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Non-stop sleep issues-- Update in post #20

851 Views 19 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  angelamariebee
This is more of a vent than anything but I haven't had a good nights sleep in... well about three years. I'm starting to lose it a little. Any help would be appreciated!

I've co-slept with my almost three year old (three in July) since birth. She's never slept for longer than a few hours, but for the first year or so, I was fine with that. Now that she's nearing three, I'm at my wits end here.

She nursed all through the night, about every hour or so until I decided to night wean her right before she turned two. That was horrible enough, but after a few weeks, she didn't ask to nurse at night anymore and while she was still waking frequently, it was not as often.

Then we had the problem of her only falling asleep while nursing. I weaned her right around 30 months, so that's not a problem anymore. But now I'm ready for her to be in her own bed.

I started this process a few times but she was SO obviously not ready. Now she's taking to it much better. We have a toddler bed set up next to ours. She argues a bit before bed saying she wants to come into "mama and daddy's bed" but there are rarely tears. The catch is that both my husband and I have to be in bed, lights out, eyes closed before she'll finally resign to her own bed and fall asleep. This is SO inconvenient, not to mention annoying.

She's still waking up crying most nights. I calm her from my bed, saying "It's okay, mama's here" but I don't touch her (When I first moved her into the toddler bed, I had to hold her hand practically all night. I'm 'weaning' her from that as well now). Even when she was in my bed, there was not much I could do. I suspect she may have night terrors, I can't see any other reason for her to be waking up screaming like this at her age.

She does sleep better and longer in her own bed, but not by much. I let her sleep in my bed the other night because she wasn't feeling well and both of us were tossing and turning all night.

I'm so TIRED and it's really wearing on me. It's hard for me to be a loving, sympathetic mom when she wakes up screaming at four in the morning for ten minutes straight. In my head I'm screaming, "SHUTTUP and go to sleep!" But I don't do that, because obviously it wouldn't do any good.

Oh and she stopped taking regular naps around 18 months and by two she only napped when she passed out at odd times from exhaustion. She doesn't do that very often though, and when she does it's usually and hour or two before bedtime, and she'll want to be up all night. Ever since she stopped taking regular naps, I've been trying to tweak her schedule- waking her up and hour earlier, or putting her to bed an hour later, etc- to try and find a schedule that works. I've tried bedtime routines, baths, singing, reading, blah blah. She will NOT give me a break.

My goal now is getting her into her own room and hopefully calming herself down when she wakes up (she does this some nights with no soothing words from me). I'm guessing this will take months if not longer. It's so frustrating when I'm at a friend's house, they tell their two year old "Okay, bedtime", give them a kiss on their forehead and they're out. WTF? Why not mine?!?!?!? (Albeit, my friend who's child does this, did CIO. I don't care what the results are, I'm just NOT willing to resort to that.)

On a side note, since I mentioned the possible night terrors, she has had a couple instances where she was sleep walking, about a year or so ago. I haven't noticed anything since, but I've read the two are connected. Thought I'd toss that in there .

Oh and I just read this over and I wanted to clarify: she wakes up constantly throughout the night- sometimes crying, and sometimes she just sits up, looks around and then goes back to sleep. They are two very different things. When she wakes up calm, she might ask for me, but those are the times I ignore it and she goes back to sleep on her own. I think the way I worded it earlier made it sound like she was screaming for ten minutes and I was ignoring THAT, but I don't. Just to be clear.

I feel like I'm taking one step forward, two steps back with this. There are other details I should probably mention, but this is pretty long as it is. If you'd like to know more I'll gladly fill you in. Thanks in advance!
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Is there any possibility that your dd has some food allergies or food intolerances?? Constant waking with agitation is a common theme on the allergy board. You may want to head over there and ask for some advice. My dd has lots of allergies, she is still nursing (unlike your dd) so she was only receiving her allergens through my bm and her sleep was much like you describe your dd's sleep. It was exhausting, I totally know where you are coming from
Your dd might not have what dr's call true allergies, but she may have intolerances which show themselves in subtle ways like bad sleep patterns and mood changes. With my dd, I had no idea that my diet was affecting her daytime mood until I cut her allergens out and found her to be so much happier and she even looked healthier and her appetite soared (she is a peanut). Probably the most common allergy/intolerance is dairy, but there are many others as well. If you head over to the allergy board the incredibly nice and knowledgeable ladies there could let you know how to figure out if your dd does have some food issues. Good luck!!! And I commend you on not going the CIO route. Like I said before, I know exactly where you are coming from and in those deepest and darkest hours of the night you sometimes are tempted to do CIO, but in the end it is far from ideal and for children like your dd and mine I don't even think it would work and it could do such damage to them


Beth
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Thanks so much! I REALLY hope it's not an allergy but I wouldn't be surprised. She didn't handle dairy well as an infant and I had to cut all of it out of my diet for a few months. Then she seemed to handle it fine, but I guess it didn't go away?? I'll definitely check out the other board, I'm willing to do anything if it would help. It wouldn't be too hard. We're practically vegan over here anyway- she already doesn't drink cow's milk, but she eats whole fat yogurt almost everyday.
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Although a child with food allergies is no cake walk, it is good that you might have an answer to her sleep issues
: From what I have learned it is rare for a dairy intolerance to go away completely. I have been told that for the most part the symptoms just change. For the longest time I didn't think my diet had any affect on my lo, I just thought she was a bad sleeper. Once I started frequenting the allergy board I became convinced that my diet was an issue for her. I now have to avoid a laundry list of foods (and I am pg). It totally stinks, I would love to tear into a big hunk of cheese
, but I am so glad to have an answer for dd's sleep issues. Nutrition I can get, but there is no substitute for sleep. Plus, the positive change in dd has made it all worth it. She went from waking a dz times a night and being a fitful sleeper to now waking about 2X a night and being a peaceful sleeper. So, there is hope!!! Good luck and I will probably run into you over on the allergy board.

Beth
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wow, mama!

i can't give you any advice, but i just wanted you to know that you're a super hero for meeting all of her needs for so long!!!

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Thanks everyone! There's not too much I can do about her diet ATM, but we'll be going grocery shopping within the next few days so I'll have to plan some dairy free dinners/snacks. Like I said, we eat practically vegan anyway so it shouldn't be too hard. Especially since I've done it before. :p
Quote:

Originally Posted by angelamariebee View Post
Thanks everyone! There's not too much I can do about her diet ATM, but we'll be going grocery shopping within the next few days so I'll have to plan some dairy free dinners/snacks. Like I said, we eat practically vegan anyway so it shouldn't be too hard. Especially since I've done it before. :p
I would say give it a week or two at least, it takes a while for dairy to leave the system completely. Make sure you read labels carefully as dairy likes to hide in the weirdest places. And don't give her anything if you can't read the label, no matter how safe you are sure it is. We had a really bad 3+ weeks because I was eating olives from an olive bar and I now know they probably had dairy in them. Yes olives! And no, they weren't in some creamy sauce, they were just oil cured olives. Good luck and let us know how you make out!

Beth
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Therese's Mommy View Post
I would say give it a week or two at least, it takes a while for dairy to leave the system completely. Make sure you read labels carefully as dairy likes to hide in the weirdest places. And don't give her anything if you can't read the label, no matter how safe you are sure it is. We had a really bad 3+ weeks because I was eating olives from an olive bar and I now know they probably had dairy in them. Yes olives! And no, they weren't in some creamy sauce, they were just oil cured olives. Good luck and let us know how you make out!

Beth
That was actually my next question. I wasn't sure how soon to expect any results.

I am a compulsive label reader! We're vegetarians and you'd be surprised at all the weird foods I find meat in. We don't buy a lot of foods with long, complicated ingredient lists now, it's just easier to make most of our meals from scratch. Healthier too.


My husband has been trying to get us to quit dairy for quite awhile now, so when I told him about this he was really excited.

The only time I see a problem arising is when we are at friends' houses. She's already having to eat separate meals from the other kids, because they all eat meat. And this just separates her further. I feel a little guilty sometimes, even if I know it's for the best, kwim?

I need to find some snacks and quick meals I can easily prepare in large batches and take with us while we're out.
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I am totally with you as we are veg as well. Before discovering dd's allergies I made most everything we ate from scratch. Her allergies have taken that to a whole new level. Like you, I will not buy anything that has more than 4 or 5 ingredients in the list. That is the one real positive about food allergies, they really force you to eat more healthy.

It is hard when the lo gets left out of things. My dd also has an allergy to eggs (and a bunch of other things) so she couldn't dye Easter eggs with her sister. Instead I made her some safe playdough (who knew that regular Play Doh has wheat in it, another of her allergens) and she had a blast playing with that and didn't care at all about the eggs. You definitely have a head start on parents that eat a more SAD. It won't be too hard for you to come up with alternatives for her.

Do you eat soy? Many people that have problems with dairy also have problems with soy. Although initially it was thought that soy was a safe thing for my dd it most certainly is not, so I would just be careful with that as well. My mommy instinct told me not to give it to her. I found out about her allergy because I broke down and started eating it myself (my choices are super limited right now).

Good luck! And you can get a lot of great ideas and support over on the allergy board


Beth
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We don't eat a ton of soy. I hope she doesn't have a problem with that too, she loves tofu! How did you recognise the allergy? I guess I'll ask over in the allergy board, haha.
We have the dairy problem too. DD wakes up and screams for 30+ minutes until she passes some gas. After many months dairy free I unwisely gave her some cheese last week to see if we had any improvement. Big mistake.

It really is a major difference.
It's really encouraging to hear people have had similar problems and were able to curb them by eliminating dairy. Thanks so much!
Quote:

Originally Posted by angelamariebee View Post
We don't eat a ton of soy. I hope she doesn't have a problem with that too, she loves tofu! How did you recognise the allergy? I guess I'll ask over in the allergy board, haha.
Well, the issues can present themselves in many different ways, unfortunately. On the one extreme are the ana reactions, which obviously your dd doesn't have. On the other end of the spectrum are things like sleep disturbances, moodiness/mood changes, GI isssues. With my dd, I was the one eating it passing it to her through bm and her symptoms were eczema, sleep issues, and mood changes.

You could eliminate both and then if she improves trial each of them to see if one of them is ok. Originally I was just going to cut dairy from my diet to see if dd improved, but I decided to just do the whole ball of wax and I am glad that I did. But my situation is a bit different than yours. My dd's allergies are IgE (yours seem to be what they call IgG) and I had a list of things to start with because of testing. Haven't headed over to the allergy board yet today, but perhaps you have and have gotten some good advice there. The women there are pros at elimination diets.

Beth
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Not to be mean- but please be cautious in your expectations. We checked high and low for allergies, I starved myself to near death (I am also vegetarian- that does not leave you with much to eat on elimination diets) forever trying to see a difference- there was none.

No amount of "no dairy, soy" etc, anything.

Hats of to you for being patient- my son is 2 years old and some night I do have to yell and/or leave the room because it is grating on your nerves if your child is waking up yet AGAIN to scream his/her head off. It was better in between for us (and a WORLD better after he is not nursing anymore, it really made a difference, not a popular opinion around here but true for us) but he molars are HELL for all of us. But he also was high need baby, really high need.

Sounds like from you daytime description that you daughter is also fairly highneed during the day- and that sometimes cannot be fixed by food choices. I always envied people who saw a result this way. For us it's just time.

Although I admire you for "screaming in you head", sometimes I do happen to say something very, very loud because it is beyond "tiring" to have frequent toddler hourlong freakouts. My MIL just heard my DS on the weekend do what you described- any siblings will be a looot younger because I simply cannot handle another baby this way.
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No, I know. I'm actually not an optimistic person by nature, so in the back of my head I'm thinking, "This cannot possibly work." But with DD's history with dairy it just makes sense. Honestly, I probably wouldn't even try if she hadn't been "allergic" before. :/

And I didn't mean to imply that I NEVER yell! I have, for sure. I'm definitely not perfect. There have been times I've threatened to put her in her room alone (never did it, but I'm still not proud) if she didn't stop crying. That works occasionally. My husband thinks its mean but I'm sleep deprived and near-out of options, and he's no help in the sleep department.

I guess this is just my only hope, so I'm REALLY trying to cling to it! And my husband is pretty anti-dairy. Anytime I give her cheese to snack on he sneers at me, so this will also relieve a little tension between the two of us.
Well, you do what you have to do...you know? It is a lot easier to never yell when you have a somewhat sleeping child...when you have been tortured night by night for YEARS I find it very admirable if you "only" yell occasionally and still dont hit, you know? It is SOOO hard not to virtually throw DS across the room when he has yet another freakout.

Good luck with the dairy part, I really hope that helps, it must be beyong great when something you do actually makes a difference.

Any plans for another baby? I am kind of struggling with that. I would love to have another baby in a way but the thought of going through this AGAIN is just terrifying.
"Any plans for another baby? I am kind of struggling with that. I would love to have another baby in a way but the thought of going through this AGAIN is just terrifying."

I meant to comment on this in my last post, whoops!

I have NO plans for another child, ever, at this point. For many reasons, but this is one of the reasons I know that if I change my mind, I WILL want to wait several years. I could not handle two "babies", kwim? Because she is still very much a baby in many ways. I'd also like a little break in between years of no sleep.

And thank you. I don't really consider myself admirable though, haha. This really effects how I parent during the day. My patience is so thin, almost non-existance. All the things I swore I would do when DD was an infant, like tons of art projects and taking her to the park, etc, I just cannot force myself to do when I've had a few hours of broken sleep at night. This effects her behavior during the day, causing her to be more destructive. So I'm running around cleaning up her messes as she's making them.... it's just a cycle where everything effects everything else. It's hard to figure out which part to fix first.
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And thank you. I don't really consider myself admirable though, haha. This really effects how I parent during the day. My patience is so thin, almost non-existance. All the things I swore I would do when DD was an infant, like tons of art projects and taking her to the park, etc, I just cannot force myself to do when I've had a few hours of broken sleep at night. This effects her behavior during the day, causing her to be more destructive. So I'm running around cleaning up her messes as she's making them.... it's just a cycle where everything effects everything else. It's hard to figure out which part to fix first.

This really struck me. Mama, you are clearly not being the mother you've wanted to be because you are sleep deprived. You've gotten some great input here about food sensitivities, but I also think it's important to realize that solving this aspect of your dd's sleep issues may not lead to a full solution. I think you should also be looking at how/if your responses to her wants and needs may be contributing to her restlessness. Some kids truly do sleep better on their own, even if they express some fear in the beginning. There are gentle ways to parent your child to sleep that don't include CIO, but also include some age appropriate limits on the amount of "help" you will give.

For example, I know that if my dd calls out to me in the night (I can hear her on the monitor) and I go in there, I will be awake for hours. However, if I tell her that she needs to come into my room if she needs me, it actually decreases the frequency of her waking. I think it just becomes not worth it to her to get out of bed. That doesn't mean she's not getting her needs met, it just means she's discriminating and deciding that maybe me handing her her sippy cup that's right next to her bed isn't worth getting out of bed to ask for. There are lots of other suggestions on this forum about gently helping children get to sleep in their own rooms (or in your room, but without you there) as well. Best of luck with this really taxing situation.
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I know exactly what you mean, I apply that reasoning to a lot of other areas of parenting. When I'm feeling especially tired and want to bring her into our bed, I always regret it because she doesn't sleep well in our bed, and that adds to the problem. So I have to remind myself of that. And not really related to the sleeping, but when she wakes up in the morning she's pretty crabby. If I go to her immediately, she'll be whiney all day but if I let her collect herself before she comes downstairs, she's in a pleasant mood. So, I get what you're saying. She doesn't always need me even if she thinks she does.

We are making progress, just very, very slowly. I can see it in little ways, like how the amount of time it takes her to fall asleep at night is getting shorter and shorter. Each day she seems to put up less of a fight. So there is progress when you really look at the details, I just can't FEEL the results yet, kwim?
Lucy has been doing SO much better at night now. She goes down with very little to no problems at all, at least she has in the last week or so. She's still not eating dairy so that is my only guess as to why she's sleeping better. It could be that or just that she's doing better over time, kwim?

She's even been taking NAPS for the past few days!! She WANTS to take naps! I don't have to fight to keep her in the bed, or argue with her. She just lays there and falls asleep (although I still have to be in the room while she's falling asleep). She's napping now!

Also she has been sleeping through the night mostly (or not crying when she wakes up- in that case, I wouldn't notice) and I've been sleeping SO. much. better. I feel so much more motivated to read to and play with her. I don't feel as stressed as I was before. Things aren't perfect yet but I can definitely feel them getting better and it's giving me something to look forward to and work towards.

Thanks so much to everyone, for all your help!! I'm am just ecstatic over these results. I feel like there was a distance forming between us for awhile and this was one of the reasons, now I feel like I have my little girl back.


Now let's hope we can keep this up while my in-laws are here. They get here in a couple of hours.
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