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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
dd, 3 years old, gets very attached to toys she plays with. in the last 2 weeks we had several HUGE i mean HUGE tantrums while leaving a store and not buying her a toy ("the horsie is lonely, she has no friends, i need to take her") (happened twice); and the same kind of thing while trying to leave a playgroup (3 times).

she cries unconsolably and has arguments on why she should take a particular toy. she even has a conversation with the toy, reporting to me that the toy does not want to stay there, does not want to play with other kids, and wants to go home with her.

we have been talking about property, ownership, stealing, buying, money and everything related.

i noticed that when i talk to her beforehand, she is more likely to deal better with the situation, but i know she still gets upset, becauase she will be irritable and cranky for other reasons, even if she controlled herself and did not have a tantrum because of not being able to just 'take' the toy.

sometimes i forget to give her the talk. dh forgets. yesterday he took her to the play area in the hospital while i had my x-rays done, and sure enough, she had a huge tantrum when it was time to leave the toys.

she usually carries her own toy with her, and this does not help to part with the other toys. i have suggested she can 'trade' (sometimes and option) but she is not interested, she wants BOTH. and i see her point.

the thing is that when i forget to warn her about the rules of not taking, it gets bad. maybe i should not forget LOL. but what do i do when i am in the middle of it?

i have a 5 m old in the sling, and i cannot squat to her level because of a knee problem, so i end up talking from above, which i hate, though lately i am able to sit on a chair next to her, if ds is not sceaming in the sling. i usually tell her that she can hug the toy, and make the toy feel better, and then put it back. after 10 min of this, i offer her a choice of me putting it back (in a non threatening way). she is not happy about hte choice. i end up prying it away from her, while trying to talk 'gently' to her, and then dragging her out of the store, because she won't walk, and i cannot carry her.

if this happens after our prior conversation, her tantrum is shorter, she complains, but follows me. if i forget to talk to her, the tantrum gets really bad.

what are the ways of dealing with this behaviour?

i am at the point where i dread going into a store with her. but stores i can avoid, big deal. but when we go to a playgroup (my time to talk to other adults and relax a bit, and she loves it too), i am dreading the closing time. once we stayed there for 2 hours, her screaming on and off.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by annabanana
i am dreading the closing time. once we stayed there for 2 hours, her screaming on and off.
This is the key, I think. Once you have said you are going you have to go. Her tantrums are prob partially a result on her picking up on the fact that if she does this she might get to stay longer.

This is not "bad" or "wrong' on her part. You are telling her that if she really wants to stay, have a tanturm. This in NOT manipulative. Everyone will act in a way that will accomplish their goals. This is the only intelligent thing to do.

I think when you have failed to warn her first, her tantrum is worse because she picks up your guilt and ambivelent feelings on some level or just believes since it was not discussed first she might be able to drag out the leaving.

If you are consistent in giving her a warning and then leaving without arguing (it takes 2 to argue, she can't do this on her own), my guess is over time the tantrums will be reduced and she will feel better also.
 

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I think being proactive is a good idea but I understand that you sometimes forget. My first piece of advice is "don't forget" :LOL .

Okay, other than that my DD used to love to put the other toy to "bed" and blow kisses at it. That was one way we used to deal with it.

You might want to ask DD what would make the transition easier for her, she might offer you some ideas.

Sorry I'm not much help here....
 

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The one time my daughter really still tantrums is when we're leaving places. I warn her ahead of time - "We're going to leave in a little bit." Then, "We're leaving in just a few minutes. Say goodbye to the horsie." Then, "It's time to go now. Goodbye horsie!" If she has a tantrum, I empathize, I verbalize her feelings, but usually when it's time to go it's because we have something else to get to so we still have to leave.

This is improving for us. I don't know if what I'm doing is helping or if she's just outgrowing it.
 

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Well, this is a little cheesy and mine was only 1.5-2 when we did this so your daughter might be too old to go for it, but we'd sort of compare it to something he could reference in his own life...

We'd tell J that the toy loved playing with him and would miss him, but it needed to stay here because this was it's home and if it left it would miss all the other toys it lived with and get homesick, especially when he got too busy to play with it and it was in a new home with all new toys that it didn't know. It worked great with him but the very first time my husband tried it on the youngest (at about a yr old) he rolled his eyes and still wanted to keep the toy, so who knows. I guess it depends on the kid. [I think I'll probably try LoveBeads "bed" idea if we have another problem with Benny.]
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by maya44
This is the key, I think. Once you have said you are going you have to go. Her tantrums are prob partially a result on her picking up on the fact that if she does this she might get to stay longer.
but i just physically can't! if i have Max in the sling, i cannot pick her up and carry her to the subway, and then take the subway -- she is kicking and screaming, and my balance is not very good (i had foot surgery several months ago).

Quote:

Originally Posted by maya44
If you are consistent in giving her a warning and then leaving without arguing (it takes 2 to argue, she can't do this on her own), my guess is over time the tantrums will be reduced and she will feel better also.
we actually stayed OUTSIDE of the building, so it was not like she was left there to play. i managed to carry her out. but i honestly cannot keep on carrying her when she is screaming and kicking.

i feel that my attitude is very consistent. i do not give in. i am restpecful. i empathise, but i am firm. the only thing, i just can't leave like this. simply not safe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by maya44
This is the key, I think. Once you have said you are going you have to go. Her tantrums are prob partially a result on her picking up on the fact that if she does this she might get to stay longer.
but i just physically can't! if i have Max in the sling, i cannot pick her up and carry her to the subway, and then take the subway -- she is kicking and screaming, and my balance is not very good (i had foot surgery several months ago).

Quote:

Originally Posted by maya44
If you are consistent in giving her a warning and then leaving without arguing (it takes 2 to argue, she can't do this on her own), my guess is over time the tantrums will be reduced and she will feel better also.
we actually stayed OUTSIDE of the building, so it was not like she was left there to play. i managed to carry her out. but i honestly cannot keep on carrying her when she is screaming and kicking.

i feel that my attitude is very consistent. i do not give in. i am restpecful. i empathise, but i am firm. the only thing, i just can't leave like this. simply not safe.
 

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If you really can't pick her up then your only option in my book is what I call "active waiting"

After you have empathized ONCE, you simply wait for her to come. Your attitude is that of someone waiting for a bus that is late.

You don't argue with her, you dont' explain again, you dont' discuss how sad it is.

Any comments or questions need to be met SOLELY with a gentle but firm, "we need to go now"
 

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This can be really hard. Rarely does DS leave a train table without tears (although we have an ample train set at home)

Two things that we do is a count down (as you do already). We also say good bye to the toys. DS appreciates this ritual, he will often do it if we forget to initiate it. It also works well at playgrounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveBeads

Okay, other than that my DD used to love to put the other toy to "bed" and blow kisses at it. That was one way we used to deal with it.

this used to work -- put them to bed, kiss them, tell them we will visit them later etc. used to work great. i was so impressed with myself and dd! :LOL

now she has the argument that they do not want to go to bed!
 

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Even without the lure of mysterious objects of desire (as we began to call them when my ds was a tiny baby) transitions are very difficult. It sounds like the problem isn't that the toys are such a draw, but that she is cranky for a variety of other reasons:

Quote:

Originally Posted by annabanana
i noticed that when i talk to her beforehand, she is more likely to deal better with the situation, but i know she still gets upset, becauase she will be irritable and cranky for other reasons, even if she controlled herself and did not have a tantrum because of not being able to just 'take' the toy.
So it's not totally about the toy. It might be a little bit about the new baby, about your suddenly reduced mobility (
sorry about that, hope you are healing okay) or about being three and wanting to control her environment in ways she just can't. She's not a little Kropotkin!

I admire you for your consistency and firmness on this issue. It sounds like your best bet is pre-emptive--discussions of private property, planning ahead to make the transition easier beforehand, etc.

Also cutting yourself slack is good, since you are the mom of a three year old with a five year old nursing in a sling and hurt foot.
 

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I use a sling for my 2 1/2 month old, and my 2 1/2 year old is very prone to trantrums when we're ready to leave certain places (for example, the Children's Museum). I give her "we're leaving in x minutes" warnings, I try to reason with her, etc. Nothing has ever worked. She just throws tantrums, and I figure she just will for a while longer until she grows out of this stage.

I bought a cheap toddler stroller -- one of the $15 dollar deals. Most of the time, I put the diaper bag in it and my toddler pushes it around (she loves this). But during those times when we have to go and she refuses, I do pick her up in one hand (while holding the baby in a sling, pushed to the other side of my body), and put her in the stroller. It takes effort, because she kicks and screams like I'm torturing her. And once she's in, I have to pin her down while I tie the seatbelt around her waist so she can't get out and run for it. i do all this while speaking gently (though that neither calms her nor stifles the looks I sometimes get from other mothers...
). Then we leave, with her straining against the seatbelt and screaming for another 10-15 minutes as we walk down the street.

This is the only thing I can do to prevent her from trantruming all over the place and running from me (screaming) when it's time to go.

So yes, all this happens while the baby is in the sling, pushed to the other side of my body. I don't know how I manage to do this, I just manage somehow.

Funny, none of this bothers me. Tantrums in public have never bothered me (which is good, because she throws a lot of them, doesn't seem to matter WHAT I do or how respectfully I treat her). The only thing that bothers me is when she does this at home, when it's naptime. But that's another story (and another thread...).

Good luck, this too shall pass.
 

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I apologize -- you have a knee problem, so you can't pick up your dd and squat to put her in a stroller. So my previous post is really of no help at all.
Next time I'll read more thoroughly before responding...
:
 

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You can try the "active waiting" approach Maya44 spoke of. To understand it better, you might want to read "Secret of Parenting" by Anthony Wolf.

Another idea is to enlist her help. Some day when things are relatively calm between you two, bring up the subject. Tell her "we have a problem: sometimes when we need to leave places you find it very hard because you are having a nice time...etc....What are some things we could do to make it easier for you to leave?". You might be very surprised at what she comes up with.

As for toys in the store, my DD does not react the way yours does very often, but we started using the terms "visiting" for when we're in a store and she wants to play with something that we won't be taking home with us. It may not work if your child is really set on it though, lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWine
She just throws tantrums, and I figure she just will for a while longer until she grows out of this stage.
i used to think this way, but after coming to this board i am not so sure. :LOL

[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWine
I bought a cheap toddler stroller -- one of the $15 dollar deals. Most of the time, I put the diaper bag in it and my toddler pushes it around (she loves this). But during those times when we have to go and she refuses, I do pick her up in one hand (while holding the baby in a sling, pushed to the other side of my body), and put her in the stroller. It takes effort, because she kicks and screams like I'm torturing her. And once she's in, I have to pin her down while I tie the seatbelt around her waist so she can't get out and run for it. i do all this while speaking gently (though that neither calms her nor stifles the looks I sometimes get from other mothers...
). Then we leave, with her straining against the seatbelt and screaming for another 10-15 minutes as we walk down the street.
we do have a stroller, a $100 one :LOL I am 6 feet tall, and when i hurt my 'sling' shoulder last year and decided to buy a stroller i needed something that would not hurt my back.

i find it is so hard to take it with us! grrrr there are stairs everywhere, i hate taking it to the subway. but i guess i need to rethink my priorites.

what you describe above -- we've had identical episodes, i took the stroller with us twice. i also do this with Max in the sling (i use wraps, though), and it something that seems impossible :LOL but we manage, right?

the public tantrums do not bother me on the emotional level -- i handle it, i don't care what others think. what bothers me is physically unable to lift her, carry, strap her in the stroller....
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWine
I apologize -- you have a knee problem, so you can't pick up your dd and squat to put her in a stroller. So my previous post is really of no help at all.
Next time I'll read more thoroughly before responding...
:
well, i can toss her in the stroller :LOL
i have kind of done that, then leaned with my back to strap her, but this means Max is hanging upside down and not liking it :LOL , being kicked etc.

my knee should be getting better in the next ciuole of months, the say.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by maya44
If you really can't pick her up then your only option in my book is what I call "active waiting"

After you have empathized ONCE, you simply wait for her to come. Your attitude is that of someone waiting for a bus that is late.

You don't argue with her, you dont' explain again, you dont' discuss how sad it is.

Any comments or questions need to be met SOLELY with a gentle but firm, "we need to go now"
okay, will try. i keep repeating things: empathise, explain and repeat these steps over and over again, talking all the time.

hey, i am almost looking forward to a tantrum now, to try it out. :LOL

thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by CJNeeley

We'd tell J that the toy loved playing with him and would miss him, but it needed to stay here because this was it's home and if it left it would miss all the other toys it lived with and get homesick, especially when he got too busy to play with it and it was in a new home with all new toys that it didn't know. It worked great with him but the very first time my husband tried it on the youngest (at about a yr old) he rolled his eyes and still wanted to keep the toy, so who knows. I guess it depends on the kid. [I think I'll probably try LoveBeads "bed" idea if we have another problem with Benny.]
this used to work, for a loooong time, maybe 6-7 months...
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by annabanana
but i just physically can't! if i have Max in the sling, i cannot pick her up and carry her to the subway, and then take the subway -- she is kicking and screaming, and my balance is not very good (i had foot surgery several months ago).
.
How about a double stroller? i am all for baby-wearing, but having a bad back myself I know you are probaly taxing yourself with just the baby- could you put them both in stroller to go on the subway?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by captain optimism
So it's not totally about the toy. It might be a little bit about the new baby, about your suddenly reduced mobility (
sorry about that, hope you are healing okay) or about being three and wanting to control her environment in ways she just can't. She's not a little Kropotkin!
absolutely, i agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain optimism
I admire you for your consistency and firmness on this issue. It sounds like your best bet is pre-emptive--discussions of private property, planning ahead to make the transition easier beforehand, etc.
thanks. i am very flexible on many things, and i would often change my mind with a good argument (maybe that's why she is giving me arguments :LOL , but i still think it is a good thing that she knows i can change my mind) but i have been very consistant and firm about this particular one and a few others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain optimism
Also cutting yourself slack is good, since you are the mom of a three year old with a five year old nursing in a sling and hurt foot.
thanks. i have to remember this.
 
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