need some feedback on my wiki

I'm having a look in a bit and wil come back to give you some feedback

35 people have looked at this and no one has *anything* to say?

come on peeps!

i am interested in why you don't feel it wouldn't work in an unschooling setting.

what tools do you give your children to explore a concept/idea in depth?

my DS is 7 and one of the things i noticed about him is he doesn't have any clue on how one goes about learning about a subject other than asking mom or dad. and since he is really resistant to either of us sitting down with him and "teaching" him anything, this seems like a great way to give him the tools he needs to explore what he wants to learn in depth. otherwise he has no idea on how to learn more about anything other than watch a bill nye DVD.

to me it seems like IBL *is* unschooling, in that it allows children to investigate ideas in completely self driven way.

but i *am* interested in hearing why others might think that IBL is contrary to US. healthy debate is the best way to refine one's ideas.

PS, my RB child learns best with a bit of structure, but the structure cannot be imposed by his parents... if you KWIM...

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I bolded the part that stuck out to me. For me, THAT IS how he is learning, that he intrinsically knew just what he needed to learn about his question simply by watching the DVD, and then he was done. That may be enough for him.

Part of me is left wondering if you are watching him watch the DVD and then you are like, "That's it?? Don't you want to know more? But there's so much MORE you could learn about X,Y,Z if you only knew where to look!" (Am I close?) If that's the case, I suppose you could always point out more resources or ways to figure out how to do research and then let go of what he chooses to do with that new knowledge of other ways to obtain information. Like, if he says, "Gee, thanks, Mom" and drops it, can you accept that, yk?

I think the scenario where he is truly directing his learning would look more like, he watches the DVD and says, "Man, I wish there was another DVD about human bodies!" and THEN, you say, "Hey, I bet we can find one. Want me to show ya where?" and then offering the resources/showing how to research further so he can do it on his own. (So the next time he wants to find something along his lines of interest, he can refer back to what you showed him in this scenario)

I suppose either of those two scenarios I typed up there could fit into unschooling, the key is making certain the basis is on his inquiry, coming from him in the first place, whether you wait to offer until he asks or whether you offer a resource in anticipation of a need. Hope I explained my thoughts clearly. Those are my thoughts.

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I'm not sure I've intentionally given her any, but she seems to have figured it out...

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It sounds like maybe you're expecting him to want to expand his learning in ways that look more "schoolish". At 7, my kid anyway wasn't doing that. She was sort of easing out of her Greek mythology obsession, but to use that as an example, she'd read and been read to for hours about it, listened to stories on CD, built towers to Zeus with blocks, and had spent many, many hours playing Odysseus with playmobil (no, there is no Odyssey Playmobil Playset, but she improvised well).

So, cool. That was great, she was happy, and it seemed to be exactly where she needed to be at that age. Had she explained anything about it? Well, maybe when a friend came over and she wanted to play Odysseus with the friend and needed to explain the characters. Has she evaluated her knowledge? Nope. Hands-on activities? Well, the theme of her 6th birthday party was, yes, The Odyssey, and we did create some games to go with it...

And it was fine. It met her needs at the time.

I think she's capable of all of the skills listed on the wiki, but I don't think it's necessary to incorporate them intentionally - I didn't, and I don't think that's what unschooling is about. If a kid wants to evaluate her knowledge okay - Rain did this just last week, when she was trying to figure out which French class to take. If it doesn't come up, then why bother? Take my interest in knitting, maybe - I generally only evaluate my level of expertise when trying to figure out if a pattern is too hard, and I don't often explain what I'm doing to others.

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To me it sounds more like unit studies, or Reggio... take what the kid is interested in and create structures that you hope will bring him to new levels of knowledge about that topic. I think you're assuming a linear acquisition of knowledge - take topic A to levels 1, 2, 3, 4, and then 5 - and also an interest on the part of your kid in going that far with it. Sometimes kids just want to watch the video...

So, if a kid kept watching a Bill Nye video on the human body over and over - or even if he really seemed to enjoy it the first time - I might offer more stuff on that topic, like books or a trip to a science museum, or just a weird story that I happened to know involving the human body. I might sit with him, too, and comment on the video. It might lead somewhere and it might not, and that's okay...

And I think that as kids get older, they start to think more about delving more deeply into their interests. So, maybe a 10 or 12 year old would remember that Uncle Joe is a doctor, and want to email him to see if he could see the hospital where he works some time... or he'll join a facebook Bill Nye fan page and hear about the upcoming science fair and want to do something for that. It happens organically, though, not because kids learn to follow certain steps.

hey dar, thanks for those replies!

yeah, i think part of what has lead me to this place is:

A.) my DS gets bored really easily and asks and asks for stuff to do, but doesn't want me to sit down with him and do anything *with* him. basically, i hear him asking me for more learning tools, since he doesn't have a clue.

B.)i *don't* see him figuring out these tools on his own. he isn't interested in open ended, self directed exploration unless he has some type of map to use as a guide. maybe this is where right and left brain unschoolers differ. if he has a general idea of where he is going, he is golden. otherwise, he wanders (mentally), loses interest and and his focus and then goes back to complaining he's bored.

C.) i don't see any downside to him learning an inquiry process and then applying it to wherever his interests lie. do you?

PS, i don't care about him watching bill nye 100 times. but he will watch part, turn it off and say he is bored. obviously he is *wanting* to know more.. he's a very curious kid, but he's *never* been able to spend much time self directing. he'll spend hours playing with others (esp 1 on 1), but 20 minutes is his limit of how much time he can do alone. which wouldn't be bad if he would spend time with his parents doing stuff, but anything that smacks of learning (even in the least bit), he resists as much as possible.

i am still interested in what others have to say and if anyone else has had similar experiences with their kids.

Maybe your kid needs more to do, not necessarily more to learn, though. It seems to be a value judgment on how he should be spending his time. Perhaps he senses that and cannot, therefor, use that boredom to spur creativity. What sort of suggestions do you make for those times when he's bored? I usually kick the kids outside and they do all manner of interesting, creative, and destructive things. Which, sometimes are outside my comfort level and then I feel the need to intervene.

I know that my 7 year old is needing more and more to do these days. We need lots of stuff in a variety of delivery methods, but not necessarily more "learning" things. As an unschooler I accept that they're learning all the time, though the outside world may deem certain tasks less valid than others. That's part of what us parents tend to battle with internally, but doesn't, in my opinion, necessitate intervention to ensure "learning opportunities." Everything's an opportunity.

The whole concept seems like a value judgment on the types of learning and activities that are valid.

well, when i suggest things, he automatically says no. it's his reflexive no. it's part of his sensory issues. even when he loves to do something i i suggest it, he won't do it.

i get what you are saying about value judgements, but how do i help my child who wants me to give him an unending stream of activities all day long but they aren't supposed to be activities that we can do together?

if he is open and excited about me giving him some sort of road map for doing activities on his own, how is this not unschooling? if he is not able (because of his RB learning style) to work on his own, how is me helping him in a way that he enjoys and accepts not unschooling?

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are you saying that inquiry based learning is NOT what you described above? i don't see how this doesn't fit into what i outline on my wiki. IBL is totally like you described. the child expresses an interest and the parent facilitates further exploration. IBL is always child centered... the difference between doing it at home versus doing it in school is i don't have any agenda regarding outcome other than him grooving on what he is doing.

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what does this look like when you do it? i don't understand what you actually DO to 'give him a road map'? i'm not getting the practical application.

what about just getting things out and doing them on your own and seeing if he joins in, rather than suggesting something first?

i often just get out some project materials and get started and the kids come join along. when my son is bored, a lot of things i suggest get a 'no' because they don't sound fun, but if i just get something out and do it, we do have fun. this isn't done with an agenda. i don't get things out based on what i think we should be doing. i just find something that sounds interesting.

i've talked about this a hundred times, but we have a shelf in the living room that houses lots of interesting things. when the kids are looking for something to do, they often just wander to the shelf and grab something. a lot of it is things to do individually, or they can be done with me if they like. some of it stays the same, and other consumable things i switch out frequently.

maybe your son would enjoy just having things readily available?

is his automatic 'no' a reaction to too much 'teaching' or control or bad experiences in the past or has this always been the case?

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Does it matter what it is called by others? I'm not being snarky - I just wonder why there's an attachment to the unschooling label.

I agree with Dar that I am not sure IBL as you have outlined it would qualify as unschooling by those who choose to define it for others. It sounds like what we do which I personally don't believe fits with the unschooling definition because I am not okay leaving skill development to chance. I'm also okay actively (yet respectfully) nudging a kid when s/he is stuck - which it sounds like your child may be, and crafting an intentional education with/for my kids (which also sounds like what you would like to see happen).

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Yeah, pretty much what I meant is what you responded with. It's not the IBL that doesn't fit in unschooling, it's the intention and since you say your agenda regarding outcome is about his interests then maybe it could work.

I think it matters less whether you wait till he asks or offer in anticipation of a need, YK? I agree with pp's who point out that he needs to embrace it, either way it's presented to him.

Since it's all about what he needs, and it sounds like IBL is something to give a try and if it doesn't fly for him, perhaps consider that he may not be interested/need to learn more "academically" but something of a different nature, like others here gave the idea of outdoors or projects. Or start a project of your own, even if he doesn't always want to join in, I know my kids groove on the creative atmosphere and often start their own projects. It's not uncommon for them to ask for scissors and paper or get them out themselves when I start sewing or painting. Some more thoughts.

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not an attachment, but because i don't understand why it's not unschooling. i'm just trying to get to the why so i understand the thought process.

you know, i am so glad i posted this. i was recently introduced to the idea that DS is right brain dominant. (visual spatial learner) reading everyone's posts is helping me see just how different DS *is* in the way he learns and functions. i am still trying to wrap my mind around it. i am like this too, and it's a new way to look at myself also.

i am grateful we are discussing this. it's so eye opening. man, i have a lot more thinking to do. whew.

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What do you mean by "work on his own?" What does that look like in your mind?

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see B of post number 8.

too be clear, *he* is expressing a desire to do more than what he has been doing. *he* is expressing frustration that he doesn't know where to go with what he is interested in. *he* is saying he wants to learn more, but he doesn't have a road map to get from A to B.

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i guess i don't see it as a "method for learning." i see it as a way to be able to delve deeper into a particular subject/idea/interest. how the child goes about learning is up to them. there are like 50 *ways* to learn about the water cycle. the inquiry process would be similar, the method would be up to the child. in fact, a good inquiry process would open up lots of new paths for the child to go down.

as much as i would love to say my child wakes up every day eager to work on figuring out his own methods... it ain't happening. it just ain't. i see more and more how he functions and it seems he is needing an extra nudge. in fact, i see him asking me for it.