[Danemom]

I picked up a 14 week old Dane pup on Friday that was being surrendered to us by parents who truly were at a loss. This is the first time in my 7 years that I wanted to cry for someone that was surrendering their puppy. It's the only couple that I would defend in that they did the right thing for this pup by turning him over to experienced rescuers. He drove two hours to bring him to me when he could have just put him to sleep or hauled him off to the pound. We stood outside at our meeting place and he cried buckets because he was so attached to the little tyke and I reassured him for about 30 minutes that he would be WELL taken care of and given every shot imaginable. It was a pastor and his wife that bought this pup at 10 weeks of age. They had only had him for four weeks and called us distraught because he has something going on in his hind legs and they just had no idea where to turn after their vet couldn't diagnose it. It was their first Dane and, lo and behold, he has a weak rear end and falls over while playing, walking, running, pooping and peeing. Pretty much any time he gets up he falls down. He doesn't appear to be in pain but we are very concerned about his condition and whether or not this is correctable before he is a 120 lb or more adult and can't get around. We are taking him to a specialist but I wanted to pick some brains on the boards and see if anyone in the breeding/rescuing or even just personal pet world have seen this. We are mostly suspecting three different scenarios: 1. the beginning of HOD which we have treated successfully in the past but have not seen extremely weak rear ends like this boy's 2. wobblers - not a good outlook if this is the case in a puppy this young 3. and most preferred - mama laid on him wrong and he has a pinched nerve that can be corrected. We don't know but this little boy (Bentley a.k.a. Turco for our beloved Dallas Stars) is grabbing all our hearts and we will give him the best shot possible. The following is an email from our president stating the medical history on this boy in the short time that the heartbroken owners had him. TIA for any input!! I will post pics as well when I get them downloaded. Prepare yourself for wanting to snuggle him when you see him!!<br><br>
Here is the email:<br><br>
Thinking caps please. Here is the chronology of events as I can get from the vet papers on Bentley/Turco....<br><br>
Born Jan 10 2007 Texarkana<br>
Mar 21 2007 Vet exam 18.9 pounds (10 weeks old)<br>
fecal - hooks<br>
Revolution application<br>
Deworming<br>
Warning on vet record: Your dog has been given the first vaccine in a series that requires revaccination every 3 weeks until your puppy is 16 to 20 weeks of age. Occasionally, loss of appetite, listlessness, or localized discomfort may occur. If there is severe lethargy or facial swelling, call the hospital.<br><br>
April 9 2007 32.8 pounds 3 months old (2+ wks later)<br>
2 x-rays<br>
Rimadyl injectable 50mg<br>
Rimadyl 25mg (1 pill)<br>
Rimadyl 25mg (14 pills)<br>
Pet Calcium tablet (60 pills)<br><br>
This is what is on his vet records.<br><br>
A puppy with hooks is bad. He got a dewormer AND DHPP vaccination AND Revolution (what is that for?). Two weeks later he is not holding his back end up. He's given Rimadyl injected and pill form, x-rayed with negative findings, left rear leg very weak. The doctor advised it might be congenital neuro problem.<br><br>
So, what are the chances he was reacting to too many chemicals? And Calcium supplements too.<br><br>
How to get him over this? What if he is not put together right in the rear? If he was kept in a crate outside maybe his back legs would not develop right and be weakened. We should ask about that. If that is the case, can he get stronger?<br><br>
End of email.<br><br>
We know now that he was exhibiting some awkwardness in his hind end before the shots but they chalked it up to being a clumsy puppy having not ever had a Dane before and not quite knowing what to look for. BUT it did get noticeably worse after the shots and he has gone downhill quickly in the last two weeks. His butt swings WAY out side-to-side when he walks and then he will just collapse but he gets right back up and continues to want to play and act like a puppy. He only exhibits pain if he has played for a period of time and then he will cry a little when he is laying down but isn't in excruciating pain.<br><br>
I know Joanna said she is taking a hiatus but I RRRRREEEEEAAAALLLLYYY hope that she will read this and have some ideas. Might PM her as well just in case.

 

[christyb]

The rescue I foster pulled a mom and her litter of 7. At six weeks of age they were all vaccinated (DHLPP). Pretty quickly they all got very sick. One died within a week and another four died within 4 weeks. The remaining two came to my house.<br><br>
First, Tyson came (he was 10 weeks old) and when the Rescue Director was holding him I noticed his right hind leg moving but I figured that it was because he was anxious to get on the ground. About an hour after she left I noticed that his leg was still moving. I manipulated it but no indication of pain. I noticed that as he got more tired it got worse and he would start to fall. He was taken to an allpathic vet the next day with a diagnosis of "we don't know" and prescribed "just in case" an antibiotic, muscle relaxer and steroids. I reached out to a Yahoo group I am a member of and immediately got responses that it sounded like a Distemper vaccine reaction.<br><br>
I found this video online and it looked very similar to what was going on with Tyson:<br><br><a href="http://www.neurovet.org/VIDEOS/Myoclonus.htm" target="_blank">http://www.neurovet.org/VIDEOS/Myoclonus.htm</a><br><br>
I took Tyson to a vet who practices Classical Homeopathy for treatment. I also took in Hank (Tyson's brother) who was languishing at the vet. For him all four legs were affected, he could not keep food down, he was vacant, he circled, he howled, he fell into his urine/poop, he could not get comfy - he was in really bad shape. Three days later he had a series of very intense seizures and was euthanized.<br><br>
If you think that Bentley has something similar then let me know and I can tell you what we did. You can also contact me privately if you like.<br><br>
Here's a great paper written by Dr. Pitcairn, DVM with regard to vaccine reactions. Pay particular attention to the comparative charts:<br><br><a href="http://drpitcairn.com/talks/looking_at_vaccines.html" target="_blank">http://drpitcairn.com/talks/looking_at_vaccines.html</a><br><br>
Good Luck,<br>
Christy

 

[Danemom]

Is there a video on there? I didn't see it if there is. Some of the things listed sound like they might be similar to Bentley but he isn't having seizures at all. I would love to know what you did just in case. I will read the Pitcairn article now. Thanks for the info!

 

[k9rider]

This may be waaaay off, but what about Degenerative Myelopathy? I know it's not that common in Dane's (it plagues GSDs) and it usually affects older dogs, but I met a Boxer pup at the dog park a few weeks ago with this problem. Just a thought.<br><br>
Also, what about just poor nutrition?? Were they feeding him puppy food?<br><br>
Poor little guy <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/gloomy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Gloomy">:

 

[Danemom]

They were feeding puppy food and we are suspecting that poor nutrition has had a hand in this but we are not thinking it was the cause. I haven't read up on the condition that you mentioned but will go do that now. Thanks!!!

 

[christyb]

So sorry about the link - I just copied it from an old e-mail - it looks like the site has been updated and I can't find the video anywhere but I will keep searching.<br><br>
Tyson has never had a seizure, Hank did though. I just listed all of Hank's symptoms as a reference point. All the puppies from this litter had a varying degree of symptoms.<br><br>
The medical term for the leg issue is "myoclonus". Tyson's is reduced when he is highly stimulated (out for a walk, company, etc...). It took about a week for me to see how really bad it was and how weak he truly was because he had not settled down yet (new home, new people, new dog, car rides, two different vets, etc...).<br><br>
Its gait also may reflect a degree of transverse myelopathy as well, for transverse myelopathy occurs commonly in distemper in the absence of myoclonus.<br>
The myoclonus may appear in only one small group of muscles or it may be nearly body wide; sometimes it appears to affect the diaphragm, although I have not been able to verify this.<br>
Importantly, Breazile et al, 1966 published some very interesting data indicating that the mechanism for myoclonus was located in the spinal cord.<br><br>
I believe the Hank was too far gone to help in large part due to poor nutrition but it was not the cause of the problem - that credit belongs to the vaccine. Tyson was always a large puppy and so I believe that he had extra stores to fight with and while it was touch and go for a good four weeks I think that proper nutrition helped his cause.<br><br>
What are his poops like? What are you feeding him now? How is he reacting to his food? What do his teeth look like?

 

[Danemom]

His poops are a good consistency. He is being fed raw right now. Has just been introduced to it so he is just on chicken right now. He loves it!!! He was on icky puppy kibble. His teeth look great. He appears to be a generally healthy baby other than the weak hind end. I will continue to read up on the suggestions. Thanks!

 

[Danemom]

We will be getting the puppy in to the specialist hopefully by the end of the week. She thinks we need to focus on his neck area first......<br><br>
We are worried about this little guy and his chances of getting better <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/gloomy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Gloomy">:

 

[Crunchie]

This might be way off in left field, but, for what it's worth, here's the story of one of my pups, just in case there's some useful information here...a few weeks after we adopted one of our dogs she became very lame in the back end. She had excruciating back pain (I know you said this little guy doesn't, but...) and was wobbly/had trouble moving, peeing, pooping, etc. Vets said at first they thought it was a back injury and took x-rays. The x-rays did seem to show some swelling between two discs. They gave us pain killers/anti-inflammatory drugs and sent us home, said if it didn't get better that we would be sent to a specialist for possible back surgery to repair things. The pain killers did nothing for her; she only got worse. Fast-forward a week or so (after several more trips to various vets), and we were looking at <i>no</i> diagnosis and quite possibly euthanasia. No one thought they could do anything for her, and she was suffering. Then one vet suggested the possibility of a tick-borne disease (the dog had been dumped and had been stray for awhile before coming into rescue) that was affecting her nuerologically/in the spinal column. After twenty-four hours on a strong antibiotic, the dog was back to normal. She was on the antibiotics for 3 weeks straight, and the symptoms never re-appeared and she is now a normal, healthy dog.<br><br>
So...maybe check for freaky tick-borne illnesses? They can do strange stuff! I doubt that's the case because he seems fine otherwise. I know normally dogs with eurychliosis (sp??), lymes, rocky mt. spotted fever, etc., etc., are typically very sick. But, like I said, for what it's worth I thought I'd throw it out there.<br><br>
Good luck. This is really a sad situation...I'm hoping this guy pulls through this OK for you!!

 

[Danemom]

Crunchie - tick-borne illness hadn't even occurred to me! We will definitely check that as well! Thanks for sharing that!

 

[Crunchie]

Keep us updated! It is so frustrating and sad to have one going through something like that and not have any idea how to help them. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> Good luck, I hope you get some answers soon.

 

[k9rider]

oh wow, that TOTALLY could be Lyme's disease! i have seen some human patients with odd symptoms from a tick borne illness.<br><br>
danemom - keep us posted.

 

[mom2olivia]

Danemom - I passed this on to a friend in my boxer rescue, who also has a dane. I believe her dane has wobblers and she has taken a holistic approach to his treatments and he gets accupuncture, a raw diet and some other stuff. I'm not sure how things are going with him currently, but I passed this thread along to her so that perhaps she could offer some input that hasn't already been mentioned.<br><br>
If you don't mind maybe you could PM me with your email address so that she could reply directly to you since she isn't a member of MDC. That is if she has anything more to add that hasn't already been said.

 

[Danemom]

We have thought about wobblers too. One of our foster homes has a Dane with wobblers. I would love for your friend to email me. Will PM that to you in a sec. His appointment is Tuesday evening at 7PM. Will keep everyone updated. The family that surrendered him is still heartbroken and since this was a special case we are considereding working with them on taking him back once we know what's going on with him. I truly feel that they will do anything deemed necessary including feeding raw. I think I would rather him go back to a home that loves him than try to find a different home for a puppy who might continually have issues. Normally we would never return a dog to a home that surrendered it but we feel these are special circumstances. If they take him back they have agreed to pay all medical costs that we have/will have while he has been in our care. This could be a very happy reunion.