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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have seen so many posts including the ones about my ds who have gotten caries early on. I have seen so many mom's including myself blame there selves after hearing from some one or a Dentist that night nursing caused this problem. I have to get this message out there that this just isnt the case. Bfing helps prevent cavities not cause them. Please read this link <a href="http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-health/articles/20/1/Breastfeeding-Does-Not-Cause-Cavities" target="_blank">http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-heal...Cause-Cavities</a><br><br>
Like my ds most early caries have to do with gentics and weak tooth enamal. The benifits of bfing on demand are to many to discount. Proper dental hygen is the key not taking away this important part of your childs nutrition. I just wish dentists would get it thru their heads that FF and bfing are so different they cant be compaired.<br><br>
I was told by 2 dentist that my sons problems were caused by baby bottle tooth decay even tho he has never had a bottle. That is when I did my own research and found just how far behind dentist are on this issue.<br><br>
I hope this posts helps some people out.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MCatLvrMoMof2</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7244280"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><a href="http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-heal...ities/print/20" target="_blank">http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-heal...ities/print/20</a><br></div>
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That link didn't work for me.<br><br><br>
Even the "good" dentists that we've been working with continue to ask me about bfing. Yesterday one of them said that while he didn't want to interfere with our bfing relationship, I might start thinking about weaning and encouraging things to go in that direction. Nice as pie, but Argh!! I wonder how many scared, guilt ridden moms make the decision to wean based on the advice of dentists?!?!?! I think that when we feel scared and overwhelmed we tend to hang onto "do this" type of advice because it's more manageable than doing a lot of research, and you can say: "Well, I did what the expert said to do." So, I think that for as long as dentists are blaming bfing, a lot of moms are going to blame it as well, and make sad decisions as a result.
 

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I don't understand how so many people get stuck in these conversations with their dentists.<br><br>
I guess, for us, there are just certain topics that aren't up for discussion, and nursing is one of them. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Cassandra M.</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7245432"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't understand how so many people get stuck in these conversations with their dentists.<br><br>
I guess, for us, there are just certain topics that aren't up for discussion, and nursing is one of them. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"></div>
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It's pretty easy. The dentist looks at the child's teeth, sits down and says: "Have you been putting the child to bed with a bottle?" No "Have you been nursing the child at night" Yes. "Well as long as you're nursing through the night your child's caries are going to grow and could spread to the other teeth. If you don't stop nursing at night then I can't do anything/the child will lose his teeth/they're just going to get worse."<br><br>
Or, it happens because a scared and worried mom asks: "what can I do?" Which is a totally appropriate question to ask a dentist. Unfortunately, I don't think many dentists give appropriate suggestions.<br><br>
If the dentists you've been seeing haven't mentioned nursing then they're obviously better informed then the ones that I've been seeing.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>maybeknott</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7245689"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It's pretty easy. The dentist looks at the child's teeth, sits down and says: "Have you been putting the child to bed with a bottle?" No "Have you been nursing the child at night" Yes. "Well as long as you're nursing through the night your child's caries are going to grow and could spread to the other teeth. If you don't stop nursing at night then I can't do anything/the child will lose his teeth/they're just going to get worse."<br><br>
Or, it happens because a scared and worried mom asks: "what can I do?" Which is a totally appropriate question to ask a dentist. Unfortunately, I don't think many dentists give appropriate suggestions.<br><br>
If the dentists you've been seeing haven't mentioned nursing then they're obviously better informed then the ones that I've been seeing.</div>
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I have dealt with too many dentists, most don't even touch the issue, but a few have. I guess I just know better than to get into it with them. It's very easy to lie and tell them what they want to hear. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"> I know it doesn't help the next nursing mom, but it keeps us on track with what we are there for, and breastfeeding has nothing to do with the equation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I fixed the link in the OP. sorry about that. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"> I should know by now to always click on the link to make sure it works. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/duh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="duh"> If you want a printable version then go with this link provided on the right hand side. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MCatLvrMoMof2</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7246111"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I fixed the link in the OP. sorry about that. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"> I should know by now to always click on the link to make sure it works. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/duh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="duh"> If you want a printable version then go with this link provided on the right hand side. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"></div>
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Excellent article! I have to laugh though....the Dr. Hale from Brighton, MI is literally 10 minutes away from me. I avoided his office, though, because it is well known in our mothering community here that he refuses to allow parents with the child during treatment. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I avoided his office, though, because it is well known in our mothering community here that he refuses to allow parents with the child during treatment. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:</td>
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That is a total deal breaker for me I wouldnt allow my dc to go in to a Dr. office alone so why would I do so at the Dentist. I was told by one dentist office when I called to check the policy that the reason for this was that most kids do better when a parent isnt in the room. I told her I could care less if my dc would do better without me there I would never leave them alone with a stranger. That is just asking for trouble IMHO.<br><br>
I took my dd to the local dentist at the health dept. for the one visit (first visit parents can go back) because of that policy. I just wanted to see what all would need to be done. I had no intention of taking her back after that because of that stupid policy.<br><br>
The hygenist threatened my dd that if she didnt stop crying I would have to go back to the waiting room and not be allowed in with her. Needless to say that didnt work at all and I wasnt about to leave and told dd so. I can only imagine what they would have said/done to her had I not been in there. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MCatLvrMoMof2</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7246329"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That is a total deal breaker for me I wouldnt allow my dc to go in to a Dr. office alone so why would I do so at the Dentist. I was told by one dentist office when I called to check the policy that the reason for this was that most kids do better when a parent isnt in the room. I told her I could care less if my dc would do better without me there I would never leave them alone with a stranger. That is just asking for trouble IMHO.<br><br>
I took my dd to the local dentist at the health dept. for the one visit (first visit parents can go back) because of that policy. I just wanted to see what all would need to be done. I had no intention of taking her back after that because of that stupid policy.<br><br>
The hygenist threatened my dd that if she didnt stop crying I would have to go back to the waiting room and not be allowed in with her. Needless to say that didnt work at all and I wasnt about to leave and told dd so. I can only imagine what they would have said/done to her had I not been in there. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:</div>
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Exactly. I am highly suspicious of dentists that don't want parents back with the child while the work is being done. What are they trying to hide? If they were competent, capable, respectful dentists there would be absolutely <b>NO</b> reason to make such a demand!
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">If they were competent, capable, respectful dentists there would be absolutely NO reason to make such a demand!</td>
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Cassandra, that is a really inflammatory, generalized statement you made there.<br><br>
In my office, the *child* gets to make the decision. Some do want their parents back with them, and that's fine.<br><br>
Others DO NOT, and that's okay, too. Some children like to feel like "big girls/boys", or they want to do this "by myself".<br><br>
Other children do much better without their parents in the room. I have had mothers say to their children, "Don't worry, I'm right here, I'll protect you!" Protect her from WHAT? What a way to start a relationship. And that's exactly what it is, a relationship between ME and the CHILD (the patient, after all). Some parents continually intrude on that and it's impossible to relate to the child at all without the parent answering every question for them.<br><br>
Some children also really "play up" to a parent present. "Oh, look what I'm going through! :dq: I really need a trip to Toys R Us for all this!" and yet they're very matter-of-fact when their audience isn't there.<br><br>
If you don't trust your dentist, then that's YOUR issue. Why would you bring your child to a healthcare provider of any kind whom you don't trust? You should have a good relationship with this person, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I can see where you are coming from Smilemomma but it is MY responsibility to protect my child and if I am not in the room I cannot do that. I have seen to many times children who were abused by someone who was in a position of trust. It is every parents responsibility to protect there child from that. After 1-2 visits to a dentist you cannot know if they are trust worthy enough to be alone with your child.<br><br>
I believe that a competent dentist would be fine with a parent being present and not have a policy saying NO. Like I said in my pp even if my kid would do better without me there it doesn't matter I have to be responsible to protect them. And I cannot do that if I am in a waiting room on the other side of the building.<br><br>
I would be willing to stand outside in the hallway but for me to leave is wrong. There is nothing wrong with a parent telling a child they will protect them that is what we are supposed to do after all.<br><br>
I am sure there are dentists that would never dream of hurting a child but how do you know after just 1 visit if the dentist you are seeing is one of them?? It isn't possible. I am not physic, I dont know for a fact my dc would be safe and I would much rather be overprotective than be one of those parents you see who's child was harmed.<br><br>
We are not talking about the child making the decision we are talking about a office policy with no exceptions on parents in the room with the child. Even if my dc wanted to be left alone to be a "big" kid I wouldn't leave at least not totally I would have to be were I could hear and see what was going on.<br><br>
Just like taking them to the Dr. I will not allow them out of my sight something might not happen but what if it would have?? It would have been my fault for not being there.<br><br>
As you can see this is something I feel very strongly about. And I will not give my business to any Dentist who has the policy of NO parents no exceptions.
 

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You both are talking about situations that are different somewhat. Some offices do have the policy that NO parents go back, there isn't an option for the kids or the parents.<br><br>
My daughter's dentist formed a good relationship with me and my daughter, which makes sense to me. Altho my daughter is the patient, she is a minor and I am the responsible party for her. The dentist explained to me quickly about why some dentists prefer parents to stay in the waiting room, and so thru her advice I still go back with my daughter, but I am also more aware of my actions while back there.<br><br>
To me, that is a better working relationship, not just to eliminate the parent, but to work with the parent because the kids are well... kids. I am careful not to make any faces or expressions while the work is being done(so that my daughter doesn't get upset by my reactions), I read a magazine and respond when asked and my daughter does excellent. It really relieves my daughter's anxiety about being there because goodness, I am there for her for everything I can be.<br><br>
The dentist talks to my daughter thorughout her visit and I feel they have a great relationship.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Smilemomma</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7254200"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Cassandra, that is a really inflammatory, generalized statement you made there.</div>
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No, I respectfully disagree, Smilemomma. If a dentist insists that it is standard protocol for children (as young as barely a year old) go back for procedures alone, I find that highly suspect and I would NOT allow that dentist to care for my child. Period.<br><br><br>
Dentists can always give the parents a chance and set up ground rules...it's not good practice to insist all parents can't be there with their children, it isn't the 1950's anymore.<br><br>
I haven't personally had this problem since I ask right away if the dentist allows parents to be with thier children at all times, and cross them off the list if they don't. I've unfortunately been there while a dentist refused to listen to my daughters stop sign, and I will be there to advocate for as long as my children need me. I do agree that as parents we need to remain calm, collected and positive, as our children are often looking at us for response cues.<br><br>
I am surprised you seem so offended, this to me seems like a very basic right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
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Sorry, but night nursing CAN contribute to cavities. If the child is eating solid food as well. The breastmilk combines with other sugars in the mouth and feeds the bacteria that cause decay.<br><br>
You don't have to feel bad about night nursing. It's not your fault your baby has decay. Both of mine have had decay before the age of 2. I am guessing that if I'd stopped nursing at night around 9 months or so, that their decay would be less than it is now. But I can't say for sure.<br><br>
However, that doesn't stop me from night nursing. I am just going to be more diligent about teeth cleaning. Our dentist didn't suggest that I stop nursing at night, but I agreed with him that it could very well be a factor. But that's life. Nothing is risk free.
 

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My son has many caries and needs crowns. At first she said it was genetic, then when she learned we still nurse, she blamed that. He is going in for hsi work finally. They want him to go back alone. I don't THINK so.
 

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No, it doesn't. The breastmilk is deposited at the back of the mouth near the throat and is usually swallowed immediately. It barely touches the teeth at all. Look at the anatomy of breastfeeding, and it's obvious. Mothers throughout time have had to nurse their babies at night. Babies were meant to be breastfed--at night, too. Why would nature work against itself? As you can see by the article caries in early childhood are caused by ECC, kids that have a high concentration of a certain bacteria. Nothing to do with breastmilk whatsoever. And BFing makes them less susceptible to this. Maybe a mother who has a high sugar diet, that could contribute, but there are countries were babies nurse ALL night...and ECC is less common there.
 

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Our DD night nursed until she self-weaned around 4yo. She is 6.5yo and still has never had a cavitity/dental caries. I recall one of her 1st dental appts (a female dentist who was supposed to be crunchy) when DD was almost 2yo. I just wanted good, natural information, but got an earful from the dentist who said that every baby who night nurses will most certainly have cavities by the time they turn 2. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:<br><br>
As I was leaving their office, I noticed a little bowl of chocolates sitting at the reception counter for patients. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry">
 

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Moonfirefaery, it very well may be genetics, I think your dentist would just rather blame bfing. As you and others have said, if night nursing caused tooth decay, whether in combination with other foods or not, babies throughout history would have had rotten teeth. Obviously false. Congenital enamel weakness, whether genetic or because of a combination of genetics and nutritional or other environmental risk factors, can be a huge factor in early decay. Both of my children have had this problem, as I did myself on my baby teeth. We've all had very good diets, with no in-utero risk factors for tooth damage. There are spots on the teeth that you can see immediately after erupting where the enamel is chalky and wears away quickly, with no actual decay (as in, bacterial acid caused) until well after the enamel is gone. My dentist examed my first son's teeth when I noticed this, and said it's obvious the enamel is just missing there, not properly mineralized in the first place, there was no decay yet, just missing enamel. Decay settled in those areas later. My second son's teeth have the same problem (he's only 16 mos. now). We go to a pediatric dentist now for the kids (who <i>does</i> allow parents in the exam area), since my dentist doesn't work on them that young, but I don't discuss the nursing issue with them. I'm not there for parenting advice, and I know bfing has not caused my kids' problems. In fact, when asked, I told them my 2nd no longer nurses at night, because I could tell where the conversation was going ("nursing is great, <i>but</i>..." yeah, whatever, I know the truth).<br><br>
Hygiene is still important in a case like this to reduce the progress of decay, but it's not <i>preventable</i> through hygiene, it won't make the enamel grow back (this is beyond what remineralization can fix, like that talked about in the Healing Cavities With Nutrition thread here). It's very frustrating, because I know a lot about nutrition, nutrient-density, risk factors, etc., I practice what I know, and it has not been enough for my children to avoid this. Talk about mommy guilt.
 

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I think it's genetics cuz I've always been prone to cavities too. I think it's what that article was about pretty much that's affecting him, plus maybe his enamel didn't form strongly when he was in the womb. I don't believe BFing, day or night, contributes anymore than eating or dirnking anything else. We could say food in general contributes to caries, but we HAVE to eat just like babies HAVE to nurse...even at night.
 
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