"No" and contrary behaviour... and general parental confusion

Snuggles--
Sooo-oo much of what you've described is just part of being 2, and she will outgrow all on her own. The "no" to everything--even positive things!--is a classic example. Ditto for the indecision (she probably is frustrated because *she doesn't know what she wants), and the withholding of kisses from dad. She will outgrow it--you just need to some strategies to survive the frustration of *right now*!

When my dd would do the kiss-thing, I would say "Oh, you don't want Daddy's kiss? I'll take it!!!" And then she would rush in to get between daddy and me so that I wouldn't get her kiss.

As for the indecision, you could try comforting her and helping her understand her frustration ("It is hard to decide what to eat sometimes."). Could she be over-hungry when this occurs? Maybe she needs a snack a bit earlier?

My dd did not have a really big "No" stage (which makes my dd odd, cause this one is classic). I think she was too busy tantruming at that age to just say "no" . So no ideas there. But, rest assured, these behaviors are normal, normal, normal (and frustrating, frustrating, frustrating). Hope that you get lots more ideas!

Thank-you Sunmama... I took your suggestion and stole Ciara's kiss from her Dad. She was most unimpressed!

I think I need to settle myself into things easily. I've probably become quite intense in the discipline arena all of a sudden which is hard for both Ciara and I to take. At times I get so frustrated because I am disappointed that raising my daughter doesn't come as naturally as expected. I read all the wonderful threads on this board and many of you seem to have wonderfully instinctive solutions to problems that excrutiate me.

So, deep breaths all round... thank-you again for the reassurance.

Take Care.

Snuggles,

Indeed, there was nothing in your post that we haven't dealt with either. Few of us escape the follies of the 2 year old (or in my case, 3 1/2 year old ). DH and I have just really made sure to remind ourselves that DS is working through power issues. That having his own, and experiementing with it is totally normal. As for all the contrary behavior, we just take it in stride and keep our senses of humor. We try to empower DS as much as possible, but of course not at the cost of our own integrity or his safety... not always easy!

I've found that my best way of coping with all of it, is to just be creative in the moment. Some days it's easier than others--like when I'm tired for instance. We've had a similar nighttime scene btw. DS snuggles up on my lap to nurse and in the old days, DH would say, "hug or kiss goonight." DS would give an answer, they say their goodnights and be done with it. Anymore, DS will tell DH before climbing up on my lap, "no hug and no kiss!" It's playful of course and DH plays along... "Well, how CAN I say goodnight to you?" DS will usually make up some silly nonsensical string of words for DH to repeat. Which DH dutifully does and they say their goodnights.

Sorry for the ramble, but I'm just trying to point out that so much of it right now, is just to be easy going, play along whenever you can and hang in there. The food choices can be tough. DS is also one to have a hard time with decisions. I usually offer him oatmeal or cold cereal for b-fast. He'll choose toast. And then oatmeal, etc. I'll usually stop, say playfully something like, "I'm going to make you b-fast one time today and I want you to enjoy your meal! So really think it over and let me know when you've made your final choice." Somehow giving him the TIME not to have to choose on the spot is really helpful. Yes, he's muddling choices around in his head, but for him this works and usualyl quite quickly. What I've learned about DS is that he HATES to be put on the spot. He gets that deer in headlights, totally spaced out look. When he knows he has time to decide, it helps somehow.

And please don't feel bad about mothering not coming as natural. Truly, I imagine there are more people like us (because I'm one too! ), than the reverse when it comes to discipline and growing up. I read books. Sometime too many! But it realls has helped me shape my philosophy. BUT, whenever it seems I've figured it all out, DS changes and I have to start over and find out what's going to work. I'm finally starting to understand that this is what it's all about: learning, growing WITH your kid as they learn and grow... it's not easy somedays!

The best to you!

Snuggles, I find myself struggling with many of the same things! I had one thought, though, about the food issue.

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Perhaps try offering a choice about a different aspect of the meal. Like, would you like your beans on the blue plate or the yellow plate? I.e. something that's not as much work for you to change if she chooses something you hadn't anticipated.

It really sounds like you are headed in the right direction! I do not get into the food battle with dd; it is one that reallllly pushes my buttons. For example, if i pour her a bowl of cereal that SHE picked out, complete with the milk, then she refuses, i don't let her go round and round with me about other choices. I try to stay gentle and calm, but continue to tell her that mama has made this for her and that this was her final choice. If she really wants to eat, she generally ends up eating it - i don't make her eat it, i just refuse to fix three different things, all of which will be rejected. I cannot afford to waste food like that. For MY child, not going round and round on choices (though i certainly do offer them to her, usually two things), but taking a firm stand if it seems she wants to battle on it, or even letting it go and making no choices for a while (not eating til she's ready to make up her mind, in other words, though she is NOT denied food) does work. If it's about clothing, i really do try to let her wear what she wants as often as possible. If it's that she won't wear ANY clothes, i tell her that we can't go do xyz until she's dressed, then go about what i'm doing til she figures out that she can't go to the park naked .

Calmness throughout really helps.

mmm 2 years old, isn't it fun?

i'm sorry you're going through that... but it's totally normal.

this stood out to me:

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you're right: you do need to limit choices. but i also see another problem: you are also allowing her to dwell on the choice she cannot have. instead of explaining she can have her other option another day, simply gently remind her, "no, you can either have ______ or _______ those are your options." repeat this as many times as necessary, always keeping your tone even and calm. eventually she'll realize you're giving her two choices, and she can either choose one, or choose none (and in the case of food, go hungry). i found that when my son would continue to argue about what he wanted v. the choices i was presenting him with, he wasn't really that hungry. one time, i asked him what he wanted for lunch, ______ or _____ and he suggested something else, and we went in circles about it for literally like twenty minutes, and i finally stopped and asked him, "michael, are you actually hungry?" he thought for a minute and said, "no." and walked away.

when my son first learned to make himself "cry" i would remind him gently, "mama can see that you're not really crying. crying isn't going to get you what you want. go ahead and let out your tantrum, and then we'll talk." and i'd turn mostly away from him and "ignore" him while he wailed and wailed... and finally he realized that crying wasn't going to work to get him what he wanted, so he'd stop. then when he was more calm i'd hug him. i just had to teach him that he wasn't going to keep getting attention for trying to use fake emotions. if a child learns that they keep getting attention for their fake tears, they'll keep using it to manipulate you.

also, the last bit about wanting to see herself sad ~ my son still does that sometimes (he's almost 4). it's annoying... but also in a way it teaches them about their own expressions and emotions. when my son first started doing that i had no idea how to deal with it, then finally i ended up just telling him, "go ahead. go watch yourself cry." and he'd stand in front of the mirror for what seemed like forever and wail, bring forth tears, rub his eyes, and carry on... and then finally stop and get distracted by something else (or start talking to his reflection). kids can be weird like that.

eta ~ i also just realized the inherent difference in the choices you are presenting her with (beans v. risotto balls) and the choice she suggested (scrambled eggs). have you considered that maybe she just really doesn't like or can't stand to eat either of the things you're presenting her with? i'm a firm believer that kids will develop tastes based on what they are presented with on a daily basis... but i also know that kids' tastes are very different than adults', and also that 2 years old is around the time children really start rejecting foods based on colors / textures / other reasons that adults can't fathom. you might consider what kinds of foods she really likes to eat, and what kinds of food you're always offering her... and then perhaps you can change what you regularly offer her so she can have something equally nutritious that's still something she likes.

Hi klothos,

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions.

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Yes, you are right. Reminding her that she can have the third option another day opens the door to another avenue for debate:

Me: 'Beans or Risotto Balls?'
C: 'Scrambled Eggs'
Me: 'You can have scrambled eggs another day, Beans or Risotto Balls?'
C: 'Not another day, now mamma'
Me: 'How about scrambled eggs tomorrow?'
C: 'Ciara wants scrambled eggs now mamma'

...and suddenly we're not talking about the original choices any more. It's like debating with DH. It blows my mind how far from the original topic we get in every disagreement.

She does, however, LOVE beans and risotto balls. She will often fetch the beans herself and give them to me if she feels like a snack.

Choosing to ignore her tears is always a tough one. When she is 'fake' crying she will ask for a cuddle. I cannot bring myself to refuse her a hug, ever. In any struggle where she feels she is at the 'losing' end of the battle, she will break the ice by demanding something totally out of left field, like a hug... so that she feels that while she may have lost the battle, she ultimately won the war. Sometimes she asks to nurse. I am torn about this, because I don't want nursing or cuddles to become an area of struggle or currency. They are like home to her. A place where she grounds herself, regathers her self to face the other issues. After she cuddles or nurses she willingly makes a choice of the two options. I do feel I've been taken in, however.

Whaddaya think? How might you handle the request for cuddles etc.?

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If you read back over your last paragraph, I think you answered your own question. Perhaps she needs that moment of cuddling or nursing to center herself. It's not necessarily a "manipulative" strategy. It's a way for her to ground herself in order to get to a place where she can make the decision you're asking her to make. The outcome is that she makes the choice within the boundaries you've set, right? So, it's not as though she's nursing or cuddling and then choosing scrambled eggs again.

I always give in to requests for cuddles or nursing. I still stand firm on the choices, of course, but there's no reason to deny him what he needs in that respect.

Look at it this way: There's a reason that she wants to make this third choice. She's finding her own voice. It's okay to sympathize with her need while still setting the limit - you're not giving in, you're just letting her know that she's understood. That's what everyone wants, right?

My DD when through a change in reaction to my discipline strategies when she was 2.5 so I have a few things to add. First, it sounds like you're doing a great job and your child sounds totally normal.

DC did the 'no' first thing and is now saying 'yes' first to everything. I really don't think it has anything to do with discipline though ~ seems more language orientated to me.

I don't know about the kissing thing but DC will not ever give affection if she doesn't feel like it and she definitely prefers to instigate it herself.

The choices thing is what really got problematic for us during this age. I have actually reevaluated the choices strategy because of some issues I have with it. I think giving choices to a young child gives them the impression that they have 100% control over the choice. When the child develops a little more they realize that you're controlling the choice. When DC realized this I think she felt betrayed. I don't think it's a coincidence that this was the time that she changed from getting pissed when she couldn't have something to being 'devastated' like you described your DC. I just think they are beginning to understand that they aren't in control and that's a tough realization. Our solution was to allow DC some more control in other places in our life.

The only other advice I have is to take an extra few moments to think about a situation before you react if things aren't coming naturally for you at this (or any) stage. That's what I have to do. I do not believe in "natural" parenting instincts and I think the whole idea of them undermines us. I've read and reread and have to constantly think about parenting. I probably misuse the word 'natural' when I really mean easy. Some things come easy some don't ~ for all of us!

I agree with Dragonfly about the cuddles issue. You are not "giving in" by allowing cuddles or nursing unless that is what the battle is over, which I'm sure it never will be. Yes, your child may want a distraction. Maybe the goal is to get you to "give in" but as long as you don't - what's the problem. Besides, it's far more likely that your child just wants to move on. For us, a request for a hug is usually the indication that DC has given up and wants to reconnect or needs comfort because of the disappointment.

One last thought, DC sometimes makes herself cry but asking for things she knows she can't have or by doing something she knows will upset me. This is an odd thing but it helps immensely to recognize it if that is part of what's going on. Is there any chance of this happening?

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Yea, she's cool.

my sister's dd turned 2 last week and i just spent 2 weeks with her in the 2 year old world...wow
it is sooo much harder than i thought!
but your child sounds just like my sis's dd, she loves the word no right now and is doing some rejecting things with her dad....
my sis did one cool trick that seemed to work great most of the time that i will share:
when hannah was doing the no thing or demanding other chioces that were not exceptable (like going otuside to play after dark etc) then my sis would tell her what to say.,...
it seemed like hannah would become obssesed with saying one statemnet over and over and she even forgot what and why she was saying it....so my sis would gently guide her back to sanity and the situation at hand by saying "hannah, say: i am tired mommy, i am ready for bed." or "hannah, say: yes mommy i want to eat beans" and almost everytime hannah would repeat after my sister and then pretty much happily do the thing that my sister wanted her to do in the first place.
good luck
s