[mistymama]

I'm struggling with something and I guess need to write it out here to clear my head. Any thoughts, responses, comments are welcome.

I have a wonderful 4.5 year old who has so far been raised with GD. He was home with me until last year when he attended preschool at a Waldorf school, and his teachers were wonderful and GD as well. I'm now a working mama, I have a very flexable schedule but I do need some childcare, so I have him in a preschool program. The Waldorf school did not have a summer program, so I had to put him in a more traditional, Christian preschool.

He is really loving this school ... he likes going, kisses his teachers and is even doing things I never expected him to be able to do, like lay quiet during naptime on the days I have to leave him past noon. But I have noticed so many things that bother the hell out of me. The teachers don't use a very respectful tone with the kids, they expect way too much out of the kids and they use time outs and something else similar called "hiding your eyes" where you put your head down until the teacher says to put it back up. They use all kinds of rewards to get the kids to do activities. Basicly I'm a huge Alfie Kohn fan and I think he might have a stroke if he walked into this preschool!

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BUT BUT BUT .. I need the childcare. My son is only there a few hours a day, most days. I do have the option to leave him through nap, and that helps me a ton to be able to work and build my business. My son loves going and asks to stay and nap most days. When I pick him up, he throws a fit to stay longer, kisses his teachers good bye and is very happy. He's super verbal and is not shy about telling me when he's no liking something ... so I do know he's having a good time there. He's following their rules with no problems.

So I guess my dilema is this ... do I keep him there? He's loving it, it's super convenient for me, and the price is right. Or is sending him to that preschool going to ruin all the GD stuff I've been doing at home for the past almost 5 years?

What would you do in this situation? I'm really torn, but in the end, I'm thinking about keeping him there because he's happy.

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[dubfam]

I would pull him out. Immediately. It sounds like the way they are treating the kids is pretty terrible.
Yeah, they are getting him to do things that he never did for you...that is because you didn't do things like make him "Hide His Eyes" when he did something inappropriate.

Just because he likes it doesn't mean it is good for him.
And is it normal for kids to kiss their teachers these days? I don;t know how I would feel about that one...

Anyway, I am not trying to sound Snarky, but if you are a fan of Alfie Khon why would you even consider an environment like this for your son? It sounds AWFUL, and I was cringing reading your post.

I do understand being desperate for child care, but unless this is your only option for survival get him the HECK out of that "School"!!

Is there a teenager in the area that you could have watch him a few hours a day while you get some stuff done? It is summer, so they are all out of school. and you can make sure they are disciplining the way that you would.

 

[mistymama]

Nah, I didn't take it as snarky, not at all.

As far as kissing, maybe we are odd but it's something we do all the time, we kiss on the cheek and it's how my son shows affection. So when he goes to kiss his teacher goodbye, it's him giving her a peck on the cheek and for us, that's pretty normal.

I don't take these choices lightly, and I put him in this school because it came highly recommended, the times I visited they were doing really fun activities and they answered all of my questions well about discipline. I'm noticing this stuff now that we are already enrolled. Part of me wonders if I'm just making a big deal out of nothing .. I mean, I knew it was going to be very different from the Waldorf school.

So your answer is that yes, several hours a day is damaging. I'm really interested in opinions on this and will take everything into consideration. I've prided myself thus far on always listening to my gut and going with my instincts parenting-wise .. and my gut leans towards that fact that he's ok here. I can find other child care options, that's not the problem. I just honestly feel confused and want to make sure I'm not making a big deal out of nothing. I do appreacte your response and opinion.

 

[moondiapers]

I don't think it'll undo anything accept for.....he MAY start expecting rewards for good behavior. Children are really great at learning there are different rules in different environements. As long as you don't give in and start doing the punishment/reward thing at home I think he'll be fine. I'd not leave him there more than I absolutely had to though.
-Heather

 

[rmzbm]

I'd pull him IMMEDIATELY. "Hiding his eyes" - OMG! Shaming is NOT NOT NOT cool!

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[mistymama]

Thanks everyone for the input. I have a tendency to be a bit of a crazy mama bear when it comes to my son (aren't most of us!?) but I've really been struggling with this because while some of the things they do are sooo not my way, they also do lots of fun stuff and he's soo freakin' happy there.

Do I want him to "hide his eyes?" No, not really. But I'm also torn because I don't think it's the end of the world. Kinda of like time outs, I don't like them, but I'm not going to freak if he gets one (they did them on occasion at the Waldorf school as well).

But maybe I DO need to be freaking out more about this. I wish these decisions were easier.

 

[EnviroBecca]

My mother had a serious injury when I was young, and my brother and I had to go for a while to the only childcare center that had vacancies. The main method of "discipline" there was that if you were doing something wrong, the teacher would snap her fingers in your face and glare at you. Sometimes she would tell you what to do differently; usually you had to figure it out.

We were accustomed to GD and a sort of intelligent, egalitarian approach from our parents, so this was really weird. Overall we were not very comfortable there; we could find ways to stay entertained and out of "trouble" and reasonably happy, but it was a relief to get out of there at the end of the day.

BUT it made no difference in our responses to GD at home, our self-esteem, or our expectations about how we deserved to be treated. I would spend the early evening sitting next to my mom's bed telling her what had gone on during the day and critiquing everyone, and we'd agree that the teachers and kids all could behave more reasonably. Seeing another way of doing things gave us a basis for comparison and strengthened our feeling that our family was better than others.

I think that experiencing a different method of discipline won't necessarily harm your son. Since he is happy there, I wouldn't pull him out or worry a lot. However, it's worthwhile to discuss some of these specific tactics with the school director and suggest alternatives.

 

[Fuamami]

I totally disagree with the pps. I think if he's loving it, he can handle it.

It's a big, big world out there. He's 4.5, he's ready to see and understand that different people do different things. I would be really surprised if he started expecting rewards from you. I think most four year olds have started to grasp the concept of different perspectives.

And "hiding your eyes" can be used in a lot of different ways. I used to assist in a first grade classroom where the teacher asked kids to put their heads down as a tool to get them settled down and refocused. She didn't do it in a shaming way at all, and it is an effective way to help kids calm down.

If he felt like they were shaming him and hurting his feelings, wouldn't he tell you? Maybe he kind of likes having the rules and structure, it might jive with his personality?

I know what you mean about feeling like you should be freaking out more. I had a friend watch my kids a few mornings a week last fall, and she was feeding them the most horrible crap. She was also basically doing it for free, and I really needed the help, and I was suuuper stressed out. But I was just obsessing about them eating Doritos and "fruit" snacks every time they went over there, which was really not that big of a deal in the big picture. I mean, I ate crap like that whenever we went to my grandparents' house when I was a kid, and I turned out just fine. At least I think so!

 

[greeny]

Quote:

I would pull him out. Immediately. It sounds like the way they are treating the kids is pretty terrible.

If it was really that terrible, I doubt he'd be loving it as much as he does.

 

[mamaduck]

I think I'd be comfortable with it for the summer program, but probably not year 'round. Is it an option to put him in Waldorf for the school year, and this christian school for the summer? I believe you, that he's happy. But he's being taught concepts and ideolgies that I would not want established. These years are so foundational, you know? So yes -- I think its fine in small doses and there is nothing to freak out about.

 

[Ruthla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moondiapers I don't think it'll undo anything accept for.....he MAY start expecting rewards for good behavior. Children are really great at learning there are different rules in different environements. As long as you don't give in and start doing the punishment/reward thing at home I think he'll be fine. I'd not leave him there more than I absolutely had to though. -Heather

Quote:

Originally Posted by mamaduck I think I'd be comfortable with it for the summer program, but probably not year 'round. Is it an option to put him in Waldorf for the school year, and this christian school for the summer? I believe you, that he's happy. But he's being taught concepts and ideolgies that I would not want established. These years are so foundational, you know? So yes -- I think its fine in small doses and there is nothing to freak out about.

ITA with both of the above posters.

I don't think this school is that terrible- not ideal, but not terrible either. Keeping him here for the summer and putting him back into Waldorf for the school year sounds like the best option.

 

[ThreeBeans]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruthla ITA with both of the above posters. I don't think this school is that terrible- not ideal, but not terrible either. Keeping him here for the summer and putting him back into Waldorf for the school year sounds like the best option.

I agree with this. Watch your child's cues. If you see something in HIM that says, "pull him out", listen to it. If he seems to be handling it with good grace (which doesn't surprise me since he's had four years of GD to build his self-esteem and intelligence), just keep talking with him and paying attention.

 

[mistymama]

Thanks everyone for some more insight. I guess I forgot to add that he IS going back to Waldorf in the fall, he's going to be in Walforf Kindergarten.

To be honest, I don't love this school but he is happier here than he was in Waldorf. He had days in Waldorf that he didn't want to go, said he hated his teachers and I know they were just wonderful and kind, I know them personally. But I think he did get bored there, he is super bright, already reading and would learn their circle stories (that they tell for the entire month) in less than a week. So while Waldorf was beautiful and sweet, and he learned wonderful social lessons there, I do think the pace is a bit slow for his personality.

I think he likes the fast pace, learning and structure that this Christian school has. So now I'm wondering if I should try to find some sort of middle ground for fall ... something faster paced and with more reading type learning, but also with more gentle treatment. I wonder if that even exists, and if I can find it??!!

I thought long and hard about this last night, and I do appreciate everyone's opinions so very much. It's so nice to hear outside thoughts and get beyond what is going on in my head, kwim? But as I lay there thinking, I reflected on how connected my son and I are, how I've always been able to read him and make what I feel have been excellent decisions thus far in his care/school/etc. And I realized that he IS happy. He is handling this school well and enjoying it. Unless I see something else that concerns me, I'm going to keep him here for the summer, and return him to Waldorf or possibly something else in the fall.

Thank you again everyone for your help working through this in my head. In the end, I really needed to trust my connection and instincts with my son .. that has never proved wrong.

 

[1hautemama]

There are some wonderful montessori programs that might fit your DS's needs.

 

[mistymama]

Thanks Christine. I actually have found a few local Montessori programs that sound like they might be a good fit.

 

[mavery]

I agree with the pp's who said they wouldn't pull him out if he's happy. He probably has a pretty solid foundation of how things work at home and at his regular school. Kids are often good at compartmentalizing, I think.

Also, is *he* being asked to hide his eyes or have time outs? If he is and you think this bothers him, I would have a quiet word with the teacher and say "My ds reacts very strongly to this kind of discipline. I understand that you have a whole class of kids to deal with, but I wanted to let you know that just doing/saying X is usually more effective with him." If his behaviour usually does not warrant this kind of discipline then I wouldn't even worry about it. If he asks or comments on it I'd say something like "Different people have different ways of making sure everyone gets on and cooperates. This isn't how I do it, and it isn't how the teachers in your regular school do it, but that's what they do here. What do you think about it?"

 

[ThreeBeans]

I was also thinking Montessouri might be a good choice if he isn't thriving with Waldorf

 

[Dragonfly]

I think I'd gift the teacher a decent discipline book at then end of the summer.

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