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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Dr Mendelsohn died in April 1988 from complications of diabetes. I met and saw him in January that year. He was very thin and grey.

Dr Paul Thomas MD in Portland, OR, had his license suspended over his study comparing the health of his vaccinated patients with unvaccinated patients.


I'm following up with Dr Mendelsohn info.

I sounds like it's pretty common for people like Dr Thomas to lose their licenses or at the very least be punished for having a different opinion.

I always find it curious when people with different opinions are not allowed to speak or get punished for speaking. I believe that if an argument has merit it should not have to be forced on someone.
 

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Dr Mendelsohn's writings may seem dated, but to a young mother as me in the 1970s, he was a godsend! He said the same things as I had heard my DC father say for 20 years.

We as a society are operating with technology that is 100 years old and the current system wants to maintain that. Vaccines are old medicine from the 1700s that seemed to work, but not really. We still use use vaccinations because the contemporary events of sanitation, better nutrition and living conditions that happened after vaccines were forced on communities would work. Plumbers and trash collectors deserve accolades for improving our health more than a medical doctor and hospitals.

(Oddly, one cause discussed about polio was that polio was from too much sanitation which was blamed on postwar housewives at the time; conversely, another cause of polio was that flies carried it and gave it to young children in the summertime - which of course necessitated the spraying of DDT!)

The problem being that any new technology or knowledge needs to be tested. This requires funding. Funding comes from the PTB who control almost everything, so any $ will go to studies that maintain the status quo. God forbid that an Andrew Wakefield will come along with nine other doctors and put together and publish in Lancet a low level study that advocates for more study and recommends separating, not eliminating, a current multivalent live but attenuated viral vaccine as the MMR.
 

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I'm following up with Dr Mendelsohn info.

I sounds like it's pretty common for people like Dr Thomas to lose their licenses or at the very least be punished for having a different opinion.

I always find it curious when people with different opinions are not allowed to speak or get punished for speaking. I believe that if an argument has merit it should not have to be forced on someone.
when money, profits, and the bottom dollar matter more than lives, speaking out is VERY taboo.
 

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This is purely anecdotal, but is my true lived experience.

I’ve only ever had one vaccine. I believe it was the DTP (this, from my research, was the first on the schedule for babies my age, and I know it was my first vaccine). That vaccine put me in a coma for several hours (up to 24 - my parents aren’t solid on the details).

Growing up, I had a lot of gut and skin issues. Eczema, hives, painful tummy aches which would last for hours. I was highly intolerant to dairy and eggs, and sensitive for awhile to many other foods, as well. I also am autistic. I’ve long been prone to OCD, an eating disorder, anxiety, major depression, and PTSD.

As a baby, I was extremely anxious. I’ve always been sensitive to shock and will get chills even in the summer when highly stressed or anxious. I remember as a child having to be wrapped in several hats, jumpers, scarves, blankets, and a hot water bottle and still shivering like mad.

On the other hand, I’ve only had the flu a couple of times. Even in close quarter environments, like dorms, I didn’t get it. I did have the chicken pox (back when it was normal and encouraged to get in childhood) very mildly. I had less than a half dozen spots and didn’t feel unwell at all. The only times I’ve had common viruses as an adult were from close contact direct exposure (looking after a sick baby). Even then, they were rarely severe (only once when I caught bronchitis, which was cured with homeopathy) and passed within a few days. I have never experienced long term complications from any virus. I have never been hospitalised from a virus.

So far, my track record has shown that for me, a vaccine put me in hospital, but a virus never has. Therefore, I’m more wary of vaccines than viruses. This may not be the case for everyone, which is why I think everyone should do their own research or at the very least speak to a doctor who is knowledgeable on the subject.

It greatly bothers me that there have never been any randomised double blind control trials on vaccines, and that we have no long term research on vaccinated vs. unvaccinated people. Such a study would certainly give me more faith in vaccines if they showed a favourable result for vaccinated people. It would make me much more likely to have my children vaccinated. Without that research, those of us who question are left sifting through anecdotal reports and possibly questionable research. And with most doctors blindly in favour of vaccines, it’s difficult to rely on qualified professionals for guidance in this area.

All of this dismissal and burying of those who deny or question the efficacy or safety of vaccines leaves me more suspicious of them and wanting to run away from them altogether. I distrust a system which denies people informed consent and is clearly biased without even taking the time to weigh the evidence properly.
 

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What do you mean by this? There has never been any actual research done on vaccines in the manner accepted by the medical community?
I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, no. The gold standard of medical research has never been conducted on vaccines. Researchers claim a breech of ethics, saying that because vaccines save lives, it would be unethical to deny children this medicine in order to do the research.

If anyone knows of a study showing I’m mistaken, please share. I’m happy to be proven wrong.
 

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I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, no. The gold standard of medical research has never been conducted on vaccines. Researchers claim a breech of ethics, saying that because vaccines save lives, it would be unethical to deny children this medicine in order to do the research.

If anyone knows of a study showing I’m mistaken, please share. I’m happy to be proven wrong.
So, the only study that I'm aware of was done in Guinea-Bissau, where they looked at overall health and mortality of children who received/didn't receive certain vaccines. The findings were really interesting, and pleased no one, so they didn't get a lot of press. What press they did get was cherry-picked depending on whether you wanted to emphasis the positive or negative effects of vaccines. You can listen to one of the doctors give an excellent TEDx talk here: https://www.ted.com/talks/christine_stabell_benn_how_vaccines_train_the_immune_system_in_ways_no_one_expected/transcript?language=en

Lavender, she talks about the DTP vaccine around 9:00, but I highly recommend listening to the whole thing.
 

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This is very interesting. I can see what she means about live vaccines having a protective effect. A relative of mine always tested positive for TB - even decades after the vaccine was administered. They never had TB, but did have the vaccine. I know that the DTP vaccine was particularly bad. I’ve met others who had similar reactions to mine.

It seems like common sense to me that a vaccine that offers lifelong immunity after one dose is superior to a vaccine whose immunity wanes every few years. Then again, I have worried about live vaccines actually causing disease in some people. I’ve heard of people contracting measles and polio from live vaccines and passing it on to others.
 

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About live virus vaccines, yellow fever is a live virus vaccine - do you recall this story from 2011 - My friend, Malcolm, the broadcaster, out of darkness, remembering hell


The drug company that made the vaccine took no responsibility for his reaction and stated furthermore that the vaccine is essential for travel and commerce in our world. IOW, the ends justify the means.

The Sabin live oral polio virus vaccine is no longer used in the US because it was linked to each case of domestic polio in the US after 1979; it was finally removed from the US in 1999.

About the BCG vaccine - it is not used in the US, but we have fair control of tuberculosis as a disease through screening, as much as any other nation in the world. Yet people who come to the US and need to get tested for work for tuberculosis will test positive for tuberculosis if they have the Mantoux Skin test and have had that vaccine. Immigrants are not warned about this complication. This necessitates further screening with a chest X-ray, blood test, or sputum test.
 

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ANY kind of negative light about children's vaccines or any vaccines in general, would NEVER get any press like that video said - negative outcomes are not reported in the media, as it would disrupt the 'agenda' ....even when it comes to research - negative research is suppressed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, no. The gold standard of medical research has never been conducted on vaccines. Researchers claim a breech of ethics, saying that because vaccines save lives, it would be unethical to deny children this medicine in order to do the research.

If anyone knows of a study showing I’m mistaken, please share. I’m happy to be proven wrong.
I'm having a hard time with this. I know I recently read that the medical community does not like to do research with non-vaccinated people because they feel they are depriving them of a needed vaccine. But I have to ask, how do you prove what you are testing is safe and effective if there is no control group? Even I know that you have to have a group of people in the experiment not receiving anything to compare to the group receiving whatever you are researching.

What does the group not getting the researched product receive if it is not nothing? Does that make sense?
 

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Then again, I have worried about live vaccines actually causing disease in some people. I’ve heard of people contracting measles and polio from live vaccines and passing it on to others.
With the live/oral polio vaccine the idea is that it does get passed on to others. Since polio is spread via the oral-fecal route, the vaccine virus can actually infect and immunize those in close contact with the vaccinated, or sharing a contaminated water supply. However, sometimes the vaccine viruses "revert to virulence" and start causing symptomatic polio. There are now actually more polio cases caused by vaccine viruses than wild polio viruses. This is why the WHO hopes to switch from live to inactivated polio vaccines for developing nations. The US, EU and other developed nations switched to IPV years ago.

I can personally attest that it is possible to get measles from the vaccine. I received an MMR booster in the 1980s (it was recommended for kids who had had the single shots as babies) and came down with a nasty case of vaccine induced measles about 10 days after (right on time according the vaccine package insert on possible adverse events, which also stated, at the time, that the prevalence was higher in teenage girls). We had gone down to NYC, and my mom was clueless. She thought I'd maybe had an allergic reaction to the cold medicine she gave me to combat the initial symptoms. (I woke up with the rash after taking the cold medicine to help me sleep - never had reacted to the medicine before, but to her it seemed logical). So, I rode the subway all over NYC with the measles (It was awful going down the escalators with that hot, dry air blowing up. I still remember how it made the rash on my face burn.), saw CATS with the measles, went to the top of the Empire State Building with the measles, and rode Amtrak back upstate with the measles. Who knows how many people were exposed. It was the '80s though, and there were still 1,000s of measles cases every year in the US. When we got home and got the diagnosis, the doctor said not to worry, the vaccine virus is not contagious. Different time....

As to doing all that with the measles... When you watch the Brady Bunch measles episode, and they all stay home and say how great it is to stay home and not be really sick - "If you're going to get sick, get the measles!" It was like that. The flu-like symptoms lasted about a day, the rash was super uncomfortable and burny (and lasted for at least a week), and I would have been much happier and more comfortable at home, but obviously I wasn't so sick that I couldn't troop all over NYC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
So, the only study that I'm aware of was done in Guinea-Bissau, where they looked at overall health and mortality of children who received/didn't receive certain vaccines. The findings were really interesting, and pleased no one, so they didn't get a lot of press. What press they did get was cherry-picked depending on whether you wanted to emphasis the positive or negative effects of vaccines. You can listen to one of the doctors give an excellent TEDx talk here: https://www.ted.com/talks/christine_stabell_benn_how_vaccines_train_the_immune_system_in_ways_no_one_expected/transcript?language=en

Lavender, she talks about the DTP vaccine around 9:00, but I highly recommend listening to the whole thing.
What a great video. I never knew what a difference there was between live and non-live vaccines. According to the speaker, live vaccine recipients in the US had 1/2 the chance of being hospitalized that non-live vaccine people had. I'd like to see that comparison to non-vaccine. That's my biggest question. If your comparing getting hit by a hammer or hit by a tennis racket, it should also include not getting hit at all.

It is frightening that her research found the non-live DPT vaccine caused 5x the death rate. That is a huge increase.

The live vaccines stimulate the immune system long term. The researcher sees that as a positive. I can agree with that to a certain point as long as it does not overstimulate. She said she found impacts on overall health. Looked at non-specific effects. She states live polio vaccine decreased mortality at birth by 1/3rd compared to the children who did not get the live polio vaccine. However, what I am noticing is she does not mention if other vaccines were given. It's great if that is all that was administered, and you have a true control group. I would like to know if that is the case, and she does not mention that. Because she says the non-live vaccines cause the overall death rates to increase, I wonder if the babies received any of those.

The more I look into this, the more I see there are things left out here and there. Little things that are not so little. She does seem very sincere, but is she one of those researchers who believes it is horrible to leave a child completely non-vaccinated?
 

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Good discussion, so I'm going to bump it up.
 
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I have not received an answer for this question of long term health outcomes of vaccinated vs fully unvaccinated people. I know there are a lot of unvaccinated people. I've discovered that the last few weeks. I keep reading that vaccines can cause autoimmune problems and perhaps cancer, and now the Covid jab causes heart problems and strokes.

I would think the entire premise of vaccination is to create healthier lives by eliminating diseases. Now I'm thinking there is much more to all this. For example, I came across an MD who said chicken pox and measles should NOT be considered childhood diseases. He said those conditions were a part of a child's immune system development. He said they were IMPORTANT to get. I remember chicken pox parties. Heck, I remember getting chicken pox. You missed a week of school, had some red dots on your body that itched a little and that was it.

I saw a chart somewhere that showed the diseases that use to cause devastation were reduced tremendously in the 1st half of the 1900's. The reason the author gave for that decrease was major improvements in sanitation and indoor plumbing. This was all BEFORE vaccination was on any kind of a large scale.

I read on this forum during the height of the polio epidemic that roughly 3000 people died. Not to discount those deaths, but that is a very small number. There were 158,000,000 in the US in 1950. That's like one in 53,000. I lived in a town of 32,000 people for several years. That would mean not one person would die from polio in that town in an entire year during a horrible epidemic. A lot would have died from heart disease, stroke and cancer.
 

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I bought a big pile of books on sale from Chelsea Green. One is: Vaccines, Autoimmunity, and the Changing Nature of Childhood Illness by Thomas Cowan, MD

I've just started reading it, and I'm impressed. A big picture book.
 
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I have not received an answer for this question of long term health outcomes of vaccinated vs fully unvaccinated people. I know there are a lot of unvaccinated people. I've discovered that the last few weeks.
Thirty-forty years ago, I recall listening to talk radio to Dr Dean Edell, MD, an ophthamologist out of the Bay Area. He was syndicated nationwide. He got this question frequently. His stock answer was the same that I have heard from doctors today - that withholding any "lifesaving vaccine" from any child is dangerous and unethical. Dr Dean Edell was interesting in that he claimed his family had a health food store back in the 40s, 50s and he laid claim on himself to be sympathetic to all you health minded persons.

Let us be honest. There has always been a "control group" available for medical and vaccine manufacturers to use. I know that there have been the Amish people who avoided technology, modern medicine and vaccines, Christian Scientists and other religious types who avoid doctors, families of Chiropractors who avoid modern medicine, and many other groups who actively avoid modern medicine in general and vaccines in particular.

And let me be further honest and state that members of true control groups may not be allowed to know which group they are in - the vaccinated or not vaccinate - so many parents would not allow their children to participate as either vaccinated or not vaccinated.

There, however, have been studies done over the years comparing vaccinated/not vaccinated children and each time the not vaccinated children are shown to be healthier/free of disease in many catagories.

Semantics enters the foray when one defines a not vaccinated person. Who are these people? Someone missing one vaccine, some vaccines, all vaccines? The goal posts move all of the time.

Doctors and the people who carry out the rules as school administrators have been lying all of the time about the law, the side effects, and any studies that have been done regarding vaccines, so it is up to YOU, the parents, to make up your own mind and remember that YOU live with the consequences of the decisions others place on you.
 

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Doctors and the people who carry out the rules as school administrators have been lying all of the time about the law, the side effects, and any studies that have been done regarding vaccines, so it is up to YOU, the parents, to make up your own mind and remember that YOU live with the consequences of the decisions others place on you.
Schools are a great example of omitting available exemptions to parents

Drs are great at telling new parents horror stories of situations of babies dying without vaccines...situations that will never apply to them because what the dr is really referring to, but doesn't mention is, those babies are malnourished, in another country, and have no access to good food/clean water.

Media is great at helping control the fear surrounding the issue, as we are horrifically witnessing.
 

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Yes, when I registered my children in school, I brought with me a copy of the law and highlighted the pertinent parts and shoved it under their nose. The first time I did this, the office worker called out the principal who just looked at me and allowed me to register my child. Not a word out of the principal nor from the office worker. Sadly, this continued over the years in private, public, and religious schools.

I regret that. I wish I had just homeschooled my children from the beginning instead of fighting each battle I encountered while my children grew up. And there were plenty of battles.
 
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