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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To start - a bit long, I would love some ideas. The status quo isn't working - so 'just hang in' won't cut it. I need some concrete ways to increase my sleep and help my baby be happier. I don't really like breastfeeding (darn near hate it at this point) because it is uncomfortable a lot of the time (sensitive skin).<br><br>
I have not spent much time on this forum - but I am hitting the sleep exhaustion point. I have a 9 month old, co-sleeping, bfdin'g little boy who has decided that waking every 90 minutes is a cool thing. The only thing that soothes him is nursing. He isn't awake for too long - but does nurse. Poor dh is unable to do much for him - during the day or night, he is a momma's boy. He doesn't take a soother or suck his thumb (darn). I do have a co-sleeper (arm's length) but we should stop using it due to his mobility now. He did sleep throught the night for several weeks when he was 5 months old and he will sometimes do 4 hour stretches. I don't expect to have a kiddo that sleeps through now - but 4 hours would be heavenly. This 90 minute thing is tough.<br><br>
I also have three other kiddos - 5, 4 and 2 so a busy household, a husband that works long hours (I do have kiddos at daycare for a few hours each week so do have a break from some of the kiddos at times to get a bit of me time, or a lot of housework).<br><br>
So ...<br><br>
1) Nightime weaning - what the heck do you do? Since he only comforts nursing, I think we would have a scream fest if I didn't nurse. Do I offer water in bottles? Do I just walk the house with a screaming child? (Shoudl this go to the breastfeeding thread?)<br><br>
2) I have read NCSS (or at least most of it) and have been trying to dis-associate sleeping with nursing. I rarely nursing while lying down now - I nurse him until sleepy, then detach ... then try again. I have been doing that for 2-4 weeks, not really helping. Also, very curious on the sleep begets sleep - see napping.<br><br>
3) Our napping is decent, but only once a day - he will normally nap once a day from noon/1pm until 2pm/2:30pm. But otherwise, he is up. Is my child under-slept? He currently sleeps on our bed - but that is now a safety hazard so a crib is necessary.<br><br>
4) He is a WREAK in the evenings - from 5:30pm onwards, he is a miserable little baby. I do try and nurse him - sometimes he will fall asleep, however within 10 minutes of putting in 2 year old's crib, he is awake, screaming - I go get him. With 3 other kiddos to put to bed, spend some quality time - we are doing well.<br><br>
5) I would love to have dinner without a babe attached to my boob - he is sometimes too grumpy (i.e. tired, maybe) to eat much. Some days he is great at dinner - but it is unusual.<br><br>
6) Whole baby lead feeding - is it possible he isn't getting enough solids (I know an whole other argument - might move that one to the baby thread).<br><br>
7) Different rooms - I really don't get the downside to being in a different room. I feel I need a bit of distance - I will hear him with a monitor, so don't get that argument ... "parents just don't hear their crying babies". Is there a problem with not hearing their content, happy, but awake baby? Do you have to go see an awake, but happy baby?<br><br>
********************<br>
I am desperate. The 2 year old will move to a big boy bed this week (finally got it out of the snowed-in garage) so babe will have a crib. I am somewhat inclined to leave it in that bedroom (might move the 2 year old to be with olde siblings) as our room is small for a crib. My husband helps with the older kiddos in the night (which is rare - great sleepers) but helps very little with the babe due to the boob factor.<br><br>
Alright - going out for breakie, too tired to make it so why not take 4 kiddos to breakie on my own. I need the syrup and the caffeine.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AnnD</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10802031"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">1) Nightime weaning - what the heck do you do? Since he only comforts nursing, I think we would have a scream fest if I didn't nurse. Do I offer water in bottles? Do I just walk the house with a screaming child? (Shoudl this go to the breastfeeding thread?)</div>
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I think yes you'd just have to deal with a crying child. But I read recently that partial nightweaning might not work (b/c a 9 month old won't get that he can nurse once but not 10 times) and I'm not sure a 9 month old should be expected to go 12 hours without nursing.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AnnD</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10802031"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">2) I have read NCSS (or at least most of it) and have been trying to dis-associate sleeping with nursing. I rarely nursing while lying down now - I nurse him until sleepy, then detach ... then try again. I have been doing that for 2-4 weeks, not really helping. Also, very curious on the sleep begets sleep - see napping.</div>
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Honestly this never worked for us. For a time I would put DS down AWAKE in his CRIB and he'd still wake every 1-2 hours wanting (um. screaming) to nurse.<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AnnD</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10802031"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">3) Our napping is decent, but only once a day - he will normally nap once a day from noon/1pm until 2pm/2:30pm. But otherwise, he is up. Is my child under-slept? He currently sleeps on our bed - but that is now a safety hazard so a crib is necessary.</div>
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Can you push for 2 naps? He sounds under-napped. At that age we followed that 2..3..4 pattern. First nap 2 hours after waking. Second nap 3 hours after waking from that. Bedtime 4 hours after waking from that second nap.<br><br>
re: crib. There was no crib here after 8 mos or so. He just totally rejected it. We put our mattress on the floor instead.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AnnD</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10802031"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">4) He is a WREAK in the evenings - from 5:30pm onwards, he is a miserable little baby. I do try and nurse him - sometimes he will fall asleep, however within 10 minutes of putting in 2 year old's crib, he is awake, screaming - I go get him. With 3 other kiddos to put to bed, spend some quality time - we are doing well.</div>
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He's too tired -try for those 2 earlier naps.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AnnD</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10802031"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">5) I would love to have dinner without a babe attached to my boob - he is sometimes too grumpy (i.e. tired, maybe) to eat much. Some days he is great at dinner - but it is unusual.</div>
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see napping.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AnnD</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10802031"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">6) Whole baby lead feeding - is it possible he isn't getting enough solids (I know an whole other argument - might move that one to the baby thread).</div>
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DS slept much better once he was eating a lot of solids. But that didn't come until 12 mos ish.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AnnD</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10802031"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">7) Different rooms - I really don't get the downside to being in a different room. I feel I need a bit of distance - I will hear him with a monitor, so don't get that argument ... "parents just don't hear their crying babies". Is there a problem with not hearing their content, happy, but awake baby? Do you have to go see an awake, but happy baby?</div>
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I have no problem with separate sleeping but my son didn't sleep well that way. you could definitely try it with yours.<br><br>
DS' sleep got 10000 times better around the year mark when I could soothe him back to sleep without nursing. But his ability to be soothed this way (without hysterical tears) just came to be.<br><br>
I don't really think I helped at all sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
D_McG - Thanks for the input - not sure what advice I will get, but any ideas will help. I know he will sleep at some point, but I need him to sleep better now. By this time, with my other three - I was back at work - so it had to be solved. We have the luxury of a bit more time - how do working moms do it with these every 90 minute wakings. SAH is hard enough but I just plan to organize a few art activities for the three older kiddos, read advice on sleeping ...<br><br>
For the record, very important - I am aiming for four hour stretches (5 or 6 would be wonderful) - I am not aiming for a 12 hours, sleep through the night at this point. I don't mind getting up a few times each night - but don't want to get up 5 times in 6 hours.
 

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He's too young to nightwean.<br><br>
What does your pattern look like when he wakes?<br><br>
My focus at this point would be to minimize what's needed to get him back to sleep. Sleep with the boob exposed, encourage him to latch himself on, etc. You're aiming for HIM being the only one waking and you getting as close to sleeping through it as possible.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"><br><br>
-Angela
 

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9 months is a peak time for sleep disturbances due to developmental changes, growth spurts, etc. My daughter also woke up every 90 min or 2 hours during that time but it only lasted a few weeks, then she went back to sleep 4 hour stretches (she did not sleep through the night until she was 15 months old and weaned).<br><br>
I do think he could be overtired with only 1.5 hours nap a day... This is why he is so cranky in the afternoon.<br><br>
My suggestion, would be to put him to take a nap (stay in bed with him for 20-30 min. nursing) in the morning, 2-3 hours after he wakes up and do it for 1 week, he may get drowsy and fall sleep. Then put him for another nap after 2pm but not later than 4pm. Go to bed EARLIER and see how it goes.<br><br>
PM me if you have any questions. It did help with my daughter, she did not sleep through the night BUT she was less cranky and went back to 3-4 hour stretches.<br><br>
Gigi
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think I will try the nap thing - a little bit late today, but since he had such a horrible night, he must be tired (I certainly am).<br><br>
Nightime nursing ... what do you do if your boobs just can't take the every 90 minute feeding thing. I cannot let this kiddo latch on because I am too afraid of getting hurt (I have uber-sensitive skin - still help him latch, each and every time - and still have very low levels of pain ... unsupervised latching, and I will be in pain). I can't be a comfort nurser, not physically capable. What is next? Formula in a bottle, a few weeks to let this phase pass (have been doing that for a few months now).<br><br>
Off to put him to bed - hope the other 3 don't tear apart the house!<br><br>
Thanks everyone - really appreciated, any more more than welcome!
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> Ann,<br>
I think he's too tired to sleep, as well. More naps, or more opportunities for naps (boring quiet time)... Have you tried wearing him in a sling? DD would take little naps on my back in the sling when she was smaller, but fought sleep if she was mobile (but dd was walking at that age, so...). I also agree that developmental leaps can cause wakefulness- not to mention the fact that he's simply trying to figure everything out right now, and sometimes, all at once <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
I cannot find the research (and boy, I wish I could, I feel like a heel giving advice without anything to back me up on here)---<br>
Mineral defieciencies in you, mom, can cause excessive nipple sensitivities and make you have an aversion to nursing. Which can in turn make your let-down slower, which can make a sleepy baby mad and appear to be comfort nursing all night-- when in fact, he/she isn't getting any milk, even though he/she is waking all the time and nursing all the time.<br><br>
It's been my experience with sleep that just when I think I can't take it anymore (literally, black circles under my eyes and a constant hum in the background of sleep deprivation, flickery hallucinations at the corner of my eyes)... dd suprises me and sleeps a huge chunk of time, and it all gets better... overnight.<br><br>
But, I agree he's too young to nightwean- and I *personally* couldn't give formula without a life-or-death situation, so I would never suggest it.<br>
I would try to get him to sleep more often during the day. And I would definately suggest a mineral suppliment for you or at the very least, use sea salt on your food. Are you getting enough fats in your diet? I like fish-oil pills as well, just for good measure (but I'm notoriously undernourished).
 

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If I were you I would encourage more napping because overtiredness can lead to more wakings. I would start offering other means of a comfort first, before offering nursing at nighttime, just to start to introduce the idea to him. I would use nighttime weaning as a very last resort.<br><br>
In my opinion (and experience), a calm, present, accepting parent is BETTER than an angry, upset or resentful parent, even if the child prefers the other parent.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Is there a problem with not hearing their content, happy, but awake baby? Do you have to go see an awake, but happy baby?</td>
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IMO, this is not a problem. Though it won't necessarily happen in your situation. We have a video monitor and though I see DD wake, I don't interfere unless she's crying. She puts herself back to sleep occasionally. I figure there's no harm in giving her an opportunity to put herself to sleep as long as I respond to her cues that she's not ready for it. She's almost 18 months old, although I think it would apply to a 9 month old too if they awoke and didn't cry.<br><br>
Also you can try cluster feeding right before bed....this seemed to help my DD stay asleep longer.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>AnnD</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10803490"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Nightime nursing ... what do you do if your boobs just can't take the every 90 minute feeding thing. I cannot let this kiddo latch on because I am too afraid of getting hurt (I have uber-sensitive skin - still help him latch, each and every time - and still have very low levels of pain ... unsupervised latching, and I will be in pain). I can't be a comfort nurser, not physically capable. What is next? Formula in a bottle, a few weeks to let this phase pass (have been doing that for a few months now).</div>
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Unfortunately only you can decide how much pain you are capable of withstanding. And I believe it's best decide your own limits rather than doing things because you "should" or feel obligated. If you are physically not capable of nursing, then yes, formula is the next best option, unless you are able to get breastmilk from a bank or friend.
 

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Yes, I agree, if you can't take it anymore, you have to look for something else. Sometimes you have all these ideas on how things "should" be but there is a point where you just have to let go and focus on making things work. My daughter never took the bottle but you can try expressed milk before formula. It will be hard, though if you are co-sleeping. But if your baby still wakes up every 90 minutes, moving him to another room will be even more challenging.<br><br>
I wanted to let my daughter self-wean but at 15 months she still nursed every 2 hours (day and night) every time there was a change in her environment or she was sick, going through a developmental milestone, etc. It was really hard on me and I got sick all the time so I decided to wean her slowly. It worked out great, much better than expected and she did start sleeping through the night.<br><br>
Whatever the change, just make sure you do it slowly and you talk to your baby, they understand much more than what we think!<br><br>
Gigi
 

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I agree your LO needs 2 naps at this age. I remember my DD at that age FOUGHT every single nap so I figured I would fight for one nap a day. She was miserable in the afternoon. So I decided to try the 2 nap routine. About 2+ hrs after she got up, I would wear her in the wrap or sling.....and within MINUTES she was sleeping. It was better than trying to walk a crying baby around for an hour to get her to sleep. I could either keep her there for the nap, or put her down at that point. Once we got the naps down pat, our evenings were so much more peaceful around that dinnertime hour.<br><br>
I think this is a place to start. I will say though...that cosleeping and nursing on demand thru the night is a big committment. My DD is almost 19 mos and still wants to comfort nurse all night every few hours. If you are truly uncomfortable and it is making you an unhappy momma, you should definitely think about making some small changes to help get you through.
 
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