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anyone used this? Are you supposed to start with night time and then deal with naps later? I'm rocking my ds to sleep for every nap and bedtime. right now its not a problem but eventually i need him to fall asleep on his own without using CIO. with my dd i weaned her from rocking gradually, at 5 minute increments. But I cant remember if I did it every time or just at night time and then worked on naps once we had night time established. Wouldn't it mess things up if I rocked him to sleep a long time during the day for naps but not at night?
 

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I'm not a fan of this book. Even Dr. Sears sleep book is better, IMO.
 

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So far I'm having pretty good results just using the parts of NCSS that fit for me, like the Pantley pull off and laying the baby down when he's almost asleep. Many times I have to repeat the process, but it's gotten better and better. I nurse or rock until sleepy and lay him down almost asleep. Now he often just relaxes to sleep rather than tensing up at the loss of the nipple. I'm not the best at all the routine stuff, but am working on developing sleep associations I can live with. Tonight I rubbed his head until he was sleepy and let him doze off from there. The thing I trip up on is getting too busy and just nursing/rocking him to sleep and he starts to get used to it and I have to work on getting him to do it on his own (learning to relax). He's 2.5 mos though, so I know I have a long way to go. I know with my dd, introducing alternative sleep associations (blanket, warm milk, songs, etc.) alongside nursing/rocking helped a lot when I had to stop parenting to sleep 100% (this was after age 2 yo for her).<br><br>
It's not about doing it all the time, for me, but learning to be ok with other methods some of the time. Then you can make it permenant for night time, etc. I'd start with a time of day that you don't mind repeating the 'get sleepy' process a few times over.
 

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wasn't a big fan of this book either, our issue was how to get the baby to sleep and the book had no suggestions for that <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> I think it would be ok for your child to go to sleep different ways at night and for naps, as long as that works for your child I'd go for it <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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i liked this book ~ it wasn't 100% helpful but it gave me some direction and in the long run, helped DS sleep better.<br><br>
anyway, the answer is no, you should be worried about naps. according to pantley (and it's true in DS's case) napping well (by the child's individual standards, not by any hard and fast rule) is a prerequesite to getting a good night's sleep. napping poorly can be the start of a vicious cycle of sleeping poorly in general. soooo...she says you are supposed to do whatever it takes to get your child to nap (even if that means lying there nursing the whole time), and this should make things easier at night.<br><br>
i will admitt i used to have to stay with DS while he napped, and eventually moved to knitting in the dark bedroom, to leaving the room but making sure the phone was unplugged and quietly reading, to being able to do whatever i want and make as much noise as i need. it was a long road, and i still lie down with ds for him to go to sleep at naptime and bedtime, but he generally stays asleep and is getting really good at self-soothing.<br><br>
who knows if he would have gotten to this point on the same timeline without the book's help but it gave me some direction so i didn't feel so lost in the world of baby sleep <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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I didn't get anything out of this book either. It mostly assumes the baby can't fall asleep without nursing, which was not our problem. From memory, it doesn't address the issue of babies who simply wake tons and are wakeful at night.
 

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I would say, just be careful with NCSS. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> She has ideas that seem to work for some babies, but they don't work for just as many. And, it can be kind of devastating when you can't get any of them to work.<br><br>
The book made me obsessed with DD's sleep, I watched the clock way too much, and I didn't understand what is very natural and normal for babies. I became this odd person who was either up all night worrying about why the techniques weren't working or up all night celebrating that she just slept 30 minutes longer that stretch.<br><br>
Also, some of her techniques are really unrealistic for babies until they're older--now that DD is older, many of the expectations NCSS put in my head seem so silly for a baby under 12 or even 18 months.<br><br>
If I could do it all over again, I would read <a href="http://www.mothering.com/guest_editors/quiet_place/141.html" target="_blank">this</a> article so I had a sense of what is normal and natural for babies. And then I would get rid of the clock in my room and focus on how I feel in the morning, rather than in hoping I can train DD out of what are natural (albeit annoying) waking patterns.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I guess I should have mentioned, I'm very fortunate that both of my children sleep 10-12 hours at night. My ds wakes up after 10 but nurses for a couple minutes and goes right back to sleep. So that's not an issue. But right now I rock him to sleep for naps and bedtime for an hour. I'd like to get that down to 5 minutes or so, that way I can tend to my oldest.
 

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Not sure how old your dc is but if she is young I reccomend the Lull-A-Baby Sleep Plan over the NCSS. I am lucky my 5 month old sleeps 12+ hours and only nibbles at night which does not bother my sleep... I hope it keeps up that way.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>FreeThinkinMama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7962135"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Wouldn't it mess things up if I rocked him to sleep a long time during the day for naps but not at night?</div>
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Not necessarily. That's exactly what I do. I always rock/nurse the little peanut (2 yrs) to sleep for naps, and on most nights (recently, in any case; we had a little situation for a few months where this was out the window) I nurse him lying down w/him on our bed, and then dp takes him off to his crib where he usually falls asleep in his crib with dp in the room. Takes about 15-30 minutes. We've instilled this mantra in his head at night: nurse with mummy, dodo with mama ("dodo" is French baby-talk for going to sleep).<br><br>
When we started doing this, dp would resort to a bottle with soy milk if I wasn't home. That was a long time ago and it's no longer needed.<br><br>
Personally, I'd tackle the night first b/c I think the idea of sleep is more ingrained in them at night. don't know how useful NCSS will be to you. I've read the baby and toddler books, and while there's lots of great, useful info, I can't say the "method" worked for us.<br><br>
I'm assuming that your dc isn't over-tired and is napping regularly as well as sleeping well at night; if not, I agree with PP that regular napping is crucial to an easier night-time put-down.
 

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nak<br><br>
got the book for nap issues, but it wasn't that helpful. dd does pretty good at night so i wasn't too concerned. i agree that a lot of the stuff seems like it's for older babes. i'll probably reference it again in a few months.
 

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My ds's bf never got more than 5 hours of sleep a night. I require 8 or 9 to function. DS has never taken a nap in his life, and he's 10 now. When he was an infant people kept telling me I shouldn't be so tired 'since babies sleep a lot' ha! I remember him, at 3 months, shaking his head back and forth and up and down to try to stay awake. He would not stay asleep unless he was being held or hugged, so often I slept in a chair holding him. To this day, he rarely sleeps more than 6 1/2 to 7 hours, and it seems to be the right amount of sleep for him. My dh can get by on little sleep too, but dd and I have to go to bed earlier than everyone else in the house most days.<br><br>
I feel for you.<br><br>
8)
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>stacey2061</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7965379"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">anyway, the answer is no, you should be worried about naps. according to pantley (and it's true in DS's case) napping well (by the child's individual standards, not by any hard and fast rule) is a prerequesite to getting a good night's sleep. napping poorly can be the start of a vicious cycle of sleeping poorly in general. soooo...she says you are supposed to do whatever it takes to get your child to nap (even if that means lying there nursing the whole time), and this should make things easier at night.<br><br></div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:
 

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We had the NCSS and then the NCSS for toddlers. Honestly I think the toddler version is better since it has the same info as the baby version plus a half dozen other chapters addressing sleep needs as kiddos get bigger/older...so we get a lot more use out of the toddler book.<br><br>
That said, I found a lot of her ideas helpful but I never did the "sleep log"/"watch the clock thing. DH and I just tried out the different ideas, trying each one consistantly for a week or two, and figured out the routine that worked best for dd.<br><br>
For example, the pantley pull off never worked for us, but soothing dd for a moment first during the night instead of just nursing her automatically (after about 8mo) seemed to help her sleep better. And using her "key word" idea helped too. As did making sure dd's nighttime routine was short and to the point and always done in the same order.<br><br>
I really like how she presents a lot of differnent ideas but also makes a point that not everything works for everyone and it's important to listen to yourself and find the mix that works for your specific family and child at that specific time and then be open to changing that as your needs change!<br><br>
But pp are right...Pantley stresses that good naps mean good sleep at night, and that an overtired child doesn't sleep as well or as deeply. So I think that working on just the nighttime first would be fine! I know that I still nurse dd to sleep for naps, but she doesn't nurse to sleep at night. And that's not a problem for us.
 

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I found a lot of good advice in the Toddler version of the book. For me the most important ideas were that 1) kids don't just fall asleep naturally, they more'r'less need to be taught how to sleep, 2) a whole lot of kids have sleep problems so don't be surprised if yours does as well , 3) a sleep ritual is really important, 4) you need to factor in some time for the sleep ritual; kids will not fall asleep in 10 min's just for your convenience; 5) naps are important and poor naps equal poor sleep at night; 6) shortening the time of naps does not help -- see #5. We implemented several of her ideas and sleep has gotten a lot better.
 
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