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One of the teachers at DD's daycare uses this phrase when a child in the class is doing something s/he shouldn't be doing. Basically it's a substitute for just plain "no"<br><br>
Redirection is very big, but I've heard her use "no thank you" several times.<br><br>
Now my DH is picking this up. We are fairly childproofed but some things can't be avoided. For example, the catdoor is an endless source of fascination for DD - there's a flap over it that is held closed with a magnet at the bottom and she likes to stick any part of her body through it that she can. The problem with this is that the basement stairs are right on the other side and she could fall down them. The cats need access to the basement as their food and litter are down there, and the door is inconveniently placed in the center of everything, so short of boarding up the door (which we do temporarily when DD gets very insistent about trying it over and over) there isn't any kind of prevention we can do there. We redirect but whenever gets a chance she makes a beeline for the cat door. So if she does stick her hand through, and DH isn't right there to physically remove her, he calls out "no thank you Jordan!" on the way over.<br><br>
What are everyone's thoughts on this? Is "no thank you" any better or worse than just "no?" Any other ideas on how to handle the cat door fiasco?<br><br><br>
Incidentally - and this may be a separate post - DD also screeches in the car. She has never been a car baby but lately she emits ear-piercing shrieks and strains against the straps. She does it *constantly* and it's **REALLY** annoying. I'm sensitive to loud noise anyway, so this makes me want to jump out of my skin. Leaves me terribly low on patience. Generally if she will not accept toys/ distractions I ignore her, the message being "this behavior will not change the situation". DH has begun saying "no thank you!" in the car too. It doesn't seem to help. But I"m not sure how other people handle this car stuff with GD. You're both trapped in there for the duration of the trip and unfortunately we live at least 20 minutes away from everything. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/crap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="crap">
 

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My SIL does the no thank you thing. I hate it. I htink it worse thaqn just plain no. It is almost sarcastic. no not nessecarily sarcastic. I don't know what it is but it doesn't sit well with me. Maybe snippy? Anyway, nope don't like it. I prefer just plain no.
 

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When ds (1 or 2) offer something we don't want, we do say "no thank you". For a long time when he was 2, ds1 would say no thanks when he didn't want something. I found it made the negative twos much more bearable. As a redirection tool <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"> don't know. It can't be much worse than eh?, nien, uh-uh, or no! (said at top volume by ds1 to ds2 so as not to turn off "Bob the Builder") all of which goes on at my house. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/blush.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="blush"><br>
Does it bother <i>you</i> much when DH says it?<br>
And sorry no ideas about the cat door.
 

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not a fan of no thank u for no....I use no sparingly and instead say, You may.....whatever or if needed, you may not.....works pretty well for us <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
btw...I read about using that phrase in, "Beyond the Rainbow Bridge"...awesome book... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">
 

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I'd think that using "no thank you" in those situations could get confusing, since it does have a different meaning than just "no." When ds is getting into something dangerous and I'm a couple of seconds away from being able to physically intervene, I'll exclaim "ah-bah-bah-bah-bah!" or some other odd sound, just to get his attention. He then tends to stop and look at me, trying to figure out what BizarroMom is doing, and it gives me those needed seconds to intercept him.<br><br>
Have you looked at the cat doors that have keys that the cats wear on their collars? I mean something like<br><br><a href="http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=2248&N=2002+22797" target="_blank">http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...8&N=2002+22797</a><br><br>
I've never used one, but it might work to keep your dd out of the opening while letting the cats through.<br><br>
Lisa
 

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We say, "No please" we almost always follow "no" with "please" it's just respectful. Maybe the teacher is thinking along the same lines and just doesn't see the "belittling that "no thank you" emits.<br><br>
About the car, are the straps hurting her? That's all I can think of <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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i don't necessarily think it's a bad thing to redirect using "no thank you" but it also would just feel weird to my mouth to say it that way, since it's not actually the correct grammatical use of that phrase. LOL (nerd much??)<br><br>
i have the same issue with "no please" because...well...that just isn't a sentence.<br><br>
so instead, i say "Don't do that, please" or i use the specifics of what he's doing. like "don't climb on the table, please" and as soon as he stops, i say "thank you!"<br><br>
it's working well - mostly because ME being polite actually helps me keep my patience. to hear myself yelling "no!" pisses me off just as much as it pisses him off. LOL<br><br>
DS is so used to it now that as soon as he's about to do something bad, he pauses and looks at me and says "thank you!" LOL!!<br><br>
anyway, i'd suggest that if you're asking DS or DD to do/not do something, it would be most appropriate to use "please" and when they comply, use your "thank you".<br><br>
oh, another thing...i find that it works better if i say please at the END of my request sentence. if i say "please don't climb on the table" he's gonna hear "Table" last and that's more likely to be the word that sticks in his mind. i'd rather have "please" be the last thing. he knows he's being redirected so he'll stop whatever it was that he was doing (usually lol) and he'll hear "please" more consistently than the other nouns that are in the sentence, kwim?<br><br>
anyway....good luck! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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oh, about the car thing...when DS starts doing one of his signature whiny/fake pukey things i just tell him something like "Mommy's not going to listen to you when you do that." and wait until he stops, then i thank him and ask him what he wants.<br><br>
i don't really like the "not going to listen to you" part but i haven't found something else that he responds to. if anybody else has any other ideas about a good phrase to use, i'd appreciate it. i want to remind him that that won't work with me, and that he needs to use his words to tell me what he wants....but saying all of that would be lost on my 22mo. LOL
 

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I don't say "No, thank you" to redirect DD, but I've taught HER to say it to me. She used to scream "No!" at us, but once she learned the phrase of "No, thank you" she just says it (instead of screaming). It helps a lot. Saying it to redirect is weird, though . . .although I don't like this term, it sounds passive-agressive to me.<br><br>
I also don't say "thank you" when DD complies. I say something like "You stopped!" or something like that.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>michelemiller</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">oh, about the car thing...when DS starts doing one of his signature whiny/fake pukey things i just tell him something like "Mommy's not going to listen to you when you do that." and wait until he stops, then i thank him and ask him what he wants.<br><br>
i don't really like the "not going to listen to you" part but i haven't found something else that he responds to. if anybody else has any other ideas about a good phrase to use, i'd appreciate it. i want to remind him that that won't work with me, and that he needs to use his words to tell me what he wants....but saying all of that would be lost on my 22mo. LOL</div>
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We have used "mommy doesn't understand (insert whining/screaming/etc) Please use your words" It has worked pretty well for us.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Mizelenius</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't say "No, thank you" to redirect DD, but I've taught HER to say it to me. She used to scream "No!" at us, but once she learned the phrase of "No, thank you" she just says it (instead of screaming). It helps a lot. Saying it to redirect is weird, though . . .although I don't like this term, it sounds passive-agressive to me.<br><br>
I also don't say "thank you" when DD complies. I say something like "You stopped!" or something like that.</div>
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About the "thank you" versus "you stopped!" - I read "easy to love, difficult to discipline" and the author has a big emphasis on this. She says please and thank you are words you use when someone is doing you a favor as opposed to following a command... never occurred to me prior to reading the book but it makes a lot of sense. She talks about reserving please and thank you for situations where the child is not expected to comply (like "would you bring this juice to daddy please? thank you") as opposed to a situation where the action isn't optional ("please get in your car seat now, thank you")<br><br>
Which is why the no thank you seems weird to me too. DH isn't snippy about it but the teacher is a bit. The other ideas here are great though. Lisa20014, I also make inane sounds to get DD to look at me :LOL "ahboogaboogabooga" is one of her favorites and distracts her laughing until I can get to her.<br><br>
A little off-topic, but the cat doors where it's collar-activated - what happens when something without a collar tries to go through? Doesn't it deliver an electric shock? Eek! Will have to look those up...
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Jordansmommy</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">About the "thank you" versus "you stopped!" - I read "easy to love, difficult to discipline" and the author has a big emphasis on this. She says please and thank you are words you use when someone is doing you a favor as opposed to following a command... never occurred to me prior to reading the book but it makes a lot of sense.</div>
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I read the same book and that's why I do it, too! I LOVE that book!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Jordansmommy</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">About the "thank you" versus "you stopped!" - I read "easy to love, difficult to discipline" and the author has a big emphasis on this. She says please and thank you are words you use when someone is doing you a favor as opposed to following a command... never occurred to me prior to reading the book but it makes a lot of sense. She talks about reserving please and thank you for situations where the child is not expected to comply (like "would you bring this juice to daddy please? thank you") as opposed to a situation where the action isn't optional ("please get in your car seat now, thank you")</div>
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Somehow, for me, saying "thank you" after a child follows a command still feels okay. Even though I may not view any action other than compliance as an acceptable response, he still has other options to choose from. I may have made the decision that, for example, the situation will end with him in his car seat, but I can still feel appreciative that he decided to get in on his own without our both having to go through the turmoil of a tantrum because he'd rather explore the trunk or something. So, since I appreciate his decision to cooperate, "thank you" feels appropriate to me.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Jordansmommy</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">A little off-topic, but the cat doors where it's collar-activated - what happens when something without a collar tries to go through? Doesn't it deliver an electric shock? Eek! Will have to look those up...</div>
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No, no, I think the door just won't open unless the key comes near it. Now I'm picturing all these dazed animals wandering around the yard... :LOL<br><br>
Lisa
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>lilyka</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My SIL does the no thank you thing. I hate it. I htink it worse thaqn just plain no. It is almost sarcastic. no not nessecarily sarcastic. I don't know what it is but it doesn't sit well with me. Maybe snippy? Anyway, nope don't like it. I prefer just plain no.</div>
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I feel what you do, but I can't quite put my finger on it either.<br><br>
I know that I would hate it if say, my boss at work, shouted "No, thank you..." at me from across the room as I was about to do something wrong.<br><br>
I think what I don't like is that the "thank you" sounds like a period after the word "no." As in, <i>"You *are* going to do what I say, so I thank you in advance, and there will be no room for disscussion."</i> It doesn't leave room for feelings, or explaining yourself, or learning what to do instead.<br><br>
And it does sound a little sarcastic too, because you say "no thank you" when you want to extend appreciation for the thought. So by saying it when you don't appreciate the thought, you are being sarcastic about the child's intentions.<br><br>
Blah. I just don't like it.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mamaduck</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think what I don't like is that the "thank you" sounds like a period after the word "no." As in, <i>"You *are* going to do what I say, so I thank you in advance, and there will be no room for disscussion."</i> It doesn't leave room for feelings, or explaining yourself, or learning what to do instead.</div>
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Yes, this is what's problematic about 'no, thank you' to get a child to stop their behavior. It's pretty condescending.<br><br>
I don't know how to quote twice, so I'll just paraphrase from lisa20014: you said you still like 'thank you' after your child does something he's expected to do, like get into his car seat himself without a tantrum. But, isn't it really, then, the expectation of his lack of cooperation that leads you to say 'thank you'? I'm wondering if it might be better to assume they are going to do the right thing instead. A similar example: we work not to over-praise our DS when he does something that's expected of him, and instead give encouragement ('You put your cup down gently.' -- as opposed to dropping it on the floor like he often does). I think this gives him expectations to work up to, and doesn't make him do things for unnatural "rewards" like praise.
 

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"No thank you" is not the right response for that or used as a command. The child is not offering you anything when she reaches for the vase. The appropriate response (in my home) would be "not for ______" or "stop" or "hey, look at the ball!" or "no, ____ let's do this instead".<br><br>
I teach ds to say "no, thank you" when I ask him if he'd like some water and he says "no".<br><br>
Cheers,
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kchoffmann</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't know how to quote twice, so I'll just paraphrase from lisa20014: you said you still like 'thank you' after your child does something he's expected to do, like get into his car seat himself without a tantrum. But, isn't it really, then, the expectation of his lack of cooperation that leads you to say 'thank you'?</div>
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I don't think so. I mean, I say "thank you" to ds all the time, whether I expected him to cooperate or not. For instance, if I ask him to put a shirt in the hamper (something which he's likely to do when asked), I'm likely to thank him when he does it. If I asked dh to do it, I'd thank him, too. So I'm not just thanking him when I wasn't expecting him to do what I asked. It just seems natural to me to thank people for doing what I've asked them to do.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kchoffmann</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm wondering if it might be better to assume they are going to do the right thing instead. A similar example: we work not to over-praise our DS when he does something that's expected of him, and instead give encouragement ('You put your cup down gently.' -- as opposed to dropping it on the floor like he often does). I think this gives him expectations to work up to, and doesn't make him do things for unnatural "rewards" like praise.</div>
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I would certainly agree that praise can be counterproductive. I also think that in some circumstances, saying "thank you" could backfire. I could see a child hearing it as "thank you for giving in and doing what I want...I win!", and I could also see a parent meaning it that way, which wouldn't be helpful or healthy. I also think that pointedly saying "thank you" for every little thing (for instance, for every lego picked up and put in the box) could end up teaching a child that it's only worth doing things if mom/dad expresses their appreciation constantly. When I thank ds, it's not with any forethought of, "hmm, that's a behavior I'd like to see more of, so I'll say thank you to reward him." I'm just feeling honoestly appreciative for his help.<br><br>
My point was only that, in my opinion, thanking a child for cooperating even when it might not have been the child's first impulse (e.g., getting in the carseat when he'd rather explore the car, putting an item back on a store shelf) makes as much sense as thanking them for cooperating in a less difficult situation (e.g., handing you something), because they really do have options even when the issue isn't up for debate (for instance, we're not going anywhere without ds in his carseat and we're not buying a miniature coral reef when we don't even own a fishtank, but ds still has the options of accepting those realities or struggling against them).<br><br>
I don't think that I actually do use "thank you" in those situations very often, now that I'm thinking about it more. (I think I'm more likely to say "now Mommy can start the car and we can hear our music," etc., kind of pointing out how we all benefit when we work together.) I was just explaining how I don't think a situation with only one acceptable option (from the parent's point of view) necessarily makes "thank you" illogical.<br><br>
I think I'm rambling. Ds has been asleep for about 1.5 hours, so I'm on alert for waking-up noises. Not very conducive to focused thinking!<br><br>
Lisa
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>sagira</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">"No thank you" is not the right response for that or used as a command. The child is not offering you anything when she reaches for the vase. The appropriate response (in my home) would be "not for ______" or "stop" or "hey, look at the ball!" or "no, ____ let's do this instead".</div>
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Somehow this post made me realize that there actually are times when I use "no thank you" when I'm stopping ds from doing something. It's when he's doing something that is a misapplication of something that really is helpful or a nice thing to do. For instance, when he tries to force feed cheerios to the cat. Not a great idea, but he really is trying to do something appropriate, because he knows that we feed him food, and he likes to pretend to feed his dolls and stuffed animals (and us!), so why wouldn't the cat like some food too? Or when he starts tossing things in the garbage. He knows we do it sometimes, and we've even asked him to throw things away for us. so why isn't it a good idea to put the remote control in the garbage? Basically, if he's doing something with good intent, but it's not something we want him doing, I may say, "no, thank you," to kind of recognize, "yes, I know that from the 17 month old perspective, it seems like a logical thing to do, but I still need to stop you."<br><br>
I definitely still disagree with using "no thank you" for other situations, like the ones in the OP.<br><br>
Lisa
 
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