no bitter cold temps (it's in the upper 30's, lower 40's right now). Woo-hoo!
You have good advice here. I'd also add to call the head of special ed, see if that gets you anywhere. Sometimes it's a teacher or school level problem, sometimes it's a special ed problem, sometimes it's the whole district causeing problems. IF you can pinpoint who's throwing the wrench into the works and denying the problem, you can go to the next step. You can always file a complaint with the Department of Education in your state or call a disability law office. If you've been getting EI- call your contact and ask for help. Here, our support coordinator came to the meetings with me and had some great suggestions- it also helps to cut through the BS they might try to give if you're alone.

Originally Posted by Finch View Post
I totally and 100% agree with Chrissy on this one. They're playing you, trying to screw you, and using your fear of labels against you. I agree with her advice wholeheartedly, ESPECIALLY getting an advocate to take with you to the meeting.
I totally agree!
This process is so frustrating and more complicated than it needs to be.
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Originally Posted by StephandOwen View Post
To make this a bit easier I'm going to copy a bunch of posts I wrote on another board (where I had a discussion about this with my sister, who beat me upside the head verbally).

~Insert beating by my sister (won't quote her though, but basically she expresses her concern that Owen is getting screwed by the school)~

Hey man, I totally didn't beat you upside the head...
: Just gave you my professional advice as someone who's done this for a living, and also as someone who has an autistic 3 year old as well. No head beating...maybe a wet noodle to the incompetant school district, but not to my own baby sis...

I'm still not entirelly convinced that they didn't fudge Owen's CARS score either--the more I thought about it, the more I'm not convinced he only scored a 30 (Brandon scored a 36.6 and Owen would score at *least* that...those two are pretty evenly matched in terms of autism-ness...). Not only that, but I pulled out my scoring guide and 30 is the first score in the "mild-moderate" section meaning he scored as autistic on the basic screening tests.

I'd ask them to complete the following scales on him...(one scale isn't going to tell you much--and of all the scales, CARS is the one I like the least). Here are the ones Brandon had done as part of his diagnostic evaluation:

CAB (Clinical Assessment of Behavior)
PDDBI (PDD Behavior Inventory)
Pervasive Developmental Disorder Screening Test II
Behavioral Assessment System for Children
PPVT-III (Peabody Picture Vocabulary Test, 3rd Ed.)--this is a cognitive functioning test
ADI-R (Autism Diagnostic Interview-Revised)
Vineland II
SCQ (Social Communication Questionnaire)
Checklist for Autism in Young Children

Now, that's a $2500 battery of tests and it took a lot of time for me and the child psychologist to finish them, and in addition to those were hours of observations, video footage (that we took from home), etc. So, if I had to pick the ones that I would definately request that would probably give you beyond a doubt more information than the CARS, I would pick the ADI-R and PDDBI, and SCQ...for sure the ADI-R.

The CARS doesn't really tell you much at all, and it's really subjective (the difference between "non autistic" and "mild moderate" is 1 point...and each category is judged on a scale of never, sometimes, frequently, and if the evaluator gives him a 'sometims' instead of 'frequently' just because he didn't do it a lot that day, that makes the difference on that scale. So, that's not my favorite test at all, especially when an IEP is depending on it and the evaluator has only seen him an hour or so.

So, yeah, feel free to copy my posts over here if you'd like--if nothing else, it'd help shed some light on what's going on...
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I'll be back later tonight to comment more, but I am FUMING mad and wanted to update on how the OT eval was. I got the papers from it today and am blown away. When the OT talked to me on Friday she said Owen had "a few fine motor skill delays, but nothing to worry about". I'll write a few quotes from it. Keep in mind that Owen is 41 months old.

"Owen was assessed utilizing the Peabody Developmental Motor Scale..... On the grasping subtest, Owen received a raw score of 42, and age equivalence of 20 months. On the visual-motor integration subtest, Owen received a raw score of 104 and age equivalence of 30 months..... When given scissors, Owen was unable to hold the scissors for cutting and attempted to cut the paper by using two hands to seperate the blades..... Owen was unable to fasten/unfasten buttons, fold and crease paper, or build a 3-cube bridge."

20 months! That's less than half his age!

(This next part is talking about the sensory profile)

"Owen obtained scores that indicate typical performance on auditory, visual, and multisensory processing, probable differences in oral sensory processing and definite differences on vestibular and touch processing."

"Owen has difficulty with modulation related to body position and movement and modulation of sensory input affecting emotional responses."

"Using the Sensory Profile Supplement, Owen has a "Definate Difference" Quandrean score on Sensitivity and Seeking. In reviewing his Section Scores, Owen's Vestibular Processing is in the "Definate Difference" range which may suggest that Owen is trying to get more movement input. His "Definate Difference" in Oral and Touch Sensory Processing seems to be contributing to his picky eating behaviors, his sensitivity to textures and/or clothing, and his distress during grooming activities."

Next it's talking about the Sensory Profile School Companion. It says that Owen's teacher filled it out, but she only answered 58 of the 62 items, saying that the other 4 didn't apply to him.

"Because those items were not scored a raw score total for that section or for any quandrant that contains that item could not be computed. Owen had scores in the Typical Performance range in most areas, and Probable Difference scores on the Sensitivity Quandrant and the Behavioral section. His "Less Than Others" scores on Sensitivity suggests that Owen may detect sensory input in the classroom at a lower rate than his peers."

Then it goes on to give the recommendations- No actual OT is going to be given. She sent home some "Home Suggestions" and said to call her with any questions. She feels that despite Owen being pretty darn delayed in the grasping and visual-motor integration he'll do fine with just going to preschool and learning by watching the other kids.

Oh, and then there's my favorite part
If the school is going to lie, they really need to get EVERYONE who is on Owen's "team" in on these lies. Just 5 days ago the AI team says they aren't going to lable Owen as having autism. So here's a quote from the OT eval....

"Records indicate that Owen has a neurological diagnosis of autism (Pervasive Developmental Disorder)."

Duh.... really? That's not what the AI teams is claiming

Anyway, along with the OT eval they sent home 2 pages of "Home Suggestions" (well, not really 2 pages but they stretched it out with enough spaces and large enough font to get it onto 2 pages
) and an IEP Addendum they want me to sign. So I looked over the "Home Suggestions" and they are so freaking bogus! Absolutely nothing on there is going to help (most of them I'm already doing with him). I specifically asked her for suggestions on getting him to try new foods and trying to find a way to get him closer to using the toilet (he won't even sit on it). She included NO suggestions on using the toilet. Here are her suggestions under "mealtime".

1. Have Owen help set the table.
2. Have Owen stand up to eat.
3. Identify favorite food flavors, textures, and temperatures and stick with them.
4. When Owen likes/dislikes a texture, name it for him then continue to use those words.

Now, I'm no expert, but how the h*ll is that supposed to get him to try new foods?!? Sticking with the few foods he'll eat. Great idea. I've done it for the past 3 years. It's not gotten me very far, now has it?!

The other suggestions are equally bogus and things I'm already doing (buy a mini trampoline, allow him to climb/crawl on things, provide firm pressure to help calm him).

So. Yeah. I'm not thrilled, to say the least. I am on my way out the door to go to our support group meeting (for parents of children with developmental disabilities). I will ask the leader (who is the president of the parents association at Owen's school) her thoughts on this whole thing.

Of course, any thoughts or opinions any of you have are welcome
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Originally Posted by StephandOwen View Post
Of course, any thoughts or opinions any of you have are welcome

Those are pretty much my thoughts. Honey, get an advocate, and drag those uaviolations back in for another IEP meeting. They are definitely trying to screw you. Big time.
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Originally Posted by Finch View Post
Those are pretty much my thoughts. Honey, get an advocate, and drag those uaviolations back in for another IEP meeting. They are definitely trying to screw you. Big time.
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