[poiyt]

Okay - so a little background. This birth was originally going to be a HB with a midwife. Got a midwife, went to first couple of prenatal appointments - and I hate(d) her. We dont get along. I find her too scatterbrained, too flaky, not organized, and very medical. She just wasn't my cup of tea. So I called around to other midwives and none others were available for my EDD.

So I thought I could just stick it out with her. Went to another appointment, and for the 3rd time she talked about fetal death, I had to sign tons of waivers b/c I refused testing and she thought I was being "difficult".

I had known and thought that for my 3rd child (this pregnancy is mysecond) I wanted an unassisted birth - but this was going to be a transition for me, as I didnt really get a say or to experience my first, and my DH wanted a midwife at this one just to see what a labour/birth with *his* wife was like - we had watched birth videos. But given my distaste for my midwife I asked him if he would mind me looking into a UC for this one, and see if it felt comfortable for the both of us. It did. I saw my midwife a few more times - while we were deciding..just in case.

I am now about 28-29weeks pregnant ish.

Lately I have been having these feelings of wanting someone there just in case. I know there is nothing a midwife can do that myself or my husband cant. I know that I am literally a 2 minute drive to the hospital. I know bad things happen in labour - and not that I had expected, welcomed, or accepted death as an outcome - I was ready for it in the sense that I was okay with taking that responsibility.

I am not sure if its the increased pressure from family, and I really have no quams about talking about their concerns civally - I just dont like the "your stupid" comments. I have read, read, read, and then read some more. I have used itnernet sources, books, midwife texts - everything I could think of. Technically speaking - I feel prepared. I am not sure if its just labour is actually *coming* now that I feel scared - because I know its natural to feel scared, or anxious about something like this.

I have not fired my midwife officially yet, though I have not seen her in about 8 weeks.

Im now at a point where I am wavering on what to do. And the sad, it really shouldnt affect me in anyway, truth is that part of me wants to be stubborn because Ive told all these people (IRL and OL) that Im having a UC and I know they have expectations, and I dont want to hear the I told you so's I know I would. Im trying to not let that cloud my decision, because I rcognize its my decision, my baby, our birth - but I dont know how to put those thoughts completely out of my mind.

Do I keep the midwife who I absolutely hate and who is so medical she mind as well be a dr? Do I UC with my fears (I cant even pinpoint what the fear is) because fear is an okay part of the process?

I am not asking for tell me what to do advice. I guess I am seeking some perspective. From reading this, can any of you see if Im leaning a certain way? Any probing questions or thoughts you can offer that might make me stop and think? Anything really?

 

[veganmama719]

Well Lindsay, I am glad you are not asking for advice because honestly, I don't know what to tell you.
I am so very sorry you don't like your midwife, that sucks. Mine is OK. Not as good as the one I had for my first 2 babies (she is on maternity leave) but she's OK.
To me, you sound like you are leaning towards not having her there. If that is the case, is there anyone you DO feel comfortable having there in addition to your man? A sister, a doula?
Has DP read The Birth Partner by Simkin (I think)?

I am doing Hypnobabies this time because I am afraid of the birth. Maybe something like that would help you too.

Or could you have the midwife be in another room entirely? It doesn't sound like she would go for that but it mightb e worth a try.

Big hugs, I hope you can decide what you would feel most comfortable with soon.

 

[snowmom5]

I'll try to be probing without offering advice - so please take these questions as questions to ask yourself, NOT to answer to the rest of the world here on the internet. Here's one of the things I noticed, whether it means anything or not I don't know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by poiyt I know there is nothing a midwife can do that myself or my husband cant.

Are you saying that (you and/or) your husband would "be" your midwife? Is he prepared to do so, and what does that mean to you, specifically? in other words, is there a basic list of possible complications you and he are prepared to handle prior to an ambulance arriving? Things that can't wait for an ambulance, like, say, rescusitation of the baby, for example, or stuck shoulders. As for labor, to what extent would you be checking baby's heartrate during labor, or specifically during and after contractions, etc. Will he be able to recognize PPH.

Clearly you've read a lot; are you lacking confidence in your list of things you've prepared for? Or are you lacking confidence that you and/or he will be able to act correctly in response to these things in the heat of the moment? Or is it just that being prepared to do so is too much darn stress, too much for you to worry about, when you'd rather just go into yourself during labor and let someone else have to have the mental presence to worry about it all? In other words, does it feel to you that all this stuff to think about is too much mental "work," or too much of a burden, when you'd rather be enjoying the moment with that burden passed off to another?

Is fear really a part of the process? And how much fear is ok? (I'll give a personal example - for me, in my case, my contractions seem to be much more effective when I have reduced the fear as much as possible - e.g. with my fear of rupture during vbac, it really helps me to have the continuous fetal monitoring.) I think feeling safe is quite important (I've seen it discussed in articles on the fetal ejection reflex), and while obviously "feeling safe" means different things to different people, I would suggest that you eliminate as much fear as you can no matter which route you ultimately choose. I think that involves getting as close to the root of that fear as possible. Is your fear of the midwife that she's full of too much intervention? that she'll throw off your whole labor vibe? and what about the UC fears - I think you have to figure that one out for yourself - I think that "assumption of the risk" of bad things happening is different from "fear" of bad things happening. They can coexist to some extent but I think you'll be better off if you can put specific things you're concerned about into categories, even if that means writing it down - a column for assuming the risk, and a column for fears for which you have not yet fully assumed the risk.

Are you certain that the midwife you don't like is the only possible alternative to a UC? Important question: ****If you liked her instead, what would that do to your decision of whether to have a care provider present?**** And why should the answer to that question be important??

What if there existed in your area a wonderful doc but you just happened to not have come across that info because you didn't look for it - though of course that would involve a hospital - that's completely out of the question at this point?

Clearly you're trying not to let the stubbornness angle get any play in this decision, and that's important. Again, these are just questions to ask yourself, not to answer to anyone but you and your DH. Just my thoughts - don't know if they could possibly help (I'm not a UCer so that's a harder perspective for me to analyze).

 

[poiyt]

Thanks for the great responses! I would like to answer some of your questions here, not to justify anything to the online world...more to get it out in a place where I can come back to it and read it...and reread it...

1) My husband and I are not midwives, and would not be acting as such. I believe that if I wanted us to act like a midwife, then I should get a midwife - if that makes sense...

2) There is a `list` so to speak of variations of normal labour that we have read and researched and talked about that we feel prepared to handle (like resus, stuck shoulders..etc). There are some where we would hospital transfer. We arent against hospital transfers.

3) We have a fetal stethoscope, but other than that I dont percieve myself checking heartrate too often, unless labour is going on a long time in which case I would check at intervals.

4) I dont think we are lacking confidence in things we have prepared for (except for the normal never actually done it before uncertainty but we have recognized that, and thats not a concern). I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that we are lacking confidence in responding appropriately in the heat of the moment.

5) I like to be prepared, and even if I were having a midwife or a hospital birth I still would want to know most of the things I have learned - so I dont think the stress of having to retain the knowledge is getting to me.

6) I wish there was a way to not have the mental burden of birth but still be 100% responsible for it and its outcome...

7) I think, for me, some fear is part of the process. Not a blinding fear - but fear is what keeps me on my toes, keeps me learning, keeps me aware.

8) If I liked my midwife, I would be having a midwife assisted homebirth this time - no questions.

9) This is an important question - I have to think on this one - thank you!

10) Going to the hospital is completely out of the question for me at this point (unless there is a complication, or something..we arent against the hospital when there is a necessity). We had a really bad experience with the hospital with my daughter - and reliving that would just add way too much stress and anxiety to the whole process.

11) I am going to start the hypnobabies course - thanks for the suggesstion...

*thinks* *thinks* *thinks*

 

[snowmom5]

More thoughts/questions to ask yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by poiyt If I liked my midwife, I would be having a midwife assisted homebirth this time - no questions.

Why? why would a midwife you like be preferrable to a uc for you? be specific as possible when you answer yourself.

And why not the midwife you don't like - are you afraid that (a) her medical angle is going to affect outcome of your birth via more intervention than you want (negatively affect outcome as in, harm to you or the baby), or (b) her personality and/or intervention angle will ruin your birth experience? How much weight do you personally give to birth experience and to what extent are you willing to risk outcome in order to get it? And how about the reverse, which is really a different question: to what extent are you willing to risk birth experience (in all its varying degrees) for less risk regarding outcome?

Something else occurred to me - the midwives who are all booked up around your EDD - it's possible that something might open up as you get closer. Someone might deliver early, or have complications for which they end up transferring care to an OB, etc. Perhaps you could call and try to get on a "wait list" of sorts, or perhaps you could call them again as you get closer (say, in June).

 

[Sarahstw]

Ok. I'm gonna give you my brutally honest perspective (mostly because I'm not capable of anything other than that...). Just to let you know where I am coming from - I am trained as a midwife but I am not licensed in Canada where I live. I too have been considering UC, and at the present moment have asked my care provider to not touch me in labor unless absolutely necessary, and she is comfortable not being in the same room as me when I give birth unless I request her presence.

All this being said. I think that if you have been planning to have a care provider attend your birth that you should have a care provider attend your birth. If there is even a doubt in your mind about UC, then it is not for you. In my experience, people who are not 100% comfortable with UC end up transferring to hospital, and may have had a better chance at staying home even with a less-than-great (or poorly matched) midwife. Your "feelings of wanting someone there just in case" are of serious importance - if for no other reason that if there is no one to attend to you, there is no one to reassure you.
One of my least favorite things is reading people's attempted UC stories that end in transfer, when all I can think to myself is "had I been there, they would not have transfered". I've read too many of these where all that was needed was a little "no really, it's all normal, keep it up"

If you were to transfer to the hospital with this birth, would you still have plans for a UC with your third?

Quote:
Originally Posted by poiyt
I know there is nothing a midwife can do that myself or my husband cant.

I think that this is a load of hooey. Even as someone who trained in midwifery, I know that there are MANY things that neither I nor my partner can do for me, that a midwife can. I'm not about to suture my own perineum nor can either of us provide an outside perspective on any situation, nor would I be able to effectively resuscitate my own baby... I think that THAT is the interesting part about UC - that it is different from birth with a care provider, the care you provide yourself is of a completely different nature.

You are clearly poorly matched with your present midwife. I hear complaints of a similar nature about the midwives in BC on a regular basis, how sad. Have you done an exhaustive search for other available midwives? What part of BC are you in? There may still be good care providers available for your homebirth... Maybe there's even some kind of "truce" you can come to with your (as of yet not fired) midwife.... Maybe you can call her only at the very end of your labor...

I know I'm opinionated... ignore me if you feel like it

 

[ATruck]

I know you specifically asked for no advice, but could you try calling the midwives again? And making sure there are no other ones that you were unaware of? Would it help to have even an apprentice or doula there in a non-midwife capacity?

It sounds like you would love to fire your current midwife, but if she is truly the only option, it might help to talk to her about your concerns and find out if she would be willing to be more hands off than she is used to during birth, etc. Maybe she is just dense in reading what your expectations are?

To me, I think that the most important thing concerning birth is for the woman giving birth to feel comfortable and able to relax. Maybe the fear you are experiencing is a normal part of the process in deciding to go UC. I would think that you would want to get past most of that before actually having an unassisted birth. Maybe you are working through that now.

Best of luck in your exploration- it sounds hard. I hope that the right answer comes to you.

 

[yarngoddess]

I think that fear is a real part of EVERY delivery. It's something that we all feel- no matter how small- and it's how we react to that fear that matters.

I think that you and DH/DP need to sit down and really have a discussion about this situation. YOU need to analzye what you are comfortable with- and do a pro/con list. You will come to a decision that you are comfortable with, one that you can "live" with- it may still be a decision that's filled with fear....but it's one that you've made intelligently, and with respect to your DP and yourself and DC.

Hugs....

 

[plantmama]

I'm not figuring out the quotes but your comment about there being nothing a midwife can do that you or your husband can't also strikes me as a little off. With my midwife assisted home birth last baby I was completely amazed at what this woman knew and did, without really doing a single interventive thing. BUT, my dh is fairly clueless and I was having the baby

Ofcourse you can give birth without knowing anything (and it sounds like you are well informed) because it is for the most part something that just happens.

We were sort of playing around with the idea of uc this time,mostly because we will be paying for the whole thing, and decided that wasn't a good reason.
It's a hard call. Could you keep the midwife that you dislike and just call her if at the time you feel she is needed. You will probably know what you need and may want her available just in case.
Or what about a doula who is comfortable providing midwife-like support?
I know you didn't ask for advice, but it seems from reading your posts that you need an alternative.
Personally I needed so much more than what I had expected with my second birth because for my first I was alone for the entire labor and basically just did my thing with a little hand holding during the pushing etc (ironically in the hospital).
I hope you find what you need!

 

[gossamerwindweb]

For 10 years (filled with inferility and miscarriages) I have wanted a UC. I have dreamed of a UC. I have believed in UC. But I got pregnant and have had several complications and saw a homebirth midwife... then switched to a CNM that delivers in hospitals. This group of CNMs are awesome really. I like all of them. And now all of my complications are clearing up and I am feeling stronger about UC. So right now I am in flux. (I am not advising because you didnt' ask for it. I am telling you where I am). I am still seeing the CNMs. Basically hubby and I have decided that we will UC unless some complication comes up and/or I feel the need to have someone. Then we will go to the hospital. The hospital is an hour away (there is a different one 10 minutes away) In an emergency, we will go to the close one. If I just feel the need we will go to the one an hour away. But my plan even then is to rent a hotel room and labor in the hotel room until I am positive I am VERY CLOSE to pushing stage and then go to the hospital.

I guess I have let up on my beliefs enough to be flexible and do whatever I feel is best for me and baby at the moment..... if that makes any sense.

 

[SequoiasMom]

poiyt-
It sounds like if your midwife was present, it would negatively affect your birth. That needs to be avoided at all costs, especially if you can anticipate it.
As pp said, there are other options, other people that could be present to help you, your husband, the baby. Even if there are others to assist, you it can still be the UC you want.
It kinda sounds like you are stuck in the label world, like this *has* to be a birth with just you and your husband to be unassisted. If a caring friend or doula is there, it can still be the birth you want.
Like the pp said her midwife will be there, but not touching and not in the same room. Technically that is not an "UC", but it sure seems like one to me.
Take some time to listen to yourself, and what you really want. You can do it. Like you said, fear is part of the process, and over coming that fear is part of the success.

 

[elisheva]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarahstw What part of BC are you in? There may still be good care providers available for your homebirth... Maybe there's even some kind of "truce" you can come to with your (as of yet not fired) midwife.... Maybe you can call her only at the very end of your labor... I know I'm opinionated... ignore me if you feel like it

In defense of BC midwives - I have absolutely had experience with midwives more focused on the medical end of things BUT I have also had two GREAT midwives. I'd be happy to give you names if you are anywhere near Victoria. One midiwfe I know takes transfers late in the game so that mom has the best support possible.

 

[poiyt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowmom5 More thoughts/questions to ask yourself. Why? why would a midwife you like be preferrable to a uc for you? be specific as possible when you answer yourself. Something else occurred to me - the midwives who are all booked up around your EDD - it's possible that something might open up as you get closer. Someone might deliver early, or have complications for which they end up transferring care to an OB, etc. Perhaps you could call and try to get on a "wait list" of sorts, or perhaps you could call them again as you get closer (say, in June).

I think the main reason Id be okay with a midwife, is because the original intent was to have a midwife this time for this birth. its not that I think a midwife is vital to the birthing process, its not that i think I *need* them there. Its because I like making plans, and I hate when they change..lol. I was hoping this birth would be a good transition inbetween heavily controlled and moderated hospital birth (like with dd) and the way I think birth really should be (that is intimate, with only close family/friends if desired, at home, relaxed, no "rules" etc). I feel that ive gone from one end of the spectrum to the other more quickly than i could grasp.

Im leary of most of the other midwives who service my area because they all have medical backgrounds - with the exception of 1 - and I did contact her to see if she would do shadow care and be a backup, but she is going on holidays. If I go late (after july 20th) she will be back in town and would be avilable to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarahstw All this being said. I think that if you have been planning to have a care provider attend your birth that you should have a care provider attend your birth. If there is even a doubt in your mind about UC, then it is not for you. If you were to transfer to the hospital with this birth, would you still have plans for a UC with your third? You are clearly poorly matched with your present midwife. I hear complaints of a similar nature about the midwives in BC on a regular basis, how sad. Have you done an exhaustive search for other available midwives? What part of BC are you in? There may still be good care providers available for your homebirth... Maybe there's even some kind of "truce" you can come to with your (as of yet not fired) midwife.... Maybe you can call her only at the very end of your labor...

the original intent, before we met the midwife was to have an attended birth. It was at the second appointment with her that we decided that we would have an unassisted birth, but see her for prenatal care - and about 2 weeks later that I felt that was dishonest and if I was going for an UC and was refusing all the tests then I should just be honest with her..yk?

If we went to the hospital with this one, or had a midwife - at this point I think i would want to UC the 3rd for sure. As this was supposed to be the transition birth for my mind/body. Of course all that can change with life experience, this birth, my husband..etc..

I have definitely done an extensive search...oi have I looked. I am located on Vancouver Island, in nanaimo. I think we are so lucky here to have one of the best midwife schools - but in that comes the downfall od having very medical midwives...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SequoiasMom poiyt- It sounds like if your midwife was present, it would negatively affect your birth. That needs to be avoided at all costs, especially if you can anticipate it. As pp said, there are other options, other people that could be present to help you, your husband, the baby. Even if there are others to assist, you it can still be the UC you want. It kinda sounds like you are stuck in the label world, like this *has* to be a birth with just you and your husband to be unassisted. If a caring friend or doula is there, it can still be the birth you want. Like the pp said her midwife will be there, but not touching and not in the same room. Technically that is not an "UC", but it sure seems like one to me. Take some time to listen to yourself, and what you really want. You can do it. Like you said, fear is part of the process, and over coming that fear is part of the success.

I have been thinking more on this label issue - thank you for bringing it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elisheva In defense of BC midwives - I have absolutely had experience with midwives more focused on the medical end of things BUT I have also had two GREAT midwives. I'd be happy to give you names if you are anywhere near Victoria. One midiwfe I know takes transfers late in the game so that mom has the best support possible.

Im in Nanaimo...I know of a midwife located in Duncan who will travel here, but none from victoria. I do know that there is one awesome midwife in victoria...everyone I know who has had her has raved about her!

 

[snowmom5]

More thoughts - bear with me, I'm kinda thinking out loud. To me, the following sentiments seem like a bit of a conflict/contradiction (and thus your conundrum and OP; kinda like wanting to "have your cake and eat it too" which may or may not be possible).

Quote:

Originally Posted by poiyt Lately I have been having these feelings of wanting someone there just in case

Quote:

Originally Posted by poiyt I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that we are lacking confidence in responding appropriately in the heat of the moment.

vs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by poiyt Im leary of most of the other midwives who service my area because they all have medical backgrounds

If you want someone there "just in case," for "responding appropriately in the heat of the moment," that would involve them having some medical expertise/judgment, or not? From what you wrote, it sounds like for you, "too much" medical expertise is a bad thing, and that the majority of midwives available to you indeed have "too much." You're searching for someone with a "just right" amount so as to avoid excessive intervention? (as if you had a close friend who read/studied the books as much as you have but doesn't know all the extra stuff a midwife would know? just trying to help you nail down what it is you're looking for - whether that's a doula who will offer physical/emotional labor support but no medical support, or whether you really want some medical support or whether you indeed still want to UC but are just confirming your resolve).

Perhaps if you interviewed some of these other midwives, in spite of their "medical backgrounds," it's possible you may find a midwife who would make you feel more comfortable than this other midwife who you don't like. Have you really gotten the honest scoop on all of them? Or are these the ones who are unavailable for your EDD?

just more food for thought... good luck with your decision.

 

[BlessedEarthMother]

All i want to say is that a few a of the posters have suggested that maybe you could have a doula there instead. Being a doula myself, I would never attend a UC birth. The role of the doula as the only person trained in childbirth could put her in the position to be prosecuted if anything were to happen. I know that many other doulas also would not attend a UC birth.

Good luck to you. I hope that you can find in your heart the answer to your questions.

 

[koalove]

it seems to me like you are looking for "permission" to have a uc. i think you know that is a personal decision for you and it has to be made from a place of total trust in yourself and your body. im in a similar situation. 28 weeks along, dont like my midwife, havent seen her in 8 weeks, cant afford to start over paying a new one, nor did i like any that i met. i think about uc but for me, i need the peace of mind of having a idwife there because i believe my midwife CAN do things that i cant in case of emergency. like pitocin for a severe hemmorage, for example. i was thinking of asking her to just hang out in the other room while we have our birth alone, and have her standing by if we need her. would your midwife be into that? if nothing else, the midwife will clean up and get you a good meal after your birth while you rest.