[Korwynne]

I have a very strong willed little girl.. she's almost 3 (in about 6 weeks) but is more in line with a child two years older in terms of verbal and reasoning skills. That being said, she does often *ACT* 2 1/2, and I full expect that and don't have problems with it. We don't spank but we do use time outs...

Okay, now that I've given you a little background...

We're having issues with her talking back to us.. and being disrespectful.. constantly. She'll tell me "I'm going to do what I want to do" or "the answer is yes mommy, stop telling me no" or "if you're going to talk to me like that, you're not going to be part of my family anymore" or tonights.. "Mommy, I don't want you to talk right now. ... you need to stop... S..T..O...P... Mommy, I told you to stop because I don't want to listen to you anymore... MOOOOMMMMMY! SHUT YOUR MOUTH!"

We DON'T speak to her like that, I've NEVER told her to shut her mouth.. we tell her all the time that no matter how upset/frustrated/angry we might get, we love her more than anything.. but that sometimes we might need to take a tiny break from eachother (a timeout, if you will) to calm down so that we can remember to speak nicely to eachother...

What do I do? DH and I are feeling like we're getting upset with her altogether too much.. and we're yelling and/or using time out WAY more than we want to.. I've read a bunch of gentle discipline books - most recently "without spanking or spoiling" and "how to talk so your kids will listen..." and we're doing everything "right" but it's just not working... since she IS so verbal, she'll tell me when she's frustrated/nervous/upset/angry/whatever.. and why.. and I have explained to her that this is NOT okay at our house and how my heart hurts when she talks like that or when I have to put her in time out (etc.) We have lots of "special time" together (or her and her daddy), she's getting tons of love and attention and rarely, if ever, seems jealous of her brother, so I don't think that's a part of it - or if it is, it's a minor part.

I don't know what to do.. but this has to stop. I *know* spanking would NOT be an appropriate choice with her, plus it goes against everything I believe in... I need advice from those who have been where I'm at.. and gotten through it.

 

[lilyka]

I am not alway GD enough for this bord but you might want to read 123 magic. I really address behaviors that are more socially inapropriate (such as sassy talk) and uses what I think is the logical consequence of sending them away from the action. Take five is the words they use. You give them 2 chances to amend thier behavior and on the third time it happens they have to take five in thier room, even if they are frustrated/angry about it. they can play with toys, read books, whatever but no social interaction. they were not acting in a way that was socially appropriate, it really helped us and out younger dd was a little over three when we started using it. It helped a lot. and i never had to get angry or yell or anything. they really stress being calm and matter of fact. you start by setting clear guideline, explaining the itme outs and how you will get them. Since they get 2 chances to stop the unwanted behavior (in your case rude talking) it isn;'t like you are just lashing out unreasonable. they can see it comeing from a mile away and chose ot keep going.

there is a good thread about it further down the page but I recommend you read the book for yourself and be the judge as to weather or not it is somehting you might want to try. We had great sucess with it. it is an easy read so you won't even have to waste a lot of time if you hate it.

 

[Leatherette]

Wow. I have a pretty verbal son, but whew!

If my son is not speaking nicely to me, I tell him that I don't like it, and that I will be doing X (washing the dishes, taking care of baby, etc.) and he can come get me when he is going to be nice. I think it is a natural consequence, does not over-engage him verbally, and helps me cool off and not take a remark personally. He is very social, so he wants to engage me again and is nice.

When a child is attacking others verbally, it also helps to get them to label their feelings. I haven't read the book you read, so sorry if this is repeat....
If a child says, "I hate you!", you can say, "Are you mad? Can you say, I'm Mad?" Then validate it. "Yes, I get mad too when I can't do what I want" Give them appropriate ways to express their anger, don't give in to their anger, and don't get over-emotional.

One other thought: it sounds like, in your examples, she is telling you to stop talking often. Do you maybe talk more to her than you would to another 2 and a half year old because she's verbal? Maybe she can't take in as much verbal information as you think.

Hope this helps.

L.

 

[Satori]

and I thought my kiddo had a mouth on her... mine is fond of "STOP TALKING!" I keep forgetting to get that 123 Magic Book back from our DCP so I can read it. I've seen a lot of moms reccomend it.

 

[sunnmama]

Yes, my dd has been known to say things like this, complete with the crossed arms, wide stance, furrowed brow, and tucked chin that speak volumes in themselves.

We get "It's my choice, and I choose yes, and you can't force me!" "Stop talking like that Mommy!" (ironically, when I phase things like "How to talk..."

: ) And we've gotten the "you can't be part of the family anymore!" thing, too.

Like Leatherette, I usually focus on trying to figure out what she is so upset about, and giving her appropriate and effective ways of communicating that emotion. Just because a child this age (or even an adult my age

) *can label emotions, does not mean they will be able to do so in all situations. And, like Leatherette said, don't give in to the anger. Just validate her feelings; remain firm but empathetic toward her pov.

I also like to label her reaction (the nasty words). I let her know that what she said is rude, or disrespectful, and hurtful. These words are more concrete and descriptive than "speak nicely" or "not nice". I usually say this immediately after hearing the words, and then move on to helping her re-express appropriately.

About the "stop talking" stuff--again, Leatherette is right on. She probably is overwhelmed at that moment and *needs* you to stop talking. Maybe in calm moments you can role play these situations, and give her more respectful ways to ask you to "drop it" for a moment? For instance, she could say "I need a break from this!" or "I need space right now!" or (my dd's fav) "I need to be alone right now!", and assure her that these words will be respected (as long as she is in no danger and not harming anything/one).

 

[LoveBeads]

This hasn't been a huge problem for us (yet!) but when it has happened, I have stopped everything and fully engaged DD (squatted down and looked her in the eye) and told her that her words hurt my heart. Then I asked her if she could think of a better way to speak to me. She took me very seriously (and I am very serious about this type of behavior, I can't stand sassiness) and we worked out better phrasing together and even practiced it.

Good luck!

 

[Korwynne]

Leatherette, it's not that she needs a break, it's that SHE wants to talk.. and she never stops! She'll even tell me "I can't hear myself when you're talking" She was talking in sentances before her first birthday (at her one year checkup when she got her shots she told the nurse "I don't like that") and now she's starting to sound out words, write, etc.

We put her to bed early last night and I got a little more sleep, and I'm feeling a bit better today - but I really don't like having to reprimand her so often. It's frustrating.

I think part of her problem is that her brain just won't stop... she'll be almost asleep and then start talking about something... and I don't know how to get her brain to shut down sometimes so she can just relax.. any ideas on that one?

We do the practicing better ways to say things, talk about how it feels, etc.. and she understands.. BUT when she gets frustrated, she forgets - which I think it probably totally age appropriate. I just don't want to feel like I'm correcting her all the time - I can't imagine that would make a little person feel terribly good, KWIM?

 

[Satori]

Perhaps get her involved in something like Yoga to help her relax or martial arts to help focus her little mind? Rather then just spitting out what ever comes to it? They can start as young as 2 with the right instructor.

 

[mom2kbeth]

OMG Jodi - I just came across this thread and I could have written it about my dd!! She, too, is always talking, and frequently speaks to me in a way I would rather her not ("shut up" when she's really angry, telling me the answer is yes, that such-and-such is her choice so she can do it regardless of what I've said, threatening - she's used the "you can't be my family anymore" as well). I highly recommend the book "Playful Parenting" by Larry (I think) Cohen. I have been reading it sporadically and it has helped the way I deal with her words. She has always had VERY strong emotions - and she has always been a VERY verbal child, not crying or having an on the floor tantrum (though she will do that when she's way over-tired), but really verbalizing/yelling about what she wants/doesn't want/likes/doesn't like whatever. I've found that the Playful Parenting stuff doesn't work when she's rea;;y upset about something, but when it's something minor to her, or when she is just in a negative mood, it works wonders. If she tells me she hates me because we have no more yogurt (or something that she's upset about, but I know she doesn't think is a huge deal), I'll grab her and turn her upside down and say, really goofy, "Well I looooooove you" and that usually gets her in a playful mood; we'll wrestle around hugging for a few minutes and she feels better.
Another thing that I've done is to really limit TV watching. McKenna loves TV; I really don't. She started to watch way too much while I was at the end of my pregnancy and during the first few weeks after having Holden. We set a rule that she can watch one show in the morning of her choice. Then the TV is off for the day, and after dinner, if we are around and not involved in some activity, she can watch one more show (but this time, if it's not a video, it has to be approved by us - lots of junk on TV at night). What I've noticed is that the act of watching TV is so overstimulating for her that if she goes over that short amount of time watching, she gets really negative/angry/unable to control herself. (Not to mention that a lot of the words she is using that I don't care for have come from TV/videos - some of those kid's movies are just strewn with inapporpriate language! But that's a whole other post, lol!) It's like there is too much going through her mind when she watches TV that she just can't process it all and in the hour or so afterwards while she is processing it, she's just so overstimulated and cannot/does not control the things she says at all. Just my current expereince - take it or leave it, lol, this may have absolutely nothing to
do with you!
I also, like a PP said, try to give her more appropriate words to use when I fele that she is being disrespectful. I figure if I keep repeating them, at some point she'll start using them! She will tell me that "X is inappropriate" or that she "doesn't care for y" now, so we're at least on the right track! A funny (well, now it is) aside - when she was 2 1/2, we were camping with friends. Another child hit her over the head with a butterfly net and she got really mad and told him she was going "to kill him" (this was her catch phrase - she had no idea what it meant, only that it got a reaction out of people). I sat down with her and told her that I understood that she was angry with X, but what she was saying wasn't very nice and could she thikn of something else she could say to him to let him know how she felt ... she looked at me and said, "Yes - I'll tell him I'll K-I-L- him". Another mother that was near me told me later she was laughing so hard that she had to walk away!
Friends of ours had similar problems with their son and after eliminating wheat from his diet, have seen a remarkable change in him. That may have nothing to do with Lindsey, just thought I'd throw it out there.
Sorry this got so long! But we're going through the same things and i just wanted to share my experiences.

 

[Korwynne]

Bonnie.. ever get the feeling Kenna and Lindsey would be bestest friends if they had the opportunity?

I'll check into that book - and yoga - after vacation

 

[Terion]

when my now 16yr old was three she too was very very verbal, and was really into testing the limits of what she could say to me, I did two things, I did the "wow your really talking mean to me right now and I don't talk to you like that so I think I'm going into the kitchen and when You can talk to me the way you want me to talk to you, come and get me" I also got her a tape recorder and let her loose on recording herself, she thought this was great and started interviewing everything and everyone and making up her own songs and skits etc, it gave her an outlet and she got to hear herself and she loved it. I also encouraged her to draw her words and feelings and I also a couple of times (maybe this was wrong but she's fine really) when she was yelling at me to leave her alone and shut up, I did exactly that, but I told her first "okay you don't want me to talk to you I'm not going to talk to you for the rest of the day or the next couple of hours" and I would totally ignore her...she seemed to catch on pretty quick it's a bore not having mommy to play with....she's still very verbal, a social butterfly..and still loves to interview people hahaha

 

[mom2kbeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korwynne Bonnie.. ever get the feeling Kenna and Lindsey would be bestest friends if they had the opportunity? I'll check into that book - and yoga - after vacation

LOL - they do seem to be pretty similar. I bet they'd get along great!! I'm also thikning about looking into something disciplined for her - yoga or karate perhaps ,for the fall ...

 

[Michelle Leigh]

This thread has been so helpful for me! We had an angel, a verbal one, for years. Now, at 4.5, she's coming up with this stuff out of the blue. She doesn't watch TV, so we're perplexed.

"Mom! I'm the boss."
"I'm the boss of this house!"
"You're not my boss of me."

I whisper or speak so softly in response, "I'm your mother, and I love you. I want to give you some guidance. All children need parameters. You'll feel much more secure in life."

Today at nap I asked her, "Is your body okay? Is your mind needing something? Is your spirit getting what it needs?" Is your soul needing anything?" Amazingly, she answered all of them that she had all she needed... except soul: it needs water.

Her volume has been such a distress lately, too. (I'm pregnant and so appreciate calm gentle voices.) It always worked for us to say, "Please use your inside voice." We'd let her sing very loudly, yell, & scream on the trampoline outside. Now it's like, "Whoa!" We actually say, "Can you please turn down the volume?"

The best thing during all these little episodes is to stay calm, which is so challenging!!

We're wondering, "Terrible twos?" She was great until somewhere past 4. Where in the world is this stuff coming from?

I love the idea of Yoga! She just asked me to teach her some postures yesterday I think.

And, I love the idea of the tape recorder, so she can just knock her socks off with hearing herself talk, act, sing, dramatize.... blah, blah, blah... Here come the blank tapes tomorrow!!