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Need advice on situation w/"friend"

945 Views 14 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  HelloKitty
I'm not sure where to put this, but it has to do w/ "Parenting Issues", so I'll stick it here.

I met one of my neighbors back in March. She has a 7/8mo DS, and we get along pretty well. We're both SAHMs, and we go for walks together, go into town together, just hang out during the day sometimes.

However, our parenting styles are not similar at all. She bfed for (I think) six weeks, then switched to a bottle. They do not co-sleep, do all vaxes, fed the DS cereal then baby food asap, etc. Lately, she has also been letting her DS "fuss" before picking him up.

When we first started hanging out, we kinda-sorta talked about all this stuff, but in generalities. It became pretty clear (to me, anyway) that our parenting styles were different, so maybe we'd better just agree to disagree. I don't think my neighbor decided the same thing, b/c she's constantly pushing me to try her way of doing things (like, she wants my DS to play w/a toy that she bought, or she really really wanted my DS to start eating foods before I was offering or he was showing interest). This made me pretty uncomfortable, and I tried to joke around it, brush it off, etc.

The problem is this: she lets her DS fuss/cry a LOT. It really bothers me (not in a "she's not parenting correctly" way, but more in a "OMG, how can you stand to hear your own child cry b/c he's not even mine and I want to pick him up and love him" way). When we first started hanging out, I told her that before babes were a year old, it's not possible to spoil them by picking them up when they cry. I told her that when they're infants, their wants ARE their needs, so when they cry b/c they "want" to be picked up, that means they NEED to be picked up. She acted interested and said she didnt' know that and started picking her DS up more quickly when he fussed.

So last Thursday she called me. While we were chit-chatting, she said that she had mentioned what I said to her ped, and he said that I was "wrong" (that is literally what she said, and she sounded strangely triumphant about it). She said that her ped told her that by six months, babies can learn how to manipulate mom by crying, and so they'll cry even if they "only" want to be picked up.
Whatever!!!!...... She also told me that she decided to "test" her ped's theory and that she just let her DS cry the next time. She reported that he did eventually stop crying on his own, "just like the doctor said!". Ummm.....great. Either he simply cried himself to sleep, or he finally realized that Mom wasn't going to be there for him. Either way, how sad.

I just don't know what to do from here. I've given her information and sources to find it herself, but she hasn't done anything w/it. I've even told her about mdc, but I really don't think she's interested (which is cool, everyone's different). I just don't think I can stand to be around her and her DS anymore, KNOWING that she is so gung-ho about not comforting her son. To be clear here, it's not about my way being the right way, it's about me physically being unable to listen to her son cry unnecessarily.

What do I do? Should I give her my information again? Should I just tell her that I cannot be around them as long as her DS is crying unattended? Should I play nicey-nice and "offer" to pick up her DS since she is "busy" doing whatever?

Thanks, mamas.
Kinsey
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oh...so her child is learning that when he cries..his only form of comunication..no one is going to respond. So he eventually stops crying when he realizes no one is going to come.

so her Dr. is telling her that her child should not want anything??? Only give that baby what he needs... we can't be raising children who think their wants are of any importnce to their mamas..that could give them a... well... a sense of serurity!!!!.. a knowledge that mom will be there for them.. that mom hears them and cares about them!!!

Sorry for the sarcasm.. I can't seem to repond any other way.
it makes me sad....
Well, you might tell her that pediatricians are NOT parenting experts. They are trained to diagnose and treat illnesses, that's it. So they are no more qualified to give advice on the matter than your mechanic. You can also tell her that even a sea slug can adapt to unpleasant situations. Her child was merely conserving energy: why bother trying to communicate when no-one responds?

A pediatrician is not qualified as an expert on congnitive development and it is THOSE studies that show children that young are not capable of manipulation.

I think you will probably be wasting your effort, but you might mention to her that if she is interested in hearing the studies and research by people who study this sort of thing for a living (ie. not a ped!) then you can provide her with that information.

You might say something like "Well, I go to my ped for advice on illnesses, not parenting. They have no training in that area. If you want to see the studies that show this, I'd be happy to point you in the right direction. What you want to do is speak to a child development specialist about this, not a pediatrician."

then google your heart out!
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I had a friend like this. Chances are you are not going to be able to change your friend's mind. She is going to parent like she wants to regardless of what you think. You need to decide if you still want to be her friend. I decided to stay friend with my "cry it out" friend. Yes, she is raising detached son and I am raising an attached son but I love her and her son for other qualities. How people parent is affected so much by how they were parented and you don't know what issues she might have that makes her want to parent this way.

AP parents are the minority in our society. If I got rid of all my non-AP friends then I would not have many friends left.
Someone here on mdc posted some great links that may help a mom like her believe that her child *needs* to be responded to. She seems to respect medical authority and these are studies done at Harvard...and on other place I can't remember now.

http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/1...enNeedTou.html

http://**********/general51/bab.htm

GL, that would be hard to be around. I believe if she is a loving mother she would, in the long run, appreicate your gentlly educating (for lack of a better word).
I had some friends like this who went this way with their third baby......and I just started picking up the baby when I was there and it was fussing. They'd sometimes make comments about "Oh, she's just trying to get attention" but for the most part they didn't do anything.

I know what you mean about not being able to handle a crying baby and not DO something about it. I'd either leave and say something like "Oh, I guess I'll go so you can get to your little one" or pick the baby up myself.
Hi Kinsay,

I could have written your exact post about a friend of mine. We were friends pre-children and she has a 24mo DS and a 12mo DD. I have a 9mo DD. She is very un-AP, CIO, early solids etc. She seems to think b/c she had children first she is the expert and should teach me.

EVERY time I see her she asks if DD is taking a bottle yet. Well, no not even tried her once! She is always asking what solids is she taking, is she sleeping in a crib yet......

I really dont like this constant questioning and advice so I am not going to do the same to her. I am just going to keep raising my DD in a gentle AP way and hopefully by setting a good example she will realise that there is another way.

I do sometimes find it really hard to be around her particularly if its sleep time for her DC's but I wouldnt want to not be friends b/c of her not being AP. She is still a good person. And anyway if AP moms only hang out with other AP moms how do we spread the word or set the example.
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I agree that you will not change her mind and that she will not hear anything you have to say. Ultimately, her parenting choices are her choices. No amount of information you provide will be what she wants to see or hear right now. She went looking for support and found it in a pediatrician which indicates to me that she is looking to be right about her choice. If you continue to provide information, she will probably pull back from the friendship anyway.

I think the only thing you can do is be honest. You could tell her you do not want to spend time together anymore and you can choose to tell her or not it's because it's too difficult for you when her baby cries like that. You could go out again & if the babe starts to cry & it bothers you, you could say you have to leave and choose to tell her or not that it's because the crying is difficult for you.

It think you either have to choose to accept what she's doing & find a way to deal with it when you are together or you have to stop being around them.
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Hi Kinsey,

That is tough but it sounds like you've tried to give her information and she did what she thought was best (checked with her doctor and has chosen to believe him). You've done what you can and have shared your thoughts, remember that ultimately it is her decision how she parents her kids.

I don't believe that you would like it if she tried to pressure you into parenting her way - like say she offered to "let you leave your baby with her to cry a bit since you seem to have a problem doing so" KWIM? If that were me I would be furious! Try to see things from that point of view. She is doing what she thinks is best for her family and her kids.

Unfortunetly sometimes we need to accept that our friends will not always make the best parenting decisions and bite our tongues - I need to do it a lot! Just come here and vent after you see her...


Kitty
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Piglet68
Well, you might tell her that pediatricians are NOT parenting experts. They are trained to diagnose and treat illnesses, that's it. So they are no more qualified to give advice on the matter than your mechanic.
:LOL

Absolutely! dw and I just had a similar conversation re: our ds's ped. He tried to tell us that ds should be eating solids x times a day, when daily observation told us that he wasn't interested in them at the time. Unfortunately, I must also agree with EliasMummy :

Quote:

Originally Posted by EliasMummy
I really dont like this constant questioning and advice so I am not going to do the same to her. I am just going to keep raising my DD in a gentle AP way and hopefully by setting a good example she will realise that there is another way
Often, the path of teaching by example is the best. Good luck!
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Ugh.....I had kind of avoided her all weekend b/c I just didn't know what to do. I have really been trying to be honest w/myself and decide whether or not I can just ignore her parenting choices/pressure on me to follow her lead or not.

I just don't know. She just called me and while we were talking, I could hear her DS "fussing" (sounds like crying to me) in the background. I asked if he was tired, and she said "No, he's just fussing b/c he doesn't want to eat". I was confused and asked her what she meant and she said that lately her DS "fusses" when she tries to feed him. She asked her ped about that and he told her that sometimes they just don't know what they want and to just go ahead and feed him - he'll "get over it".


I have tried telling/showing her that my DS sometimes just needs mommy-love, and if I pick him up and snuggle a bit, he'll feel better and continue playing/whatever. I also told her just now that my DS also ate a lot and then suddenly stopped being interested in food, so I backed off and now he's interested again (somewhat).

I don't know. It's tough b/c we just moved here and I don't really know many people. There's no LLL, I don't really know how to go about finding other AP parents, and she's my neighbor (so we're going to run into each other frequently).

Thanks for all your thoughts. Pretty much I agree w/those who said she's not going to change her parenting style just b/c I say to. (which is fine - all I want is for her to consciously parent - THINK about what your ped says instead of blindly following his "advice") I realize there are all kinds of parenting styles out there and not everyone is going to AP, but I'm just having a hard time. It seems like she's constantly reporting to me what her ped tells her, and I'm trying to understand why. Is she trying to "show me the light"? Is she asking me my opinions? Why is she telling me what her ped says, especially in the manner she did?

We're supposed to go for a walk together today, but DS just fell asleep, so we may skip it. Sorry this is so long, I just really don't know what to do in this situation. I'm debating myself (Just ignore it, she's entitled to parent her way VS Yeah, but I don't have to be around it or give it my tacit approval).

Thanks for letting me get it out here and try to find my way.

Kinsey
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Quote:

Originally Posted by HelloKitty
I don't believe that you would like it if she tried to pressure you into parenting her way - like say she offered to "let you leave your baby with her to cry a bit since you seem to have a problem doing so" KWIM? If that were me I would be furious! Try to see things from that point of view. She is doing what she thinks is best for her family and her kids.
Kitty

See, it's ironic b/c that's what she DOES!! (not CIO, but feeding/toys/etc) And it really bothers me b/c I NEVER pressure her to do stuff "my" way. I'll bring something up once, if she expresses interest then I'll elaborate, if not then fine. There have been several times where I've said something then let it drop, then later she's asked me more about it. That's cool!

But I do find it irritating that she keeps pushing me, especially b/c she's pushing me to do things that are not good, like give DS cereal, feed him lots of food ASAP, let him ride in a walker (um, NO!! - that one I was quite firm on). I'm totally biased, I know, but it would make so much more sense if I was pushing her to do good things, like bf or um, I don't know, HOLD her baby!?!?!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by kinsey43
It seems like she's constantly reporting to me what her ped tells her, and I'm trying to understand why. Is she trying to "show me the light"? Is she asking me my opinions? Why is she telling me what her ped says, especially in the manner she did? [/b]
If she's just randomly reporting to you idiotic things that her ped has told her, maybe you could take that as an opportunity to respond with, "Hm. That's interesting. This <doctor, parenting expert, what have you> whose book I just read says something completely different. It's amazing, because I've tried what they said and my son and I both seem much happier because of it."

Something like that. If she reports to you, she's opening the door. Maybe don't make the comment about her and what she's doing, but about you and what you're doing. It might not change her mind, but it might at least get her to stop telling you this crapola.

Good luck. It's so hard to be in that position. Obviously you won't be swayed by her ped's bad advice... maybe she'll be swayed by your example.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonfly
If she's just randomly reporting to you idiotic things that her ped has told her, maybe you could take that as an opportunity to respond with, "Hm. That's interesting. This <doctor, parenting expert, what have you> whose book I just read says something completely different. It's amazing, because I've tried what they said and my son and I both seem much happier because of it."

Something like that. If she reports to you, she's opening the door. Maybe don't make the comment about her and what she's doing, but about you and what you're doing. It might not change her mind, but it might at least get her to stop telling you this crapola.

Good luck. It's so hard to be in that position. Obviously you won't be swayed by her ped's bad advice... maybe she'll be swayed by your example.

Hey....there IS hope. I just got back from a walk (I just have to say it is HOT!!) with her. When she called me earlier today, she told me about this "diaper rash" that her son has had (and I have seen). We (she and I) both suspected it was yeast, but her ped told her it was just "normal diaper rash". He gave her a scrip for Nystantin (sp) anyway (
Why? If he's sure it's not yeast, why???).

So when we were talking about this, I asked if she ever researched stuff like that on-line. She acted like she had never even considered the possiblity (which I think is kind of funny, since I mentioned it months ago, lol). Then this afternoon when we were walking, she told me about all the info she found about yeast on-line, and that now she was sure her DS does have yeast, and WTHeck was her ped thinking?

So maybe now that she's seen that I was "right" and her ped was "wrong" about something, she'll give what I say/do a little more consideration. Maybe she'll even *gasp* question her ped's advice/knowledge!!

We didn't talk more about the CIO issue (and it wasn't an issue while I was w/her today), but I'll see her tomorrow and maybe I can smoothly introduce the subject (BIG maybe on that, I'm not very smooth) and give her some of the links you mamas have shared here.

I'm feeling much more positive about this situation. Thank you all so much for your expertise and commiseration!

Kinsey
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Quote:

Originally Posted by kinsey43
See, it's ironic b/c that's what she DOES!!
Well if she does that to you then heck go for it, give her your opinion every step of the way because it sounds like that's an OK think to do in your friendship. If she gets pissy then say "Well you're always advising me so I felt comfortable doing the same with you."

Glad your walk went good today!
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