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How frequently does nipple stimulation lead to "uncontrollable" contractions?<br><br>
I talked with my OB about not wanting augmentation. Pitocin appears to be the only viable option in his practice. With respect to nipple stimulation, he said that "over half" of the time it leads to uncontrollable contractions. (Whereas with pit., he can start out with a low dose and slowly increase...).<br><br>
I'm wondering whether his estimate of over half is accurate <i>from his perspective</i>. Assuming that the OB doesn't arrive until late in the process - in time to catch the baby, then women who have tried and been successful with nipple stimulation wouldn't necessarily say, "Hey, we kept this thing going with nipple stim. Isnt' it great that things worked out just fine?" BUT, women who DID have "uncontrollable contractions" in response to nipple stimulation would be more likely to require help/intervention from medical staff. e.g., "We tried nipple stimulation, and now I'm contracting so much that I need an epidural..."<br><br>
What do you all think?<br><br>
Any other suggestions for natural methods when labor stalls? (My OB seems to be concerned about me not progressing "1 cm per hour," but that may be another post...)
 

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i had had mild to moderate, pretty regular contractiosn with DS, for a couple of hours, when DD woke up and wanted to nurse. i can tell you that her nursing made an immediate, dramatic difference in the intensity and frequency of the contractions, and her brother was born shortly after.<br><br>
what does he mean by uncontrollable? that HE wouldn't be able to control them?<br><br>
but my understanding is that nipple stimulation has to be pretty intense to stimulate labour. with DD, when i was "overdue" and we looked for "natural" inductions, we kind off massaged my nipples. i later read that something like rolling very warm / hot towels over the nipples, or strong sucking, or maybe even pumping, would be on the level that would augmant contractions.<br><br>
ETA: after reading your post, about not progressing 1 cm /h, i thought you were in labour now. but your EDD is not until october, right? why is he talking pitocin at all? it is pretty drastic, i'd think. personally, i wouldn't agree with any inductions, but there are milder ones, such as cervical gel or something like that, and plenty of even gentler ones, before even considering pitocin!<br><br>
i'd be VERY concerned about going into labour with someone who expected me to progress 1 cm /h. this is unfounded, and frankly puts you into a fearful state of mind. the best thing is not to do any vaginal exams at all until well into labour. you don't need anyone's fingers inside of you.<br><br>
if it were me, i'd be changing OB's ASAP.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>rainymorning</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9035085"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">i'd be VERY concerned about going into labour with someone who expected me to progress 1 cm /h. this is unfounded, and frankly puts you into a fearful state of mind. the best thing is not to do any vaginal exams at all until well into labour. you don't need anyone's fingers inside of you.<br><br>
if it were me, i'd be changing OB's ASAP.</div>
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ITA! Why is he talking about pit now? If you're concerned about going "late" there are many ways to help labor along. I used primrose oil (oral) starting at 37 weeks to help ripen the cervix and started black cohosh a few days later. I could feel contractions with each dose and I went into full labor at the very end of my 38th week. My understanding is that these herbal treatments will not induce labor if the body is not ready, but you should still discuss the use of them with a medical practioner (a midwife might work best). As for nipple stimulation, I didn't try it because I had heard and read that you had to seriously stimulate them for <i>hours</i> at a time to make anything happen. I had no intention of sitting around for hours with a pump and while the idea appealed to my dh at first, he didn't want to help me out for that long. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>rainymorning</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9035085"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
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ETA: after reading your post, about not progressing 1 cm /h, i thought you were in labour now. but your EDD is not until october, right? why is he talking pitocin at all? it is pretty drastic, i'd think. personally, i wouldn't agree with any inductions, but there are milder ones, such as cervical gel or something like that, and plenty of even gentler ones, before even considering pitocin!<br><br>
i'd be VERY concerned about going into labour with someone who expected me to progress 1 cm /h. this is unfounded, and frankly puts you into a fearful state of mind. the best thing is not to do any vaginal exams at all until well into labour. you don't need anyone's fingers inside of you.<br><br>
if it were me, i'd be changing OB's ASAP.</div>
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We were discussing my "birth preferences" at my 34-week visit. (Hospital personnel around here get all twitchy and defensive when you call it a "birth plan." They prefer "wish list," but I refuse this terminology - neither the hospital staff nor my OB is God, or Santa Claus.)<br><br>
He's fine with no inductions; we're on the same page with that. The concern seems to be if I'm at the hospital and not progressing, e.g., if I'm dilated to 7 centimeters and "stuck" there for 7 hours. (This was the example he kept using.) He would want to start pitocin at that point. He seems very concerned that my uterus may get tired out...<br><br>
Wouldn't I still be able to try nipple stim at that point? Or something else?<br><br>
As far as vaginal exams, we compromised at "once every 3 hours, as long as I am making progress." I wanted two: once when I arrived (can't avoid that one) and once when I'm ready to push. He would rather have once an hour.<br><br>
Yeah, I'm a little concerned. But, (a) I have a doula, and (b) I hope to arrive at the hospital when I am at least 5 cm dilated.<br><br>
Any other suggestions?
 

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ah, a wish list. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked"><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"><br><br>
have you read "thinking womans guide to a better birth" by henci goer? i think in your situation it is a must.<br><br>
she'd say, and i totally agree, that with his mindset, hourly vaginals guarantee you a c-section, pretty much.<br><br>
for all i know, i was at 7 for 7 hours. i wonder if someone knows with more certainty, but i'd think this is not uncommon or damaging, especially in the first labour, if the baby is doing fine. if you don't check, you don't know, and if you don't know, you trust your body.<br><br>
with my first birth, which was hospital, my birth plan stated no vaginals, and they were okay with that. however, at one point i started asking for them, because i was feeling tired and wanted to hear good news. well, there were no good news <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> . finally THEY started stalling, and telling me, ah, okay, the dr stepped out, we can't do another exam now, etc. so i finally relaxed.<br><br>
there are plenty of things you can do to help your progress--changing positions, is probably the main thing.<br><br>
with the first labour, you really need to get into the mindset, that when you *think* you can't take it anymore and NEED to go to the hospital, it is too early. i read somewhere else on the site, that someone said that the time to go to the hospital is when you don't think anymore, when you are in the zone, and someone needs to lead you to the car.<br><br>
i went to the hospital when i couldn't take it anylonger, after about 5 hours of what i thought was hard labour, and i was 3 cm. i was very lucky that the hospital staff was respectful. and THEN the labour got hard. for another 8 hours. i was glad i was in the hospital, because we lived very far from it, and i would have been too worried to be alone with dh while i couldn't even stand or move, but your OB doesn't seem to have the same laid-back attitude as mine.<br><br>
GL! make sure you educate yourself really well and that your doula is assertive, and try not to go too early!
 

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Any other suggestions? I'll repeat one!<br><br>
I wholeheartedly agree...change OB's!!! Go to your local LLL meeting, and after the meeting is closed, ask about birth practitioners. Go ask your doula who the favorite back up OB is in your area for the midwives, who the favorite OB is to work with for the doulas. You'll probably hear the same one or two names over and over. You should NOT have to "compromise" with somebody who wants to "practice" NON evidence based medicine on your and your baby's bodies during labor. The best kind of conversation about "birth plans" (and yes, it's okay to plan for what you'd like in birth, there are ALWAYS contingency plans, but a birth plan is the ideal) is what you WANT. If you have a list of what you don't want (ie: constant vag exams, chemical augmentation for no good reason {and FTP is rarely a good reason, as we're none of us machines and Dr. Friedman, who came up with the 1.2 cm per hour rule actually recanted it later, saying it was NOT sound science and should NOT be followed}, constant EFM, being tethered to the bed or not being allowed to bathe or shower, etc), you're not birthing in the right place and/or with the right practitioner. You should be able to walk in, and have your baby, not worry about defending yourself while you're working out of your brain stem...THAT is what slows labors down!!<br><br>
I know that, statistically, it is more difficult to break up with your OB than it is your very first boyfriend. SIlly statistic, isn't it?<br><br>
I'd highly recommend that you seek somebody who will SUPPORT and SIGN your BIRTH PLAN.<br><br>
I know that this post sounds kind of strident...I have just seen soooo many women who go in with certain hopes and needs in their birth, but who have put themselves in a situation that totally doesn't support those needs, because of the place and practitioner they have chosen. Ultimately, they don't get the birth they wanted. And it is really sad to see. I hope you consider finding somebody more supportive of your birthing needs.<br><br>
And, by the way, nipple stim is simply not controllable for the doc. When you stop, so does the oxytocin. AND, pit can SO TOTALLY hyperstimulate the uterus, and does so with statistical commonality! He just wants to be the one holding the "keys", so to speak.<br><br>
Good luck.
 

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<i>The Thinking Woman's Guide</i> is very good at explaining interventions- the pros and cons. So it would be good to read that book if you feel you still need more info. If you have to birth in a hospital you'll want to be armed with info and trust your doula to advocate for you when you are unable to do so for yourself. I would highly recommend laboring as long as you possibly can at home to lower the chances of intervention. My midwife told me to come in when I was 1-3-1 (contractions that are one minute, three minutes apart, for one hour). She said that most woman are around 4-5cm when they reach this point. I used a hypnobirthing program (called <a href="http://www.hypbirth.com" target="_blank">HypBirth</a>) so I was completely relaxed and in the zone while laboring at home. When I finally reached 1-3-1 (and it was closer to 1-2-1 because it took my contractions a long time to lengthen and at that point they were closer), I went to the birth center and found out I was 8cm! I only had to make it through 2cm more at the birth center (granted the hardest ones, but still).<br><br>
Of course it is normal in our culture to feel apprehensive about labor and fear that it might stall or that the pain will be too much. Arm yourself with affirmations and good birth stories. Again, the hypnobirthing program worked great to boost my confidence and the book <i>Spiritual Midwifery</i> filled my head with stories of women that birthed naturally. I was surprised at how well these positive influences helped me during labor. It never once crossed my mind that I needed pain medication and I never feared what was happening in my body. These two things are often what stall labor. The more relaxed you are, the more you simply let your body do what it is meant to do, the quicker and easier your labor will be (barring rare complication). You can bring your own stash of herbal supplements, too. Black and blue cohosh are often used by midwives to bring on contractions and keep them strengthening. Perhaps some other mamas and midwives can comment on this.<br><br>
Good luck! Labor is awesome!
 

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i induced my labor with nipple stim. just kinda rolled the alternating nip between my fingers for 30secs, waiting 5mins between each boob.<br><br>
got me very steady contractions from the get go.... baby was born 14 hrs after i started nip stim.
 

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Looked up some links for you from studies on nipple stimulation. Most are on using nipple stim to do a contraction stress test, which is used to evaluate fetal well being, and a couple on induction/augmentation. In poking around, it looks like hyperstimulation is fairly rare with nipple stimulation. In experience, I haven't seen it happen - if contractions get to close, you just stop the nipple stim.<br><br><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=3641897&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...RVAbstractPlus</a><br>
(The nipple stimulation contraction stress test.)<br><br><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=6700857&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...RVAbstractPlus</a><br>
(Use of nipple stimulation to obtain contraction stress test.)<br><br><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=3749994&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...RVAbstractPlus</a><br>
(Contraction stress test by nipple stimulation: efficacy and safety.)<br><br><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=7856430&ordinalpos=8&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum</a><br>
(Evaluation of breast stimulation for induction of labor in women with a prior cesarean section and in grandmultiparas.)<br><br><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=2198350&ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum</a><br>
(Nipple stimulation for Labor Augmentation)
 

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drjen--<br><br>
Thanks for the links. And I have to say that my experience w/nipple stim as mom and mw is that when stim stops, contrax stop very soon--unless, as one pp pointed out, it has helped to kick labor into gear. In which case, no more nipple stim is needed anyway.<br><br>
That doc's words on 'uncontrollable contrax' are just ridiculous. Or maybe I should say instead that his words reflect HIS need to control things, and his discomfort with doing anything he can't control and/or does not yet understand, but do not reflect evidence. What he's saying is tantamount to a lie. I won't say he's a liar, or purposefully lying--he is more likely speaking from ignorance and that need to control, and scarcely realizes the error of his statement (maybe would not purposefully lie, ever). But it might as well be a lie, being such a gross misrepresentation of fact, AND because he is willing to say it with such certainty. I mean, it would be another story if he'd said 'my understanding is...' or 'once I saw...' But to name nipple stim in such certain terms is as good as an outright lie in my book, both because his facts are wrong and because he is making the statement as fact.<br><br>
Ah, power trips from med providers....
 

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Pitocin is a great way to get uncontrollable contractions. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"> Really, ITA with the others - personally, I wouldn't feel safe with that OB anywhere near me. It isn't too late to switch to a homebirth midwife - it's worth considering. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
My advice if labor stalls would be twofold:<br>
1. Make sure you choose a birth place where you feel safe, and only have people around that you can really trust.<br>
2. If labor stalls, take a break and be glad for the rest. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> It doesn't have to be an emergency, sometimes labor just has its own pattern.<br><br>
Good luck!<br><br>
hapersmion
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MsBlack</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9040909"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And I have to say that my experience w/nipple stim as mom and mw is that when stim stops, contrax stop very soon--unless, as one pp pointed out, it has helped to kick labor into gear. In which case, no more nipple stim is needed anyway.</div>
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That was my personal experience too. My MW "let me" try nipple stim to get my labor going but only while I was on the monitor. There was all this concern about stress to the baby and she made sure noone else was listening when she told me to try, like she'd get in trouble or something, weird. While I did it, I contracted and could see it on the monitor, as soon as I stopped so did the ctx. In my case I had ruptured membranes but didn't start contracting for 2 days and constant nipple stim did nothing (rookie mistake is why I was in the hospital for this).<br><br>
You need to have a HCP who is on the same page. The Thinking Woman's Guide, as pp recommended, is awesome for giving you the evidence you need to be confident to get the birth you want.
 

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In my experience with nipple stimulation, once you stop the stimulation the contractions stop soon after. Sounds like what he means is that he can't control the stimulation, and really, how often do you think he's ever let a woman use nipple stimulation to augment labor? Once? 3 times maybe? Probably never. So "over half" may only be 1 person, or none at all if he made up the statistic. It sounds to me like he's pulling numbers out of the air in hopes of making you go along with what he wants.<br><br>
Personally I wouldn't be comfortable with anyone who needed to put their hand in my vagina every 3 hours just to make sure my cervix is still there. And that whole "centimeter/hour" crap is just that, crap. He sounds like a control freak but he's an OB so it comes with the territory. He's not practicing evidence based medicine, which would make me very nervous.<br><br>
With my first pregnancy and birth I had an OB. He said he was supportive of natural birth. I ended up with a pitocin induction, an epidural, a large episiotomy and a postpartum infection from so many hands up my vagina. I wish someone had warned me that I was buying into a system that simply does not understand natural birth. I may not have changed my mind about using an OB but at least I would have had fair warning. It's never too late to change providers if you aren't comfortable with the one you are using. Remember, you are paying this person. He is your employee and you are the boss. His job is to truthfully inform you of <i>all</i> your choices and respect your choice. Is he doing his job?
 

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I have done various forms of nipple stimulation to kick start labor.. and while some were.. um... more exciting than others... I'm still very pregnant, and not in labor.<br><br>
One form I definitely would not try again is pumping. A few hours later, my nipples were very sore, and slightly cracked.<br><br>
Yowch.<br><br>
I'd stick to gentler forms of nipple stim. if you are going to test it out.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ASusan</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9035373"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
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As far as vaginal exams, we compromised at "once every 3 hours, as long as I am making progress." I wanted two: once when I arrived (can't avoid that one) and once when I'm ready to push. He would rather have once an hour.<br></div>
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I agree with many of the pp, please try to find another OB<br><br>
This was particularly alarming to me! It is <i><b>your vagina</b></i>. You should never have to compromise about something regarding <i><b>your body</b></i>, especially since cervical checks don't tell you anything except where you are at that very moment. Useless. Please, get away from this doctor as quickly as possible.
 
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